League Targets

[Derpus]

The only natural playmaker weve produced recently IMO was Harrison. I dont think Noah even played flyhalf - wasnt he a centre at younger ages?

I thought Isaac Lucas also looked like a pretty good prospect.

With so many League teams with bigger budgets and now France sniffing about its hard to see how we would ever keep decent halves in the game.

 

[PhilClinton]

To DC's point, are we actually fucked because organisations like the Storm & Panthers (and I'm sure many others) are combing the schoolboy ranks and locking up these genuine generational talented playmakers and the guys who end up running around for our schoolboy and U20 teams are pretty good but still nowhere near as good?

I think about Jake McIntyre for example - I didn't actually see him play as a schoolboy but he was picked in the Aussie Schoolboys two years in a row. He was thrown to the wolves as a 22-yr old with the Reds and I think most would agree he flopped. Technically the bloke should be one of our high achievers based on his pedigree.

Maybe some posters here actually saw him play at schoolboy level though and he just wasn't that good but there weren't many other options.

 

[Dctarget]

Yeah so we need to go big on a flyhalf, offer him a 5 year term at 18 and hope he turns out good and can save our entire code. Sweet.

 

[JRugby2]

Yeah so we need to go big on a flyhalf, offer him a 5 year term at 18 and hope he turns out good and can save our entire code. Sweet.

This famously has worked wonders for us in the last 10 years.

 

[parkfootyenthusiast2]

With so many League teams with bigger budgets and now France sniffing about its hard to see how we would ever keep decent halves in the game.

Tbh can you justify letting these guys go to league for a few years almost like an investment then pay them huge cash to come back... because the publicity almost justifies the $? Cleary would 1000% cover his contract in revenues I'd guess?

 

[parkfootyenthusiast2]

I'm also not sure that a few years in rugby league is a BAD thing for a playmaker like Katoa or Cleary. Mind you there's certainly not a load of examples of successful playmakers across both codes, finishers sure, at least not in the last 25 years (Mat Rogers?)

 

[PhilClinton]

I'm also not sure that a few years in rugby league is a BAD thing for a playmaker like Katoa or Cleary. Mind you there's certainly not a load of examples of successful playmakers across both codes, finishers sure, at least not in the last 25 years (Mat Rogers?)

Berrick Barnes probably the most recent example and you'd have to say he was a success.

 

[Derpus]

Yeah so we need to go big on a flyhalf, offer him a 5 year term at 18 and hope he turns out good and can save our entire code. Sweet.

This is what France have started doing, though, right? They actually invest in prospects knowing they will likely lose on some but overall the benefits are worth the cost.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

To DC's point, are we actually fucked because organisations like the Storm & Panthers (and I'm sure many others) are combing the schoolboy ranks and locking up these genuine generational talented playmakers and the guys who end up running around for our schoolboy and U20 teams are pretty good but still nowhere near as good?

I think about Jake McIntyre for example - I didn't actually see him play as a schoolboy but he was picked in the Aussie Schoolboys two years in a row. He was thrown to the wolves as a 22-yr old with the Reds and I think most would agree he flopped. Technically the bloke should be one of our high achievers based on his pedigree.

Maybe some posters here actually saw him play at schoolboy level though and he just wasn't that good but there weren't many other options.

Yep, Saw him play in the Schools rep stuff and he's a neat player but never exceptional. He's the prototype we produce every year. Mack Mason was another. The best 10 I've seen through junior age if you take out KB (Kurtley Beale) and QC (Quade Cooper) who have freak abilities that aren't normal was Matt To'omua and he debuted for the Brums 18.

He always had time and the physicality to go with natural talent.

The problem with 10s right now is a distinct lack of creativity and a seeming fear of failure over everything else. Defences are weak so you don't have to do much other than recycle 5 phases and it'll crack.

 

[Dctarget]

to quote Noah Lolesio, 'Carter Gordon!'?

 

[Sword of Justice]

The problem with 10s right now is a distinct lack of creativity and a seeming fear of failure over everything else. Defences are weak so you don't have to do much other than recycle 5 phases and it'll crack.

How would you rank the current starting 10s for vision and creativity? Mine would be:
Lynagh
Lolesio
No one.

And that is not to say those two are setting the world alight but I do think Lynagh could continue to be cultivated to bring it out of him.

I’m not a huge fan of Finn Russell but one thing I do appreciate about him is an unwavering commitment to taking intelligent risks.

Has Australia had a creative 10 since Cooper?

 

[parkfootyenthusiast2]

Yep, Saw him play in the Schools rep stuff and he's a neat player but never exceptional. He's the prototype we produce every year. Mack Mason was another. The best 10 I've seen through junior age if you take out KB (Kurtley Beale) (Kurtley Beale) and QC (Quade Cooper) (Quade Cooper) who have freak abilities that aren't normal was Matt To'omua and he debuted for the Brums 18.

He always had time and the physicality to go with natural talent.

The problem with 10s right now is a distinct lack of creativity and a seeming fear of failure over everything else. Defences are weak so you don't have to do much other than recycle 5 phases and it'll crack.

I'll always remember my old man dragging me out to Joeys on a Saturday arvo to watch KB (Kurtley Beale) run around because he knew that he was that special. I'll let you all know when he starts calling me about another high school prodigy.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

How would you rank the current starting 10s for vision and creativity? Mine would be:
Lynagh
Lolesio
No one.

And that is not to say those two are setting the world alight but I do think Lynagh could continue to be cultivated to bring it out of him.

I’m not a huge fan of Finn Russell but one thing I do appreciate about him is an unwavering commitment to taking intelligent risks.

Has Australia had a creative 10 since Cooper?

I wouldnt even say either of those guys are very creative or off the cuff. I think they are very very good at executing the plan. Lynagh does have the ability to pin the ears back if he sees a hole but in terms of that bit of rogue play Donaldson is probably the most off the cuff. Edmed had a crack in the ITM Cup but we didn't see it in Super Rugby.

I'm not expecting anyone to be Quade, Kurtley or Carlos Spencer but there's just so much predictability about our playmakers and halves in general. I think it's why Teddy Wilson seems a good prospect at 9. Don't know how much of the U19s Super Rugby you watched or the Aus 20s but it's the same again. Joe Dillon who is with the Brums is the only one who will create something from nothing with a slide of hand or cheeky inside ball. Said it on the U20s thread but the 15 Sid Harvey reminds me of early days Foley who had a great pass and quick feet. He also shifted from the back to 10. I remember people talking about Jock Campbell potentially doing similar but it didn't eventuate. Larkham did it... Do we need to be skill identifying within our own players as to where they can be even more effective?

 

[Tomikin]

I wouldnt even say either of those guys are very creative or off the cuff. I think they are very very good at executing the plan. Lynagh does have the ability to pin the ears back if he sees a hole but in terms of that bit of rogue play Donaldson is probably the most off the cuff. Edmed had a crack in the ITM Cup but we didn't see it in Super Rugby.

I'm not expecting anyone to be Quade, Kurtley or Carlos Spencer but there's just so much predictability about our playmakers and halves in general. I think it's why Teddy Wilson seems a good prospect at 9. Don't know how much of the U19s Super Rugby you watched or the Aus 20s but it's the same again. Joe Dillon who is with the Brums is the only one who will create something from nothing with a slide of hand or cheeky inside ball. Said it on the U20s thread but the 15 Sid Harvey reminds me of early days Foley who had a great pass and quick feet. He also shifted from the back to 10. I remember people talking about Jock Campbell potentially doing similar but it didn't eventuate. Larkham did it... Do we need to be skill identifying within our own players as to where they can be even more effective?

I have always thought Jorgensen should be moved into 10 at the Tahs. Pull a Larkham, but I'm guessing that ship has sailed and he will be a wing till he takes over fullback when Wright leaves.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I'd seen glimpses of him slotting into that role when required when he was a Schoolboy but it's only because he was the best player on the park over being a natural play-maker. His athletic ability and bit of freak will be best served in the back 3 for his career I feel. Of the current Super Rugby players it's probably Tom Wright who would have the easiest time shifting. To bring it back to this thread he was brought into the Manly Sea Eagles as a Five Eighth.

This sort of thinking could be helpful for Rugby in a lot of positions like some undersized backrowers should be bulked up and made Hookers but Rugby in Aus doesn't have the resources to keep someone on the books for a what-if in 3 years time like the NRL can and will. Finding play-makers though needs a coach willing to make a big call and the perfect roster set up to justify the shift.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think about Jake McIntyre for example - I didn't actually see him play as a schoolboy but he was picked in the Aussie Schoolboys two years in a row. He was thrown to the wolves as a 22-yr old with the Reds and I think most would agree he flopped. Technically the bloke should be one of our high achievers based on his pedigree.

He was our best 10 option as a 19/20 year old but also wasn't great. I don't think it was at all surprising that he didn't become a Wallaby 10.

Yep, Saw him play in the Schools rep stuff and he's a neat player but never exceptional. He's the prototype we produce every year. Mack Mason was another.

Mason is absolutely in this same category. The reality is that in most years, our best under 20s 10 isn't going to be a long term star.

I have always thought Jorgensen should be moved into 10 at the Tahs. Pull a Larkham, but I'm guessing that ship has sailed and he will be a wing till he takes over fullback when Wright leaves.

How do you do this in the modern professional game though? Do the Waratahs write-off a season while trying to transition Jorgensen to 10 and just hope it doesn't take long?

Does Jorgensen want to do it? Regardless of whether it has the potential to work, you're taking a starting Wallaby winger and potentially putting them back down the pecking order in another position because you're hoping they have the ability to play that position too and we need someone for it?

Berrick Barnes probably the most recent example and you'd have to say he was a success.

Barnes was back in rugby as a 20 year old so it was hardly a long sojourn to league.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Quite a fun memory game to go through the decent but never elite 10s that have come through our 20s.

McIntyre
Mason
Greene
Deegan
McGregor
Horwitz
Jackson-Hope
Jooste
....

 

[PhilClinton]

Barnes was back in rugby as a 20 year old so it was hardly a long sojourn to league.

I think that's the point though - we don't have the cash to lock up a dozen schoolboy prodigies, but we could potentially have some bandwidth to swipe them back when they've only played a dozen games in 1st grade and don't get the contract they want.

The halfback market is going to become very competitive in the NRL during the next few years. Dylan Brown's contract has totally skewed things, blokes like Galvin being paid, even someone like Hynes on $1M (yes I know he won a Dally M but he's done nothing of note) is crazy coin.

We may have to wait for the dust to settle with the Perth & PNG sides but after that, there could be a couple of young playmakers willing to make the jump.

 

[Tomikin]

How do you do this in the modern professional game though? Do the Waratahs write-off a season while trying to transition Jorgensen to 10 and just hope it doesn't take long?

Does Jorgensen want to do it? Regardless of whether it has the potential to work, you're taking a starting Wallaby winger and potentially putting them back down the pecking order in another position because you're hoping they have the ability to play that position too and we need someone for it?

All questions that need to be answered, just because it's hard doesn't mean it shouldn't be looked at.. I have no feeling at all if Jorgensen would make a great 10 or not, other than his skill set seems to be what we would look for.

But he will probably end up as 15 for the Tahs as the second playmaker, and I guess Bowen/Creighton as your 10. As I also pointed out that ship has sailed as he's now a Wallaby winger and part of the back 3 at the Tahs.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

If you want to be competitive in the NRL you won't be able to do it with a halfback on less than 500k.

Can Rugby even do that when that's the figure for middle of the road replaceable players. Sexton has signed for Catalan on 500k in the Super League.... You have to pay for potential now. Eels signed the Hooker Da Silva from the Tigers for 650k. He's 20 with 22 games under his belt...

Rugby may need financially plan to eat a few shit sandwiches with the hope a couple come through, but sign some of these kids in year 11 who seems like genuine stars. Joe Walsh captains Aus 18s and looks great now with Manly. Onitoni Large still at School but captain NSW U16s in 2023 that flogged everything and he's signed with Manly. Manly requested an exemption to see if he could play NRL this year before he's 18. I know they have the cash to lose if it doesn't work out but Rugby needs to take a few risks at this point.