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Mad Robbie

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Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
I'm not changing my signature, just the meaning. I was right all along that we have the cattle to win, but we just needed to compete at the breakdown.

The Wallabies are building ominously. Maybe Robbie is a misunderstood genious after all. But what does he say to them at half time? "Respect the black jersey"? "give up now, you can't win"? They need to get Phil Waugh in there and yell at them solidly for 10 minutes.
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
I think he probably told them to kick for possession more in the second half to keep NZ at their own end. But Henry's speech probably went along the lines of "They want to play a tight grinder game? Two can play at that!".
 

minorbird

Tom Lawton (22)
I think the major change was our approach to slow ruck ball from the Blecks. Rather than take it as an opportunity to fan out and let them get clean ball (as the Wallabies have done so since forever) the Wobs just belted whoever was standing over it even if there was no opportunity for us to get it. I think someone mentioned in another thread that Vickerman probably injured all three Blacks backrowers with his brutal (but legal) ruckwork.
This is probably why the All Blacks moved to the pick and go in the second half because the Wallabies couldn't then overcommit to the rucks to slow down the ball because the ABs didn't have to wait for their backline to realign before moving to the next phase.
I also think Pocock and Elsom were instrumental in all this because they were getting to most rucks and slowing it down so much during that first half that the Blecks just couldn't get on the front foot at all. Good stuff.
 

Toddy

Chris McKivat (8)
You can't blame the Wallabies for looking flat in the 2nd half. They put in such an intense effort in the 1st forty they were always going to run low on juice. No team can play 80mins of rugby like that. I can't remember ever seeing a wallaby side play like that before. It really was awesome to watch even though it was my team taking the battering.
 
N

Newter

Guest
You can't blame the Wallabies for looking flat in the 2nd half. They put in such an intense effort in the 1st forty they were always going to run low on juice. No team can play 80mins of rugby like that. I can't remember ever seeing a wallaby side play like that before. It really was awesome to watch even though it was my team taking the battering.

Last time I saw this intensity from the Wallabies was probably 2007, when we very nearly won in South Africa for the first time in years. George Smith's rush defence was direct and brutal.

We don't see it often enough. Maybe the Horwill era is the beginning of a beautiful new hatred for the opposition?
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
I actually thought this game reminded me a lot of Robbie Deans' first game against NZ as coach when we beat them in Sydney.
 

Sandpit Fan

Nev Cottrell (35)
You can't blame the Wallabies for looking flat in the 2nd half. They put in such an intense effort in the 1st forty they were always going to run low on juice. No team can play 80mins of rugby like that. I can't remember ever seeing a wallaby side play like that before. It really was awesome to watch even though it was my team taking the battering.

I reckon they haven't played with that much spirit since the 2003 semi against you guys. Brilliant to watch.
 

Jnor

Peter Fenwicke (45)
I actually thought this game reminded me a lot of Robbie Deans' first game against NZ as coach when we beat them in Sydney.

I hope that doesn't mean we're about to lose another 10 in a row against the ABs
 

Crow

Jimmy Flynn (14)
He had a learning experience, grew a lot and then played what was in front of him.
At this rate, Scarfie could be playing in the Lions squad.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
I'm not changing my signature, just the meaning. I was right all along that we have the cattle to win, but we just needed to compete at the breakdown. The Wallabies are building ominously. Maybe Robbie is a misunderstood genious after all. But what does he say to them at half time? "Respect the black jersey"? "give up now, you can't win"? They need to get Phil Waugh in there and yell at them solidly for 10 minutes.

My RD progress assessment post Saturday:

- first, one game may or may not be the beginning of the right, positive trend, but the trend needs to be well-formed before that's clear. The win last Saturday was excellent (more below), but there have been far too many false dawns before this and optimistic claims that upward curves were starting when they weren't.

- second, the Test win on Saturday passed exceptionally well my 'best test of a Wallaby upward trend'; namely to win against a team playing excellently for most of the match (irrespective of which team that is). That is what this was, and what we have achieved very little of in the RD era (hence we have often flattered to deceive). This win was way more impressive and potentially milestone-making than HKG, a game I still consider of tentative improvement marker value only (which was confirmed v Samoa and v ABs in Auckland). This game was no dead rubber on neutral soil with Carter off and Donald making major blunders. This was full-on ABs, with even many specially rested top players coming back, etc. The key marker as Scarfie says was the very impressive Wallaby forwards success in dominance in 1H combined with the sustained mental strength and clear S&C fitness to recover from AB dominance/recovery/score catch-up in 3Q and for the Wallabies to dominate and win the crucial 4Q. This match-winning combination - versus an excellent AB team playing very well overall - is almost a first in the RD era (and ditto the post 2003 Wallaby era come to that). Highly impressive, it spoke its own name. Just wonderful to see so many of the Suncorp crowd staying to await the players' laps post game and standing, clapping them, and the standing ovations at half-time.

- third, IMO the 'better late than never' RD changes to the team - forced and unforced - wrt Horwill as Captain, A Fainga'a in, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to wing, Vickerman in, Samo starting, Elsom mentally unchained, etc, were key to this win. Deans is to be credited for shocking me with the consumption of a highly potent anti-stubborness drug and returning a more flexible, creative coach than he's been in a quite a time (good, full bench use another big benefit of this drug). (The huge irony of the moment being of course that, with the exception of Genia, the hyped young Xs are not having a great Tests-of-2011 at all. The Horwills, Vickermans, Samos, Moores, etc, even Rocky, are delivering more in clumps of impressive skill and intensity as this season progresses than most of the Xs.)

- four, back to the forwards. It's clear from multiple accounts that (in addition to his own high ambition) Nucifora was principally brought into the Wallaby fold to compensate for Williams' years-long and obvious failure as Forwards coach. Whatever Nuci has done, it's miles better than what went before, and, paradoxically, it's almost as if our forwards are at last achieving higher standards of consistent play than our backs - how very rarely can that be said of Wallaby land! Credit to RD for (tentatively) fixing the forwards situation, again, much better late than not.

- five, both Link and RD are both criticisable for not putting in place the combination of sports psychology and continuous kicking coaching skills essential to make QC (Quade Cooper) a high 70s%/low 80s% kicker. He has not improved in 24 months, and if anything is getting marginally worse. The very last failure on Saturday could easily have been a game-loser. His chronic bad hook can be fixed I reckon, and, just as Scotty has astutely noted, I also reckon he gets anxious when in non-instinctive 'still' moments at the tee, and this also can likely be fixed with the right professional help.

- six, what is it with the Wallabies that they NEVER can ensure all aspects of play be optimal for even a consistent 20 mins? How, after weeks of training and calls practice and 4 locks and loads of coaches, and with Moore a good line out thrower, could the line out be as hopelessly poor was it was for much of Saturday? Could have easily gifted ABs tries as such consistent errors have in the past. This orchestra never manages (as yet) to be able to play out a complete symphony; if it's a wonderful night for violins, the brass must be off-key, and then it can reverse just as easily and unpredictably. The talent of enough sections masks the absence of all.

- seven, what I and others yearn for is for these types of victories not having to be preceded by disasters (Samoa) and 'lessons learned the hard way, and now we understand what we're doing wrong' BC-losing kicks up the arse a la Auckland. Can we have some results like this that do not require large sequences of masochistic conduct resulting in angry headlines and 'going up the learning curve'. It's surely time FFS to grow up both team and coaches and prepare effectively for what almost anyone could predict will be the challenges of each team we face - we've been facing most of them for years.

Summary: in year 4 of 4, RD is showing commendable new attributes, making some v good decisions, and improving his management of the team and the team. More to go though, much more to prove. But now IMO we have a rational basis for hope, based upon the coupling of the SA win and this last one.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
I think the issue of personnel needs to be considered too. I know a few have posted that we have "had the cattle" for a few years, but I think that is a bit simplistic.
In the front row, although we don't have Robbo, we have played a consistent lineup for several Tests without injury issues, with good players in TPN and Slipper to come back. we have not had this luxury much in past years.
We have 2-3 really good, and another very decent lock. Remember, Horwill has been out a lot in past years, Sharpe was not playing well 3 years ago, Vickerman was gone. Remember Chisolm and Mumm?
Backrow sees 2 proven performers in Pocock and Rocky, with the latter getting better, and Samo providing a real option as a big bopper, where it looked like we had none. Look at the back-rowers who are missing out at the moment.
Genia and Cooper are a settled combo - no chop and change options, though I'll grant a lot of the problems in past years have been due to indecision in selection as much as anything.
Wings and centres are still here and there a bit, but again we have some stability, and are less harmed by injury anyway.
Beale is set (in my mind).
I think we have a consistent and solid set of players now that we have lacked a lot in the past 4 years.
It doesn't excuse some of the oddities in that time with persistent selections that didn't work, and the mystery of the bench. But it does make it easier.
 

Richo

John Thornett (49)
Bang on, Cyclo. The price we paid for injury and youth over the last few years was significant, but we might just be starting to see the benefits -- and not a moment too soon.

Also, a bit of competition for places is always good. Leaving out good players is a great problem to have.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
Who would have thought that we could win the 3N with:

- a 35 year no. 8
- a captaincy change in the middle of it
- a no. 6 and previous captain who basically hadn't played for a year
- Alexander at THP
- several lock switches (all of which being the lineout caller)
- a flake at 10
- a brilliant 15 that wasn't playing his best
- and two thought about previously as dire centres?

Not to mention, without:

- Nau
- Sharpe
- Palu
- Slipper
- Barnes
- Giteau
- Mitchell

If I said that to you a year or so ago, you would have laughed at me!
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
Bang on, Cyclo. The price we paid for injury and youth over the last few years was significant, but we might just be starting to see the benefits -- and not a moment too soon.

Also, a bit of competition for places is always good. Leaving out good players is a great problem to have.

And we are now in a position where a few injuries might not totally destroy us. As long as those injuries aren't to 7 or 9.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Who would have thought that we could win the 3N with:

- a 35 year no. 8
- a captaincy change in the middle of it
- a no. 6 and previous captain who basically hadn't played for a year
- Alexander at THP
- several lock switches (all of which being the lineout caller)
- a flake at 10
- a brilliant 15 that wasn't playing his best
- and two thought about previously as dire centres?

Not to mention, without:

- Nau
- Sharpe
- Palu
- Slipper
- Barnes
- Giteau
- Mitchell

If I said that to you a year or so ago, you would have laughed at me!

Do you know though Scotty, IMO one of the truest things you ever noted was along the lines of: '...the most effective and successful teams are not necessarily the ones comprised of solely the 'very best' players, oftentimes the best teams are comprised of the right players that will make up the best team...' and highlighting IMO a very important point re selection strategy at its core.

Back in early 2010, you'd never have said of the Reds that here was the population of a team that in 15 months would win an S15 (or many of us wouldn't have). The complex and productive blend of this group's skills etc proved crucial, they were never a team of all-stars by any stretch.
 
A

antipodean

Guest
- second, the Test win on Saturday passed exceptionally well my 'best test of a Wallaby upward trend'; namely to win against a team playing excellently for most of the match (irrespective of which team that is).
Just quietly I was at the game and there is no way the All Blacks could be considered to be playing excellently in the first half. Unless by excellently you mean utter shite.
 

Hardtackle

Charlie Fox (21)
Good stuff Reds Happy. All well reasoned arguments.

I think the change of on field leadership to Horwill will prove the most critical change made by RD (and presumably the board). Kev is a player with very few faults. He has the respect of all the players and he's a likeable lump. Clearly he has a great relationship with Genia and QC (Quade Cooper) who are the leaders in the backs. I also think that the inclusion of Vickerman and his no prisoners attitude is critical. He lined everyone up before the game and gave them a gobfull of "bash the fuckers" invective. When I saw that, it reminded me of the look on the boys faces when the anthem was going down in the 03.

Now all we need is our share of luck.
 
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