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Law question - TPN's tackling technique

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Brumbieman

Dick Tooth (41)
Oh harden the fuck up, i'm just happy someone in Waratahland know's the concept of tackling around the leg, and that maybe the kids will pick up on it.


Too many professional rugby players with no idea how to tackle and bring a man to the deck immediately, its all pansy-jersey grabbing and league gang tackles.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Oh harden the fuck up, i'm just happy someone in Waratahland know's the concept of tackling around the leg, and that maybe the kids will pick up on it.


Too many professional rugby players with no idea how to tackle and bring a man to the deck immediately, its all pansy-jersey grabbing and league gang tackles.
You'll be humming a different tune if he injures one of yours this weekend.
Besides which its just fucking ugly - like those league tackles you mention.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

USARugger

John Thornett (49)
Oh harden the fuck up, i'm just happy someone in Waratahland know's the concept of tackling around the leg, and that maybe the kids will pick up on it.


Too many professional rugby players with no idea how to tackle and bring a man to the deck immediately, its all pansy-jersey grabbing and league gang tackles.

Yeah because fractured fibulas/tibias and dislocated knees will really teach those soft Aussies how to toughen up and play the man's game, right?
 

Bullrush

Geoff Shaw (53)
You'll be humming a different tune if he injures one of yours this weekend.
Besides which its just fucking ugly - like those league tackles you mention.


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Funnily enough, TPN has been doing these tackles for ages for the Wallabies without anywhere near this kind of outcry. Now that he's doing them against fellow Wallbies, you guys are finding all sorts of ways that they're illegal
 

Scoey

Tony Shaw (54)
Funnily enough, TPN has been doing these tackles for ages for the Wallabies without anywhere near this kind of outcry. Now that he's doing them against fellow Wallbies, you guys are finding all sorts of ways that they're illegal

It was the one against Jed Robinson that got my goat and that guy ain't no Wallaby. Having had my own knee hyper extended by one of these tackles many moons ago, I've never liked them. In terms of defence, they are a lousy, low percentage tackle. Pretty easy to miss the intended attacker altogether, but if you hit them, the chance of injury is far greater than a more traditional tackle. Add to this the fact that, if the attacker isn't injured, they are generally able to pop off the ground to a support player as the tackle does nothing to tie up the ball and the tackler has next to no ability to get to his feet (sometimes because he is unconscious) because he is usually underneath the attacking player and therefore cannot contest the ball, assist with clean out, slow the delivery of the ball etc.

Further, I acknowledge that he has been doing these tackles for a while but it's only really coming to light now for for one main reason. He's getting much better at them and doing them more often with increasing accuracy. A couple of years ago, he'd maybe attempt one per game and usually miss or knock himself out. Now it appears this is his first choice tackle option and he's pulling off multiple hits per game. This is the nature of these things.

It's also a tackle that you see more often in S15. Less so in tests. This is because the less structured nature of Super Rugby allows it whereas Test matches really give him less opportunity. So your gripe about it being an Aus vs the world thing is really probably a bit wide of the mark.
 

jollyswagman

Ron Walden (29)
Its a dangerous tackle plain and simple. I don't see why the existing "dangerous tackle" law can't be applied to TPN's technique. Surely the risk of injury to the ball carrier is extremely high regardless of whether or not he uses his arms or not. I reckon the damage would be even worse if was actually able to keep a hold on the players legs. Any physicists out there that could elaborate on what might unfold should 110kg TPN manage to make contact mid-shin and keep his trajectory while the ball carrier's top half keeps moving forward?

Why were tackles above the shoulder outlawed? Because the risk of serious injury to the ball carrier was extremely high. They didn't outlaw head -high tackles to protect the tacklers arm from the ball carriers hard head. Surely the risk of serious injury is extremely high in the leg chopping style we see TPN and SFinger attempting. I don't see the need to get that detailed in the rule book and start describing from what direction and where initial point of contact are. Its bloody dangerous and surely if the ref's pinged him a few times he would get the message and tweak his technique.

Yes, I am Reds fans but I am also a Tah's & Brumbies fan. I hate seeing TPN and SFinger pull that stuff on the pitch and I don't care what jersey they are wearing when they do it. I would feel bloody embarrassed and angry should he be wearing the green and gold and hit one of our arch enemies like McCaw or Reid and either of them be seriously injured. The type of injury that is most likely going to occur are season ending & career changing. I love seeing big hits just as much as anyone but I don't enjoy seeing injuries like Drew Mitchel's. One last thing, I have blown out both my knees playing rugby so maybe it is just a sensitive issue. I wasn't the biggest bloke on my team, nor the smallest, and in both cases it was a big, stinky, hairy, ugly son-of-a-b*tch hooker who hit me when I did them.
 

Rock Lobster

Larry Dwyer (12)
Its a dangerous tackle plain and simple. I don't see why the existing "dangerous tackle" law can't be applied to TPN's technique. Surely the risk of injury to the ball carrier is extremely high regardless of whether or not he uses his arms or not. I reckon the damage would be even worse if was actually able to keep a hold on the players legs. Any physicists out there that could elaborate on what might unfold should 110kg TPN manage to make contact mid-shin and keep his trajectory while the ball carrier's top half keeps moving forward?

Why were tackles above the shoulder outlawed? Because the risk of serious injury to the ball carrier was extremely high. They didn't outlaw head -high tackles to protect the tacklers arm from the ball carriers hard head. Surely the risk of serious injury is extremely high in the leg chopping style we see TPN and SFinger attempting. I don't see the need to get that detailed in the rule book and start describing from what direction and where initial point of contact are. Its bloody dangerous and surely if the ref's pinged him a few times he would get the message and tweak his technique.

Yes, I am Reds fans but I am also a Tah's & Brumbies fan. I hate seeing TPN and SFinger pull that stuff on the pitch and I don't care what jersey they are wearing when they do it. I would feel bloody embarrassed and angry should he be wearing the green and gold and hit one of our arch enemies like McCaw or Reid and either of them be seriously injured. The type of injury that is most likely going to occur are season ending & career changing. I love seeing big hits just as much as anyone but I don't enjoy seeing injuries like Drew Mitchel's. One last thing, I have blown out both my knees playing rugby so maybe it is just a sensitive issue. I wasn't the biggest bloke on my team, nor the smallest, and in both cases it was a big, stinky, hairy, ugly son-of-a-b*tch hooker who hit me when I did them.

Agree 100% with this. They are dangerous tackles pure & simple
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Funnily enough, TPN has been doing these tackles for ages for the Wallabies without anywhere near this kind of outcry. Now that he's doing them against fellow Wallbies, you guys are finding all sorts of ways that they're illegal
I've never seen him get up from one before.
I would decry them even if he was doing them against Saffers!
 

Richo

John Thornett (49)
Does TPN have good tackling technique? No. Would it be good if it was better? Yes, mostly for TPN so he didn't knock himself out so often. Has anyone suffered a serious injury from being tackled by TPN in this manner? No. Has TPN played at the highest levels of rugby for five years? Yes. Has he been penalised for this form of tackling specifically? Not that anyone can identify.

Player safety is obviously important and, as Stu Dickinson said on the Podslam, be a refereeing priority. Beyond TPN hurting himself, I simply don't see what the argument is here.

The comparison to a chop block doesn't hold water. A chop block occurs when a second blocker goes low one an already-blocked defender so that he is "chopped" between the two attacking players. Mostly, it happens accidentally -- a running back, for instance, goes for a low or cut block on a defender and does not realise another blocker has already picked up the man. Usually it happens on a blitz or a draw or another play where there is more unpredictability in the tackle box. It's particularly dangerous because of force being applied from two (often opposing) directions. It can snap knees and ankles pretty easily. At worst, TPN's technique is analogous to a cut block, a somewhat dangerous but not illegal move. The major -- and, for me, definitive -- difference is that TPN strikes a ball-carrier who expects to be tackled. It's a tackle, not a block and thus very different.
 

USARugger

John Thornett (49)
With all respect, that's crazy talk. You seen to be saying he's setting out to injure people.

No, just that launching into a players lower leg shoulder first with no wrap is an inherently dangerous tackling style. Nobody can read TPNs mind and unveil his intention here, unfortunately. But the tackle in itself is inherently dangerous.

Also, we've only seen TPN hurt himself so far (he really needs to stop knocking himself out or he's going to be a vegetable by 45) because this new cut-block style tackling from him is really only gaining prevalence now. As was mentioned before he used to only throw one or maybe two of these hit a game, now it is several. You've also gotta consider the sample size here, as far as I know Sfinger and TPN are the only players who look to hit this way (at least with any regularity and even finger he been looking like making more big hits to the chest so far this year). So if this lawnmower tackling style caught on with others the pool of "victims" would grow exponentially and we'd likely see many more injuries. Your lower leg is simply and literally not designed for impacts like that, unless you're a trained Muay-Thai boxer.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
The head is at least as hard as the shoulder.

If this tackle was likely to injure frequently then some of his tackles where he knocked himself out would be very likely to injure the opposition player as well.

He is using the arms, his first impact has been no lower than the knee based on the two tackles in question against the Rebels. This is a complete storm in a teacup at the moment.
 
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