Lack of manners/respect

[Dan54]

So much so that I've developed an almost inhumanly unbiased out look on officiating to counter-act this. I still see when referee's get things wrong but I see it for both sides. But then I see the number of mistakes players make in comparison and don't see a reason to harp on about it.

Maybe someday officials will be recognised for the tough job they do to the same extent that players and coaches are lauded for having a good season/tournament.

Mate a like doesn't express how much I agree with you, I have a mate who as soon as ref is named for whichever game,he will tell you how that ref hates aussie teams , his team, doesn't rule the offside correctly etc etc, drives me nuts!! Was watching a game with him recently, I don't think he mentioned once about great play, just how ref missed this or that. I'm sure it ruins his enjoyment of game.
I always say at whatever level ref is,I can guarantee he will almost never make as many mistakes as players!!

 

[Christopher McDonald]

I see the way the refs are treated in soccer and cringe. It is absolutely disgraceful and makes a mockery of the "beautiful game" motto.

One of the things that I really do like about rugby is that regardless of what a player might be thinking in his head, or even muttering to his team-mates, when he is talking to the ref it is nearly always "sir, yes, sir", and they get on with it.

Respect mon!

I agree but unfortunately I have noticed that players seem to be arguing more than they used to with referees about their decisions (at least that is my impression). Ali Williams was an absolute disgrace this Super 15 season. He actually behaved like a Soccer player towards the referees. I really hope that sort of behaviour doesn't spread because it truly is one of the great aspects of Rugby, the respect the referee gets. It is also one reason why Rugby is becoming so popular in Argentina, for example. They really appreciate good values, such as this, which are virtually non-existent in Soccer.

 

[badabing59]

I think booing poor officiating is generally bad as booing players, usually because the booers?? are just wanting decisions their own way, and as Daz says in about sportsmanship and bad manners etc, I actually think booing a ref during game to pressure him to make decisions I'd exactly same thing!!!
It si disrespecting the game as well.

There is a solution for poor referring:

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Respect is shaking opposition players shaking hands before and after the game.

Bad manners is NOT forming a tunnel to cheer the opposition off, regardless of the score.

Disrespect is players whinging to the referee about every decision the latter makes (or doesn't make).

Good manners is thanking the medical staff, gear steward and water runners after the game.

 

[Sidbarret]

I have slightly more relaxed view of things than most here.

Booing the kicker - slight annoyance, but I can forgive the crowd for wanting to get involved the game.

Goading an opposition player who has made a mistake or as you are about to score - no problem whatsoever, if you don't want to be goaded, don't make the mistake of allow the other team to score. (Its different if there is gulf of class between the teams though)

Talking to referee - As long as the player is respectful it is fine and it is up to referee to stamp his authority on proceedings. People mentioned Ali Williams earlier. He was particularly bad in the game against the Highlanders, but the ref should have marched and eventually yellowed him.

Something that does get my goat, but is more a case of gamesmanship than bad manners, is players refusing to give up the ball after conceding a penalty or line-out. I really wish refs would march teams who did this more often.

 

[Mank]

Goading an opposition player who has made a mistake or as you are about to score - no problem whatsoever, if you don't want to be goaded, don't make the mistake of allow the other team to score. (Its different if there is gulf of class between the teams though)

No, this is the classic cowardly small man bully mentality. They only do it because they can get away with it now. It's puerile and I'd love it if players could get smacked for this.

 

[Dan54]

Respect is shaking opposition players shaking hands before and after the game.

That's one thing we will disagree with, I think everyone should shake hands after a game, but never before, I actually went crook at our seniors when I first moved over here when they did it.

Anyway to finish (I just got interupted), I was of the opinion that players should not even talk before games, but at end of game, both teams should then be great mates, having a beer and genrally socialising. As for sledging players by other players etc, never worried me too much, if they have energy to do that, they probably not thinking about game, but it a physical game and if someone sledged me, I could generally maybe get my answer at tackle, ruck or maul.
Who in Australaia was upset when Kearnsie invited Fitzie to the BBQ for 2 suasages in the test at Athletic Park? Even most kiwis saw the funny side of it, and knew if Fitzie was upset, he could sort it out in game.

 

[Bullrush]

That's one thing we will disagree with, I think everyone should shake hands after a game, but never before, I actually went crook at our seniors when I first moved over here when they did it.

I agree. I almost never shake hands before the game.

Bad manners is NOT forming a tunnel to cheer the opposition off, regardless of the score.

We never did this in NZ. We'd shake hands but never did a tunnel. We'd often buy a case for the opposition though when they were at our home ground. We'd have a case for our boys as well in the changing rooms. That never happens here. I'd prefer the case to the tunnel myself

 

[Bullrush]

Ali Williams was an absolute disgrace this Super 15 season. He actually behaved like a Soccer player towards the referees. I really hope that sort of behaviour doesn't spread because it truly is one of the great aspects of Rugby, the respect the referee gets.

As a Blues fan I was pretty happy to see Ali challenging the refs. He wasn't screaming in the refs face or anything like that but as a Captain he has the right to talk to the refs. Anyone who has played rugby for a decent amount of time knows what it's like to play games where the ref is allowing things on one side and penalising you for the same things. I've
found that 9 times out of 10, once you raise it with the ref he strarts blowing the other way as well because most refs are actually quite fair, ot at least want to be seen as fair. I felt pretty frustrated during the Blues - Highlanders game at some of the calls going against us and not against them and I was glad Ali took it up with the ref.

They deserve respect but they are not perfect or above reproach.

 

[boyo]

That's one thing we will disagree with, I think everyone should shake hands after a game, but never before, I actually went crook at our seniors when I first moved over here when they did it.
.

When I played (years ago) both teams would line up in the centre of the field and each player would shake hands with their opposite number.
After the match a tunnel was always formed, 3 cheers for the opposition, they replied with 3 cheers for your team, and everyone gave 3 cheers for the ref'.

 

[Braveheart81]

Lining up and shaking hands before a game was always part of junior rugby for me.

It was your first chance to try and size up and intimidate your opposite number. Given the school I went to and how bad we were at rugby, generally it was a time to wonder how the kids at other schools were so much bigger than the kids in your team.

 

[Rob42]

Lining up and shaking hands before a game was always part of junior rugby for me.

It was your first chance to try and size up and intimidate your opposite number. Given the school I went to and how bad we were at rugby, generally it was a time to wonder how the kids at other schools were so much bigger than the kids in your team.

I'd love to see a study of junior players' perceptions of the size of the opposition compared to the actual figures. I remember exactly the same feeling - they can't all have been bigger!

 

[Scoey]

I started playing (apart from the odd game at school) in Seniors. At 6'6" and 115kg I was often one of the biggest guys on the field. Due to my massive lack of experience and technique, I often felt like one of the smaller blokes. Once I got better and started feeling at home, I started to realise how big I was (comparatively speaking) and it's incredible the difference this made when hitting rucks etc.

Perception is a funny thing.

 

[ACT Crusader]

As a Blues fan I was pretty happy to see Ali challenging the refs. He wasn't screaming in the refs face or anything like that but as a Captain he has the right to talk to the refs. Anyone who has played rugby for a decent amount of time knows what it's like to play games where the ref is allowing things on one side and penalising you for the same things. I've
found that 9 times out of 10, once you raise it with the ref he strarts blowing the other way as well because most refs are actually quite fair, ot at least want to be seen as fair. I felt pretty frustrated during the Blues - Highlanders game at some of the calls going against us and not against them and I was glad Ali took it up with the ref.

They deserve respect but they are not perfect or above reproach.

Come on Bull, Ali was acting like an egg for most of the game. He was playing poorly so was taking his own frustrations out on the ref.

I played a lot of rep basketball growing up and I hated my team mates talking back to the ref and getting tech fouls. It got so bad one game that I went off at my team mates so much so that the next practice our coach invited us to sign agreements that said if you got a Tech you were fined $100. We were all 18-19yo so a big deal. Changed the way our team dealt with the ref and reacted that's for sure.

But I loved all the "trash" talking in basketball. Not the personal insulting rubbish, but the talking about how you were going to score on the defender, calling game over when you hit a basket, "you cant guard me", all that stuff

I like hearing the smack talk of front rowers when they know they've got it over their opposition at scrum time. Some funny stuff, but it's all about getting into their ear.

Not a fan of the pushing after a mistake or the head patting that some of the Saffa players love doing in the Currie Cup and Super rugby when a penalty is given away by a player.

 

[Bullrush]

Come on Bull, Ali was acting like an egg for most of the game. He was playing poorly so was taking his own frustrations out on the ref.

I played a lot of rep basketball growing up and I hated my team mates talking back to the ref and getting tech fouls. It got so bad one game that I went off at my team mates so much so that the next practice our coach invited us to sign agreements that said if you got a Tech you were fined $100. We were all 18-19yo so a big deal. Changed the way our team dealt with the ref and reacted that's for sure.

But I loved all the "trash" talking in basketball. Not the personal insulting rubbish, but the talking about how you were going to score on the defender, calling game over when you hit a basket, "you cant guard me", all that stuff

I like hearing the smack talk of front rowers when they know they've got it over their opposition at scrum time. Some funny stuff, but it's all about getting into their ear.

Not a fan of the pushing after a mistake or the head patting that some of the Saffa players love doing in the Currie Cup and Super rugby when a penalty is given away by a player.

I think Ali was letting his frustartions from a couple of games come thru in that one I think. We on the bad end of the penalty count in that first half though - no doubt about that.

In my experience (I played basketball all thru high school - didn't pick up rugby again till I was 25 or so) you had to talk back pretty badly to get tech fouls in basketball! But like you I love the trash talk - even in rugby.

Last year we packed a scrum and we had screwed it around when the ref blew it up and called for the opposition to feed it again. Our hooker looks at the ref and goes, 'Cmon ref. How was that not 180 degrees?!?!'. Without missing a beat the ref says, 'Cos it was 179'......I couldn't help but laugh.

I actually respect refs who can handle a bit of banter and give it back a bit. Not at the top level so much but down the grades definitely......

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

It might be better to take more of a helicopter view of what is deemed respectful or not.

For example:

Booing the kicker is a good comment and worthy of discussion. It is common in the SH but not in the NH. Is it disrespectful or just a cultural difference?

Bastard bogan supporters of team "x" booing player "y" while he kicks for goal is a bad comment and will lead to flame wars.

Let's try to keep it impersonal lads, otherwise this will be a very short-lived thread.

Oh please....

I had never heard it before I first attended a Rugby Match in England...
I first heard the crowd admonished for it by the ground announcer at the Old Landsdowne Road (the proper one)

I heard it next at 7S Tournaments (Northern Hemisphere) - lead mostly by English & South African spectators.

I only really became aware of it a few years ago as problematic down here when I noticed it becoming common-place at NZ Grounds - seems to have spread a bit since then...

 

[Ruggo]

Regardless of what I thought of the refs performance I always shake his hand after the game and say thank you sir.

Without him the game don't happen so I see that as cause enough to do this.

 

[Ruggo]

Regardless of what I thought of the refs performance I always shake his hand after the game and say thank you sir.

Without him the game don't happen so I see that as cause enough to do this.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Last year we packed a scrum and we had screwed it around when the ref blew it up and called for the opposition to feed it again. Our hooker looks at the ref and goes, 'Cmon ref. How was that not 180 degrees?!?!'. Without missing a beat the ref says, 'Cos it was 179'..I couldn't help but laugh.

One of the best lines I heard from a front rower some years ago when there was still a hit, and they got a massive hit, sending the opposition team back a few yards, the scrum went down and to most peoples surprise the ref called a a rest, one of the front rowers called to his opposite and said, "is that a deck of cards under you....."

 

[#1 Tah]

Allowed:
- distacting kickers
- booing poor officiating

As a referee, got to disagree here. Most people dont know this, but Rugby actually has a Law 0:

Always respect the match officials - often they do it for love of the game and for the benefit of the crowd and players. Simple.