Lions v Brumbies in Johannesburg, Sunday 1.15am AEST

[Brumbieman]

Mayhew gives away a stupid free kick when we had possession and on attack, puts us under pressure then Valetini goes down and we let in a try with 12 men in the game.

Then another soft try - everyone is knackered now. Not fit enough.


I thought Muirhead was excellent tonight, and Lealiifano and TK. Godwin was meh again, and we we rudderless after Lilo went off. Banks was great too. Gutted about Valetini, that looked like a bad one.

 

[Brumbieman]

Was it two yellows or yellow and a straight red?

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A yellow first, then a red. The second was red regardless of his earlier yellow, he might get a few weeks.

 

[Shiggins]

For a saffer to answer

What's with the terrible crowds in South Africa when they are playing better then the last 2 years. Are people pissed out them cutting cheetahs and king's ?

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[Shiggins]

Question. The lions second try. Isn't that a truck and trailer? Surley as soon as one lions player in front breaks away from the origional maul it's a Brumbies penalty ?

If not they need to look at the laws. You shouldn't be able to break away from other players in the maul and not have it be called obstruction. Some teams do this a lot.

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[Shiggins]

Lilo has been tackled late and hard all game. Happens once against the Brumbies and it's a penalty ? And it was after an obvious scrum penalty to the Brumbies went unpaid. Shame.

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[Shiggins]

Red card to Arnold was a shame. It's not late. But it's a massive guy trying to get as low as possible. this is ruining the game. I'm not sure what they can do to fix it. Maybe not alowed to make dominant tackles anymore ?only aloud to tackle around the waste and legs ? Or we need to look at intent.

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[Shiggins]

This ref gets worse and worse.
The turnover in the 77th min he dives on the ball off his feet then throws it while he is on the ground.

Both yellow cards from maul penalties were harsh. One after one penalty. The second one would of been fair if it was the first card for that type of penalty.

Brumbies are probably the better side with 15men on the field and deserved a win for most of the game.

Arnold's red card shouldn't be a red card but ref had no choice

The scrum was weird. Dominant Brumbies pushes went un rewarded and some bizarre penalties allways out the lions on the front foot.

Godwin gets spear tackled in the last play. Goes unnoticed by the ref and tmo

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[Braveheart81]

Red card to Arnold was a shame. It's not late. But it's a massive guy trying to get as low as possible. this is ruining the game. I'm not sure what they can do to fix it. Maybe not alowed to make dominant tackles anymore ?only aloud to tackle around the waste and legs ? Or we need to look at intent.

He has hit him flush in the head with his shoulder with impact.

The onus is on Arnold not to do that. There is nothing stopping him making a big tackle. If he tries to tackle any player hard with relatively high contact he is always going to run the risk of going too high. There is nothing stopping him making a lower tackle. It's rubbish to suggest he can't tackle lower than that.

I don't think World Rugby really have a choice not to act in trying to reduce the number of concussion causing events in the game given everything that is now known about repeated head knocks.

 

[Shiggins]

He has hit him flush in the head with his shoulder with impact.

The onus is on Arnold not to do that. There is nothing stopping him making a big tackle. If he tries to tackle any player hard with relatively high contact he is always going to run the risk of going too high. There is nothing stopping him making a lower tackle. It's rubbish to suggest he can't tackle lower than that.

I don't think World Rugby really have a choice not to act in trying to reduce the number of concussion causing events in the game given everything that is now known about repeated head knocks.

Watch it again. Arnold's is really low. Janquies goes lower before the hit as well. There is no intention to shoulder him in the head. The only way for Arnold not to have that happen is to tackle around the waste or legs. If he aims for the chest and the attacker drops while his head is down away so he doesn't knock himself out (he can't see it and stop or change angle ) what is he supposed to do? If he aims for the waste he would of hit him on the chest.

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[Braveheart81]

Watch it again. Arnold's is really low.

View attachment 9926

I'm not sure how you consider that low. The point of contact must be close to 1.5m off the ground.

Question. The lions second try. Isn't that a truck and trailer? Surley as soon as one lions player in front breaks away from the origional maul it's a Brumbies penalty ?

If not they need to look at the laws. You shouldn't be able to break away from other players in the maul and not have it be called obstruction. Some teams do this a lot.

It's fine. The Lions' players at the head of the maul that are in contact with Brumbies players particularly the Lions player in headgear is still at the head of the maul when it goes over the line.

The fact that they have wheeled it around making some of the Brumbies players ineffective is skillful play by them.

Effectively half the Brumbies drive is against the wrong part of the maul so they end up pushing against no one.

 

[Shiggins]

The guy is over 2m tall. So he has ducked over half a meter. That's low. U can see janquies knees are bent a lot.

With the maul. Once the lions player at the front disengaged from the maul and takes out a Brumbies defender isn't that obstruction. How is it the same maul is he has detached ?
What is truck and trailer then ?

View attachment 9926

I'm not sure how you consider that low. The point of contact must be close to 1.5m off the ground.



It's fine. The Lions' players at the head of the maul that are in contact with Brumbies players particularly the Lions player in headgear is still at the head of the maul when it goes over the line.

The fact that they have wheeled it around making some of the Brumbies players ineffective is skillful play by them.

Effectively half the Brumbies drive is against the wrong part of the maul so they end up pushing against no one.

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[Braveheart81]

The guy is over 2m tall. So he has ducked over half a meter. That's low. U can see janquies knees are bent a lot.

With the maul. Once the lions player at the front disengaged from the maul and takes out a Brumbies defender isn't that obstruction. How is it the same maul is he has detached ?
What is truck and trailer then ?

Let's agree to disagree on the first one. His point of contact is not at all low. You are going to collect plenty of players in the head if you tackle that high.

There was a good example of obstruction from a maul in the Waratahs game with a disallowed Waratahs try. Truck and trailer is when an attacker who is not in contact with one of the defenders (and not the ball carrier) breaks off from the original maul and then comes in contact with a defender and the ball carrier is behind them.

In the Lions example at least one Lions forward that was is on contact with Brumbies defenders is still at the head of the maul when it goes over the line. Hence same maul.

 

[Shiggins]

Let's agree to disagree on the first one. His point of contact is not at all low. You are going to collect plenty of players in the head if you tackle that high.

There was a good example of obstruction from a maul in the Waratahs game with a disallowed Waratahs try. Truck and trailer is when an attacker who is not in contact with one of the defenders (and not the ball carrier) breaks off from the original maul and then comes in contact with a defender and the ball carrier is behind them.

In the Lions example at least one Lions forward that was is on contact with Brumbies defenders is still at the head of the maul when it goes over the line. Hence same maul.

I can't watch it again now. I guess as long as a Brumbies player was attached to the player that broke away it's ok then. If no Brumbies oalyer was attached to him it's truck and trailer.

I don't see how Arnold could of got any lower while trying to make a dominant tackle on the chest. It's big man on little man and it often ends like this. And a red card ruins the game. I don't think it's the wrong call by the law now. But I think it needs to change or they need to look at intent. It's not black and white.

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[Braveheart81]

I don't see how Arnold could of got any lower while trying to make a dominant tackle on the chest. It's big man on little man and it often ends like this. And a red card ruins the game. I don't think it's the wrong call by the law now. But I think it needs to change or they need to look at intent. It's not black and white.

This is a baffling idea. A big man trying to smash a little man shouldn't be red carded if they just about remove someone's head from their shoulders because they didn't intend to hit them in the head?

It doesn't often end up like this. There have been two red cards for high tackles all season. Only one of them was big man on little man.

 

[Brumby Jack]

If you haven't seen the whole game, just prior to this incident Arnold got someone else late (possibly high) so if this incident didn't get shown the previous one very well might have.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I'm going to guess a medium entry for

Dangerous tackling of an Opponent including a tackle or attempted tackle above the line of the shoulders even if the tackle starts below the line of the shoulders

Which is 6 weeks.

Half time for good behaviour gets him 3 weeks.

Misses first Ireland test

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[Slim 293]

There was also a bit of drama in the Saffer studios...

FORMER South Africa winger Ashwin Willemse stormed out of a live Super Rugby TV show Saturday, saying he was “undermined” and “patronised” by fellow analysts Nick Mallett and Naas Botha.

The incident happened as the trio were reviewing a match in which Golden Lions defeated ACT Brumbies 42-24 at Ellis Park in Johannesburg.
Asked to comment on the game, Willemse said “he cannot work with people who undermine other people”.

He also spoke of being called a “quota” Springbok, referring to a defunct system that ensured a certain number of black players were chosen for national teams.
Willemse added on air that he “refused to be patronised by two individuals who played in an apartheid/segregated era.”

https://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/undermined-patronised-former-springbok-ashwin-willemse-storms-off-tv-show/news-story/20c1b87ad1368df79c3188c0a06c011b

Video ^^^

 

[Derpus]

The Arnold red card

View attachment 9926

Thats super duper bad. Couldve caused jantjies serious damage. Deserves to sit out the Irish series.

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[Ulrich]

For a saffer to answer

What's with the terrible crowds in South Africa when they are playing better then the last 2 years. Are people pissed out them cutting cheetahs and king's ?

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Too much rugby. Been cold of late so that probably doesn't help but isn't the main reason for empty stands.

I think most of us are in a mindset where we don't bother too much because we won't be winning the competition this year and the teams are so inconsistent. Plus a bit of "Let's wait and see how the Boks go to see whether there has been improvement".

Better things to do really, have a braai and drinks with some mates for example and check your Superbru on the Sunday or Monday.

 

[Shiggins]

This is a baffling idea. A big man trying to smash a little man shouldn't be red carded if they just about remove someone's head from their shoulders because they didn't intend to hit them in the head?

It doesn't often end up like this. There have been two red cards for high tackles all season. Only one of them was big man on little man.

Correct. Janquies was ok. Big bloke did his best to get low. Janquies went very low. It's bad luck. Play on. Don't be pussies. This is rugby

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