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Lions Tour 2013

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Wales Fan

Alfred Walker (16)
Oh yes and if you want to get going on xenophobic and insular lets start talking about the Welsh reaction to St Sam's correct dismissal in the World Cup. Haven't noticed any death threats against Gatland yet Cardiffblue.

It wasn't the dismissal that bothered me but the fact that every time a similar or worse tackle has happened since it's been a yellow card. Consistency is all that people ask for surely.

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the plastic paddy

John Solomon (38)
Totally agree, but there have been a few occasions when the lifters and jumper are at full stretch and the ball is still thrown a good foot over the jumpers hands - that's a shit throw.
Don't you think the need for a lineout option at the tail has been negated slightly by the poor throwing form of all three hookers.
There's always more to these things, but overthrown or crooked throws are generally (not always) a hookers mistake. Same as a poor pass or crooked feed by a scrum half.

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Agree that the hookers are part of the problem but my main point really is that I think it is nearly impossible for a team to compete without a line out and I don't think it is possible to scratch one together in a couple of weeks.
 

the plastic paddy

John Solomon (38)
It wasn't the dismissal that bothered me but the fact that every time a similar or worse tackle has happened since it's been a yellow card. Consistency is all that people ask for surely.

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I could not agree more but that was not Rolland's fault then and it hasn't been since. But he was the fella who had threats made against his life. The funny thing is that you never see a tip/ spear tackle when Rolland is reffing, funnily enough.
 

Dai bando

Charlie Fox (21)
Yep consistency is all we ask, Warbs does a tip tackle gets mullerd for it Horwill stamps on a players face, he's a saint,:confused:
 

Dai bando

Charlie Fox (21)
Dai, I'd have Hibbard, Jones, AWJ, Faletau, North, Halfpenny and Tipuric in my test team.

Warburton did have a good second test but an awful lot of game time was invested in him, for example if Tipuric had been afforded the same opportunity how do we know he wouldn't have produced two test winning performances given IMO he is a better openside than Warburton? For me its about risk/reward and Gatland took a massive risk placing all his eggs in the Warburton basket, it took to the second test for it to come off, and as soon as it did he got injured.

Every squad member was given a game yes but there were some who got a lot more leeway than others in terms of their performances. Lydiate and Warburton were probably the worst 2 back rows in the warm ups but have 4 test starts and a subs appearance between them. Roberts has been the worst of the 4 centres on tour but as soon as he is fit he is straight into the test team. Would you not agree that given the evidence Gatland, Howley, Rowntree and Farrell had their test team picked a long time ago and form on tour hasn't been recognized? I will caveat that by saying Heaslip was one of Warrens chosen 15
Tips is not as good as warbs, different types of 7s sure but today when the breakdown is king you need a 7 who can get to it and stay on his feet, tips is more of a link man very quick, but not the strongest over the ball. As for Davies I agree could well have been someone else, Roberts was always going to get the test spot, Lydiate suites the game plan gats brings to the table, will tackle anyone around the fringes allowing the 7/8 to come in for the steal, As for Phillips did not have his best performance in the first test , But the aussies did a number on him, which he fell right into, he will be more aware now and if the aussies concentrate on him will leave the midfield open to attack, which will suit gatlands game plan,
 

Cardiffblue

Jim Lenehan (48)
If by some miracle your Lions win tomorrow I will be looking forward to all the modesty and self effacement evident in this post that will be emanating from the principality. Fortunately a Welsh victory is probably as likely as on the last seven occasions you have played Australia. Gatland has been a truly great Lions coach, any chance he can do the next tour to New Zealand?
Mate, you've lost the plot. It's a game. the greatest game of all. Win or lose I'm enjoying it. Shame that you are not. Been through enough bad times with Wales to realise that it's not life and death. You need to take a step back and realise it too. Dont know what happened in Sept last year but whatever it was, I would be questioning whether your lonely furrow is worth ploughing
 

Cardiffblue

Jim Lenehan (48)
Leon McDonald's view

Sentimentality is for the clubhouse
Don’t worry, we can see the Irish eyes from here and we know they are not smiling. Nor is the England Chariot sweet or the Flower of Scotland in bloom. In Wales it’s a different story, because let’s face it, an under-pressure coach has done what every under-pressure coach in rugby history has done: he’s picked what he knows, and what he knows is Welsh rugby.

It may seem like a bombshell – and for every reason other than form, I guess it is – but the axing of Brian O’Driscoll is no real surprise unless you think test series are won on fairy tales. They are not, they are won on ability, they are won on moments and they are won on match ups. People may well be asking themselves, “Surely you would play O’Driscoll in the decider?” My answer to that is, last week was a decider too, and O’Driscoll had his moment in Melbourne.

As a player, I hated the notion of being dropped. I never had to feel the pain of a coach taking from me my chance to end a career. Injury was the thief in the night time as far as my playing days were concerned. But this is the reality – selections make or break coaches, and Gatland, public relations nightmare aside, knows his best chance of success is with the players with which he’s enjoyed the most success. Every coach does it, why should he be different? And, to be frank, if Jamie Roberts had been fit for the first two tests, would O’Driscoll have made those starting fifteens? I am almost certain he would not have.

Sentimentality is for the clubhouse, not the rugby field, and O’Driscoll, while I feel for the player and the person, has to understand that you only get so many shots at glory. Last week was his best yet, and he failed to make it count.

Putting the obvious fan shock and horror of this selection to one side, let’s think about what it means for the game plan. For starters, Gatland needs punch and the best place to get that punch is at inside centre. Davies is deception, and deception is a tool best used at outside centre. Best practice teams (think All Blacks, think Chiefs, think, dare I say it, Wales) know you need a powerhouse outside the fly-half to ensure gainline percentage (GLP). This can come from solid forward runners operating off the half-back or fly-half, but if you want some width, it’s best to have bulk permanently stationed outside the ten. Roberts is that bulk. His job should be to turn Lealiifano into a judder bar with every touch of the ball, thus creating delays in the Wallabies defensive set-up by weakening the midfield trust. Gaps will then come out wide.

With respect to Jamie Roberts (and all other great inside centres), he is the brawn and Davies is the brains. Although I’m sure being Welsh, they’re both partial to a pint of the latter. GLP is one of the key statistics in a game – an indicator of how effective your running attack is – and the Lions, notwithstanding their possession deficit in test two, simply must do better than their 75% effort in Melbourne. (Australia’s GLP was 84.) Roberts can make that happen.

Much has been made of the Lions’ kick tactics last weekend too. Did they kick too much? Well, the Wallabies actually kicked more. But as much as it is cliché, a kick is only as good as its chase and the Wallabies regained almost 20% of their in-play kicks. The lesson is obvious and the fix is easy. Accuracy and follow up.

And while we’re on kicks, here’s the age-old quandary: Do you take the three points or do you keep the screws on and try for seven? My personal feeling is that you cannot afford to button off. Yes, scoreboard pressure – the ability to keep the score ticking over – is very real, and it was a hallmark of our game at the Crusaders. However, when you have a team on the ropes, you don’t back off. With ten minutes to go, Horwill decided on the scrum instead of the points. Warburton had an earlier opportunity to destroy the Wallabies at scrum time and instead he settled for a penalty. That’s a moral victory for the Wallabies pack.

So how does this go?

With the return of Corbisiero to the front row and the addition of O’Brien and Faletau to the loose forwards, Gatland has picked a pack to play to northern hemisphere strengths: scrummage the Wallabies into submission, carry the ball with intent, take the moneyball option at lineout time. In the backline, he has (finally) a destructive inside centre to take the heat off Sexton and bend the Wallaby line. Davies’ return to outside centre, operating with two of his Welsh back three behind him, is the finishing touch on a backline that simply must fire.

No, this is not a team for the sentimentalists, but take heart from the fact it is one for the rationalists.
 

Cardiffblue

Jim Lenehan (48)
Totally agree, but there have been a few occasions when the lifters and jumper are at full stretch and the ball is still thrown a good foot over the jumpers hands - that's a shit throw.
Don't you think the need for a lineout option at the tail has been negated slightly by the poor throwing form of all three hookers.
There's always more to these things, but overthrown or crooked throws are generally (not always) a hookers mistake. Same as a poor pass or crooked feed by a scrum half.

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Had a momentary panic attack at the thought that with Parling playing he would know our lineout calls for next 6N. But then again with Hibbard throwing in so badly he has no chance of deciphering them!
 

Cardiffblue

Jim Lenehan (48)
Rebel Sport are getting in early and have started to discount the Lions jersey and reduced them to $99. When you purchase a jersey, you can also get the cap and/or scarf for an additional $5 each. Alternatively, scarves and caps are $10-$15 each depending on which Rebel store you go to.

Good deal for Lions fans for the decider.

Are they selling this version?
1011047_336687916461825_1941093704_n.jpg
 

Cardiffblue

Jim Lenehan (48)
Adam Jones is a sporting god contd.
BOKHjoYCIAAzA5O.jpg


"I won't go past the World Cup, unless they put a game on like they did for Shane Williams. In which case I can clap myself on and off the field and cry for the cameras!"

" I should do something about what I am going to do when I finish, but I am too lazy to start thinking about it! Maybe I'll get a job in the media!"
 

Wales Fan

Alfred Walker (16)
I could not agree more but that was not Rolland's fault then and it hasn't been since. But he was the fella who had threats made against his life. The funny thing is that you never see a tip/ spear tackle when Rolland is reffing, funnily enough.

Every country has it's dipshits I'm afraid :rolleyes:
( I'm sure there was a game Rolland reffed in France where he gave a yellow for a tip tackle and received quite a bit of stick after, but don't quote me ! ;) )

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Wales Fan

Alfred Walker (16)
Agree that the hookers are part of the problem but my main point really is that I think it is nearly impossible for a team to compete without a line out and I don't think it is possible to scratch one together in a couple of weeks.


I guess that's why they tried to use club combinations when they could like Youngs with Parling & Croft, and Hibbard with A W Jones & Evans.
But even then different lifters come into the equation too.
Injuries aside they should have settled on a test pack a little earlier and given them more gametime. It's tough on the other players but at least gives an opportunity to build combinations.

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the plastic paddy

John Solomon (38)
Mate, you've lost the plot. It's a game. the greatest game of all. Win or lose I'm enjoying it. Shame that you are not. Been through enough bad times with Wales to realise that it's not life and death. You need to take a step back and realise it too. Dont know what happened in Sept last year but whatever it was, I would be questioning whether your lonely furrow is worth ploughing
September 2011 was when Ireland beat Aus in a game that matters. That was when I realised that the hark back to amateurism that is the Lions is holding NH rugby back. The Munster lads are back in pre season and their colleagues Conor Murray and Paul O'Connell have not even finished their seasons, madness!!!!
 

the plastic paddy

John Solomon (38)
I guess that's why they tried to use club combinations when they could like Youngs with Parling & Croft, and Hibbard with A W Jones & Evans.
But even then different lifters come into the equation too.
Injuries aside they should have settled on a test pack a little earlier and given them more gametime. It's tough on the other players but at least gives an opportunity to build combinations.

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They don't have the time Wales fan and they are never going to get it back. If Parling or AWJ get dropped on their heads by someone tomorrow will it really be bad luck? 74 they played 27 games or something crazy.
 

the plastic paddy

John Solomon (38)
Adam Jones is a sporting god contd.
View attachment 3882

"I won't go past the World Cup, unless they put a game on like they did for Shane Williams. In which case I can clap myself on and off the field and cry for the cameras!"

" I should do something about what I am going to do when I finish, but I am too lazy to start thinking about it! Maybe I'll get a job in the media!"
Adam Jones would be someone about which you me and Boris Johnson agree. If you notice than scans but you don't like that in Wales, crow black, slow black..... Noose!!!
 

Cardiffblue

Jim Lenehan (48)
September 2011 was when Ireland beat Aus in a game that matters. That was when I realised that the hark back to amateurism that is the Lions is holding NH rugby back. The Munster lads are back in pre season and their colleagues Conor Murray and Paul O'Connell have not even finished their seasons, madness!!!!
Strangely I agree with you! the top players are contracted in such ridiculous ways at the mercy of voracious french clubs/provinces/unions that they are playing too much and injuries or lapses in form are inevitable. Warbs and BoD are good cases in point. warbs has looked disinterested at franchise level. Don't think he is. It is just not possible to keep playing on top form for that number of games. Worse still for those who choose to go to France into the meat grinder of Top 14
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Adam Jones is a sporting god contd.
View attachment 3882

"I won't go past the World Cup, unless they put a game on like they did for Shane Williams. In which case I can clap myself on and off the field and cry for the cameras!"

" I should do something about what I am going to do when I finish, but I am too lazy to start thinking about it! Maybe I'll get a job in the media!"

The Koala's bind on his arm proves that our scrum problems are bred of this hot dry land.
 

Bardon

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Much has been made of the Lions’ kick tactics last weekend too. Did they kick too much? Well, the Wallabies actually kicked more. But as much as it is cliché, a kick is only as good as its chase and the Wallabies regained almost 20% of their in-play kicks. The lesson is obvious and the fix is easy. Accuracy and follow up.

The rest of his view point is pretty reasonable but I can't believe he's advocating the same kicking tactics as last week, especially with the team that's been picked.

The only way this team can make an impression is by retaining possession. What's the point in picking so many ball carriers if you're going to kick the leather off it again, madness.
 

Cardiffblue

Jim Lenehan (48)
The rest of his view point is pretty reasonable but I can't believe he's advocating the same kicking tactics as last week, especially with the team that's been picked.

The only way this team can make an impression is by retaining possession. What's the point in picking so many ball carriers if you're going to kick the leather off it again, madness.
agree
 
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