Macqueen past his used by date?

[Gagger]

I remember Link saying every coach needs a coupla years to get a team to his liking?

 

[RugbyFuture]

The Rebels are doomed. We were stretching things with 4 teams. 5 is ridiculous. Can't blame Macqueen for lacking a magic fucking wand.

anyone who complains about lack of depth etc have very short term minds and are ignoring the commercialized nature of the modern game. In the long term it provides greater opportunity, meaning a development of greater depth, in the short term the team hasn't really taken anyone who was wanted in the first place.

 

[dobduff11]

Aus do have the depth for 5 teams, its just that lots of young players are stacked up at the Reds and Tahs.

The reds academy atm has Morahan L, Toua, Tapuai, S Morahan, J Butler, Anae, Situati, Shipperey, Prior, Lance and Lucas. If these young players along with Lilo, Woodhouse, Safoloi, Gill, Quirk, Crook, were spread across the franchises evenly then things would appear a little rosier.

I'm not suggesting a draft thing as whoever produces the youngsters should have first dibs but the Rebels will have a better opportunity to lure up and coming aus talents over to melbourne in the next couple of years when these guys contracts run out.

They recruited quite poorly after their initial signings, no offence but Hilgendorf, Cordingley and Rooney aren't the most exciting backs and they could have done with a couple more stars.

They need some big signings for next year maybe Digby or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), a well established Wallaby to get players into their system. Just like the force did with Gits.


Good luck Rebels and Macqueen but you have a hard task ahead of you

 

[Moses]

The Rebels can also be proud in knowing they have the best fanbase of all the franchises...

And I'm not referring to the numbers, but the crowds down there that come out to the games and whether they win, lose or draw they make a hell of a noise and get behind their team...

It's a breath of fresh air amongst Australian rugby supporters where crowds are subdued and boring... or like the pathetic Tahs fans who boo their own team...

I know you said it's not about numbers, which is fortunate as 11,290 fans who saw the loss to the Tahs didn't see the win against the Brumbies.

Tahs 25524
Brumbies 14,234
Sharks 15126

 

[fatprop]

Mcqueen doesn't coach, he manages, he has two of the best young coaches in the country down there doing the day to day.

Just look at their starting side and consider who would be a certain starter at the other franchises

 

[Gnostic]

Rod recruited the team - ignored the Beau Robinsons etc and plumped for seasoned, average players. He appointed all the staff, flew around the world spruiking the CREED of REBELS, told the world about the culture he was building. He took both the Head Coaching Job and the Rugby Director position and both pay packets so i would say his finger prints are all over it. Cant hide in history now he has been associated from the start and no one twisted his arm to do it

The same can be said for all the other Oz super coaches. Your selective memory fails to recognise that Robinson himself didn't have a full contract until last week and if the Reds had been able to hold onto Braid he wouldn't have one now. Name the seasoned "average" players apart from Huxley and Cordingly. The rest are new and haven't been tried really or up and comers in the second seasons.

Surely nobody can say that Morty is a seasoned "average" player. When he plays where he should be at 13 he is still in the top 3 in Oz IMO and I hope he can get his pace and "explosiveness" back because he will again be the undisputed No1 13.

I have to laugh at people who say the game has passed coaches and players by. It may be quicker (in some games) but it is still the same game. The same set moves will work if the execution is there. The same skills are required. The only additional requirement is the fitness which is a much higher level and has been steadily increasing and evolving since 1991 IMO.

I think Macqueen has done a very good job so far. He made a few selection mistakes in the first game against the Tahs with Vuna at 12 and Huxley at 15, these were corrected in the next two games and we saw a close loss that could easily have been a victory in what was a very good game, and we saw a controversial victory in which the Brumbies were outpayed by a basic well executed game plan. Unfortunately Gerrard was broken and Macqueen had little choice but to return to Huxley at 15 and move Mitchell to 13. A good analysis of the Reds game will show that Huxley was unable to clear the ball effectively from the back and his kicks did not find touch or resulted in quick throws pinning the Rebels down for long periods. The fact that Huxley offers no real counter attack threat from the back allowed the Reds surety with their kicking game. Yes hindsight is a great thing, and we can say Macqueen made a mistake with Huxley at 15 and using the game plan which had the surety of Gerrard's clearing from the back. It was predictable to a certain degree but on the other hand Huxley should have been able to step up to the task, as he is after all a Wallaby. In that game as well the Reds showed that they are a much stronger team than the Brumbies and were able to thoroughly control the game with some effective running and even better tactical kicking by QC (Quade Cooper).

 

[Scarfman]

Most of this thread is ridiculous. Far too soon for anything.

The only thing we can hold him accountable for so far is recruiting. I was surprised by the roster, and in particular, by the inability to secure any current Wallabies.

 

[Gnostic]

No real surprise Scarfy, very few of the current Wallabies were uncontracted last year. Who was there last year that wasn't already in a contract AND who really was looking to move?

There are plenty who were due to renew their contract this year, but that is one year too late.

I'm quite impressed by the results the Rebels have got so far.

 

[Slim 293]

Just to add to gnostic's points -

It's also a bit of a risky move to join a new club in a RWC year...

 

[daz]

I agree with Gnostic and Slim's thoughts on this. Having said that, I do recall the Rebs trumpeting the "roster to beat all rosters" during the start-up phase where every top shelf player was supposedly kicking the door down to sign with the Rebs, and then feeling it was all a bit of an anti-climax when the roster was finally announced.

Apart from offering new blood a chance to get on a S15 roster where they might not have previously had the chance, I do like the opportunties the Rebels are offering fringe or ex-Wallabies. Guys like Freier, Huxley, Gerrard, Weeks, Byrnes, Mortlock, etc can get regular game time and push for national selection. I don't think Deans will mind having another playing group to look at, regardless of whether he uses them or not.

 

[Gnostic]

I agree with Gnostic and Slim's thoughts on this.

FFS Daz stop stalking me.

 

[daz]

FFS Daz stop stalking me.

Well, stop posting comments that I agree with......

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

MacQueen is fine and should be given more time to prove himself with the Rebels. If I'm building a new team from scratch, I can't think of a coach anywhere in OZ who I would rather do the job. The depth of Aussie rugby is being stretched (just like it did with the Force), but good will come of this. Look at some of the young fellas who have come through the Force system or who have been given a chance. The same will be the case for the Rebels. If we want to grow the game in Australia, it must be done this way and take the short term pain.

 

[Gnostic]

I would take Bob Dwyer as a head coach, Alec Evans or Foley in charge of the Pigs and bring back Mooney for the backs. Campo to consult, and a dedicated full time kicking coach, probably somebody from AFL as I have significant doubts about those filling the roles at the various Oz provinces and at national level.

From overseas you could ask Gaffney, Chieka, Lane, Williams, and a few others.

 

[Red Rooster]

I remember Link saying every coach needs a coupla years to get a team to his liking?

Link was talking about inheriting the team (as he has had to do) - not when you recruit all the players yourself - big difference

 

[Gnostic]

Link was talking about inheriting the team (as he has had to do) - not when you recruit all the players yourself - big difference

Alright Link should be judged solely on the results we see this year since the influence of Mooney has pretty much been removed now. So what are they (results) actually? What players have stepped up and who has regressed? Has the game plan developed effectively or are they going backwards? In what areas? Are the selections correct for each game and the prevailing conditions?

I know what my answers are and they might not be the ones you think.

 

[Red Rooster]

The same can be said for all the other Oz super coaches. Your selective memory fails to recognise that Robinson himself didn't have a full contract until last week and if the Reds had been able to hold onto Braid he wouldn't have one now. Name the seasoned "average" players apart from Huxley and Cordingly. The rest are new and haven't been tried really or up and comers in the second seasons.

Surely nobody can say that Morty is a seasoned "average" player. When he plays where he should be at 13 he is still in the top 3 in Oz IMO and I hope he can get his pace and "explosiveness" back because he will again be the undisputed No1 13.

I have to laugh at people who say the game has passed coaches and players by. It may be quicker (in some games) but it is still the same game. The same set moves will work if the execution is there. The same skills are required. The only additional requirement is the fitness which is a much higher level and has been steadily increasing and evolving since 1991 IMO.

I think Macqueen has done a very good job so far. He made a few selection mistakes in the first game against the Tahs with Vuna at 12 and Huxley at 15, these were corrected in the next two games and we saw a close loss that could easily have been a victory in what was a very good game, and we saw a controversial victory in which the Brumbies were outpayed by a basic well executed game plan. Unfortunately Gerrard was broken and Macqueen had little choice but to return to Huxley at 15 and move Mitchell to 13. A good analysis of the Reds game will show that Huxley was unable to clear the ball effectively from the back and his kicks did not find touch or resulted in quick throws pinning the Rebels down for long periods. The fact that Huxley offers no real counter attack threat from the back allowed the Reds surety with their kicking game. Yes hindsight is a great thing, and we can say Macqueen made a mistake with Huxley at 15 and using the game plan which had the surety of Gerrard's clearing from the back. It was predictable to a certain degree but on the other hand Huxley should have been able to step up to the task, as he is after all a Wallaby. In that game as well the Reds showed that they are a much stronger team than the Brumbies and were able to thoroughly control the game with some effective running and even better tactical kicking by QC (Quade Cooper).

Seasoned average players - Blake, Henderson, Campbell, Robinson, Mitchell, Sipa, Rooney, O'Neill, Chamberlain, Mcdonald - thats 1/3 of the squad without really trying

 

[Red Rooster]

Alright Link should be judged solely on the results we see this year since the influence of Mooney has pretty much been removed now. So what are they (results) actually? What players have stepped up and who has regressed? Has the game plan developed effectively or are they going backwards? In what areas? Are the selections correct for each game and the prevailing conditions?

I know what my answers are and they might not be the ones you think.

You are so clever you should have applied for the job. I can see a team who won 8 games last season, who are now 3 from 4 and have broken record scores last year and this year, broken hoodoo in Canberra and beat Crusaders for first time, Won both trial games (Mooney never won even a trial game and no more than three games in a season). 1/3 of the squad was changed and now there is suddenly depth - Proof will be at the end. I am sure Link won't be around for ever so Mooney can come back and finish the job - did he win a game with Otago by the way or has he become the "co-coach"? Why does Link have to be judged 'solely on this years results'? Everyone blamed Connelly and Jones for Robbie Deans inheritance. Why does Hickey and Foley get credit for the tahs when they are still using 80% of the players Link signed. If you dont like Link fine but just say it

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I would take Bob Dwyer as a head coach, Alec Evans or Foley in charge of the Pigs and bring back Mooney for the backs. Campo to consult, and a dedicated full time kicking coach, probably somebody from AFL as I have significant doubts about those filling the roles at the various Oz provinces and at national level.

From overseas you could ask Gaffney, Chieka, Lane, Williams, and a few others.

Bob is a very fine coach with an enviable record, no doubt. MacQueen's record is even better. I would actually like to see Bob given a role by the ARU where he works with the younger blokes at either schoolboy or academy level and drill the fundamentals of the game into them. He seems to have a real passion for that.

With respect to the overseas coaches, I would certainly like to see Gaffney, Lane and Cheika coaching down here again.

 

[daz]

Bob is a very fine coach with an enviable record, no doubt. MacQueen's record is even better. I would actually like to see Bob given a role by the ARU...

Agree in principle BH, but junior and club footy in the 5 Oz provinces are so political and independant you would have no hope of tying them together under one umbrella.

We have a high performance manager at the ARU who deals with S15/Wallaby player development, contracts, etc, but maybe a more pertinent question is: Do we have a guy within the ARU who scours the Oz regions identifying and developing coaches? If not, maybe we should.