Kurtley in Trouble Again

[Hell West & Crooked]

Hard for an alcoholic.

I don't think the amount he's being paid makes a scrap of difference.

If the rumours about what he was drinking are true, his salary just meant he was able to drink Baileys instead of Father O'Leary's Velvet Cream.

I see no evidence that he is an alcoholic... I see evidence that he has a problem with alcohol - MIGHT be a binge-drinker, and has some stuff going on that is causing him to look to the demon bottle... I see evidence that he MIGHT have a low tolerance to alcohol.

Being an aggressive drunk, and being an alcoholic, are far and away from the same thing.

 

[Braveheart81]

Alcoholism is a broad term for problems with alcohol, and is generally used to mean compulsive and uncontrolled consumption of alcoholic beverages, usually to the detriment of the drinker's health, personal relationships, and social standing.

I would say that his drinking has certainly had an affect on his social standing. This obviously includes his career and public reputation.

It almost certainly had an impact on his personal relationships as he punched a teammate and had a falling out with Vuna who was reportedly a good friend of his. Seemingly that bridge was mended but it doesn't change the fact that the incident in South Africa was detrimental to that relationship.

 

[cyclopath]

Wikipedia is not the highest level of evidence for classifying such things.

 

[Mr Doug]

I can't believe we are still talking about this bloke's indiscretions. At 65, I've seen these "types" come and go at all levels of sport. I've said it in the past on a GAGR forum: He's the re-incarnation of Andrew Walker. Nothing to do with DNA, He's an above-average player with a below-average brain. Let's concentrate on all those good players that are the future of Australian rugby. I wish Kurtley all the best in his post-rugby life.

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

Ultimately it is a discussion regarding a person we do not know... I don't know the nature of his relationship with Alcohol at all...

I've known a number of blokes who have left long-standing 'impressions' on their Jobs and their Friends, by going on lengthy benders in the wake of divorces, bust-ups, bereavements and the like... It did not make them Alcoholics, it went to different issues... Eventually, they climb out of the pit and move on.

All I would say that on the evidence to date, what I see here are incidents which seem to have at least as much to do with issues of emotion and discipline, as it has to do with any compulsion or addiction.

I wish him all the best, and I trust that the Rugby Community will stick by him and help see him through to better days.

 

[Zinzan]

"As a dog that returns to his vomit, so is a fool who repeats his folly"

 

[Rob42]

Wikipedia is not the highest level of evidence for classifying such things.

So what are you saying Cyclo? That's he's an alcohol abuser rather than alcohol dependent? Does it really matter? Can we agree on calling a Problem With Alcohol?

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

It may only be a beer, but thats not the point.

Not drinking alcohol is effectively part of his job. Having a temporary drinking ban means that he is being paid to not drink. The drinking ban is a test of his discipline, and his readiness to be in a professional environment again.

Most young people would drink far more than beale does, and probably cause just as much if not more trouble, but they are not being paid not to.

Actually that is exactly my point, which is why I think the Rebels have treated this situation perfectly.

He's been stood down for a game - that's a fairly hefty punishment for drinking a can of beer.

 

[Ruggo]

No real surprises sadly. Did anyone actually think a five week break would cure anything? It is classic behaviour for an alcoholic to re-offend when his stuff ups just get covered up. Nobody has acted in Kurtley's best interests here. They will spin you a pile of bullshit that they are looking out for him but in reality he is just a commodity to them and no use if he isn't playing. I read that he has been stood down so essentially they just keep polishing the turd. Somebody has to have the interests of the man rather than the rugby player at heart. Simply sack him and let him hit rock bottom. Only then will his real issues be realised. In the greater scheme of things it will not be the end but rather the beginning. The beginning of the rest of his life and he is young enough to rebuild his sporting career afterwards.
He has to take ownership of his problem but the problem with an addict is they don't comprehend what they are doing till they actually feel they have lost something.

 

[Ruggo]

one beer does not a triumphant return to a life of alcoholism make. Along the way to control what has been reported to be a drinking problem anyone (professional athletes included) will have slip ups. If anyone has quit smoking they will know then even a successful quitter will have the occasional slip up along the way, but it doesn't mean the whole process is a lost cause.

I agree he shouldn't have had a beer, but he did. The true test will be whether or not he continues his process to reform, or slips back in to old habits. If it were my decision that would be the test as to whether or not it was time to "cut him loose" as most are suggesting.

I quit smoking over five years ago. It was my fourth attempt and it was that one slip up each time that brought me undone. Only one smoke and I will be right doesn't work or it didn't for me anyways. I still get cravings but your resolve to resist the temptation becomes stronger over time. We all handle these things differently but so soon for Kurtley to be having a drink is not a good sign.

I can only imagine but suspect he would be feeling really shamed at the moment. The catalyst to change can be very hard to find and the truth can really hurt. I hope he can overcome this part.

 

[Richo]

No real surprises sadly. Did anyone actually think a five week break would cure anything? It is classic behaviour for an alcoholic to re-offend when his stuff ups just get covered up. Nobody has acted in Kurtley's best interests here. They will spin you a pile of bullshit that they are looking out for him but in reality he is just a commodity to them and no use if he isn't playing. I read that he has been stood down so essentially they just keep polishing the turd. Somebody has to have the interests of the man rather than the rugby player at heart. Simply sack him and let him hit rock bottom. Only then will his real issues be realised. In the greater scheme of things it will not be the end but rather the beginning. The beginning of the rest of his life and he is young enough to rebuild his sporting career afterwards.
He has to take ownership of his problem but the problem with an addict is they don't comprehend what they are doing till they actually feel they have lost something.

I think this is a common mythology for dealing with all manner of personal problems. Like most myths, it has some truth to it but certainly isn't the only possible truth, nor even close to that. Sometimes the "let him hit rock bottom" argument is more about the frustration of those around a person than actually doing right by the guy.

Not having a go at you, Ruggo, for making the point. More that I think it would be better if Kurtley had a strong support system around him and is able to remain in a environment where there is the possibility of redemption and a path forward.

 

[cyclopath]

So what are you saying Cyclo? That's he's an alcohol abuser rather than alcohol dependent? Does it really matter? Can we agree on calling a Problem With Alcohol?

It matters in a way, and not in another way. True addicts have little control over their desire to consume / partake in that to which they are addicted. Someone who binges, and acts aggressively when they do so is not in the same basket. I believe the latter group has more control over what they do, as they don't wake up in the morning and look for a bottle.
I agree, both are problematic, and hence my earlier post about hoping he is supported and gets help.
But if he just is a 'bad drunk', then I think he needs to be the prime mover in getting straightened out.

 

[TOCC]

It matters in a way, and not in another way. True addicts have little control over their desire to consume / partake in that to which they are addicted. Someone who binges, and acts aggressively when they do so is not in the same basket. I believe the latter group has more control over what they do, as they don't wake up in the morning and look for a bottle.
I agree, both are problematic, and hence my earlier post about hoping he is supported and gets help.
But if he just is a 'bad drunk', then I think he needs to be the prime mover in getting straightened out.

I don't think it's just been a 'bad drunk', that's a pretty throw away line and doesn't look at the root of the issue..

He obviously suffers from alcohol abuse, and I would even suggest that he has alcoholic traits identified by his lack of restraint on the weekend.

 

[liquor box]

Agree, how many chances will the ARU & The Rebels give the guy? I don't understand how he can have a month on the sidelines and then be accepted back to the fold only to transgress less than a week later, what was he thinking.

He could have been a great player, but I don't think he'll ever get anywhere near his potential.

I believe in getting a second chance on most things, but KB (Kurtley Beale) has had too many, what message does this send to other players trying to make it in rugby who abide by their contracts and behave in a professional manner?

I think it is time to bid him farewell, he has had enough chances and I dont think the game owes him any help, it was offered and he did not follow the rules.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Bardon - great post - incisive
My point about KB (Kurtley Beale) is the same for all high prfile players who should be a positive influence on the juniors and young adults of our game. How far do you extend the 'olive branch or how many times ? In the business world, counselling etc etc only goes so far. Re-offending generally involves termination. Should it be the same for steroids, recreational drugs (generally addictive in nature)performance enhancing drugs - that is, that continued counselling forever - I think not.

I suppose the real question is: At what point is termination warranted ????

 

[Scrubber2050]

Im all for KB (Kurtley Beale) to get back to being a fabulous rugby player. I think most posters would agree that we'd like to see KB (Kurtley Beale) get control of his life (Most importantly by far) and return to rugby if and when he does.

KB (Kurtley Beale) is probably has a contract of $700,000 to $800,000 per year for the privelage of playing a sport we all love. To keep that in perspective, that about $15,000 per week per year. Maybe his payments should be suspended !!!!

 

[Ruggo]

I think this is a common mythology for dealing with all manner of personal problems. Like most myths, it has some truth to it but certainly isn't the only possible truth, nor even close to that. Sometimes the "let him hit rock bottom" argument is more about the frustration of those around a person than actually doing right by the guy.

Not having a go at you, Ruggo, for making the point. More that I think it would be better if Kurtley had a strong support system around him and is able to remain in a environment where there is the possibility of redemption and a path forward.

I agree Richo. I have stereotyped where people handle these things differently. It is such a grey issue in that regard. I as all just hope he finds the catalyst to address his issues.

 

[jay-c]

im disappointed, but mostly i feel sorry for the bloke- knowing that he doesnt have the mates around him to act in his best interests. hes obviously got a problem and seeing how fit he looks now hes obviously working hard to get back on track... i just hope if i ever have an issue like this, my mates can stand up to me and make the tough choices i cant make myself...

 

[cyclopath]

I don't think it's just been a 'bad drunk', that's a pretty throw away line and doesn't look at the root of the issue..

He obviously suffers from alcohol abuse, and I would even suggest that he has alcoholic traits identified by his lack of restraint on the weekend.

Well, I have actually addressed the root of the issue in my posts. I disagree, as some are positing here, that he is a helpless victim and has no control over his actions in a substantial way. I have known alcoholics, and people who are damned unpleasant when they're drunk, and they are not the same thing. I was not trivialising his problem at all - both need help and support to get past it.

 

[Athilnaur]

Really disappointed in Kurtley. I have no tolerance for getting drunk and punching your captain, but equally this all seems reactionary for a guy who has breached a promise by having a drink with friends celebrating. I have not heard that he hit anyone, or indeed anything that approaches Guildford's follies. I'm happy to chill on it and see what people closer to the situation say. On the face of it a 1 game suspension sounds firm but fair. Just wish it wasn't us fans paying the price.