Kurtley Beale & Quade Cooper (2011 test form)

[disco]

Don't get me wrong I wouldn't have any other fullback in the world in my team but Beale pissed me off last night when he feels the need to always offload the ball.

I still think Beale & Cooper really need to understand that test footy is a different beast to super 15 & sometimes you just have to take the tackle & start again rather than going for the magic play everytime.

 

[wamberal]

In principle, I agree that we do far too much panic offloading. Perhaps Deans needs to throttle them back a bit, and suggest that there are times when it is far better to hasten slowly, particularly when your backrow is dominating the breakdown.

 

[vidiot]

I agree, with the proviso that here are times in your 22 when taking the tackle is a turnover waiting to happen (fielding a kick just out from your goal line with the hounds of hades lining you up) and the miracle kick, offload or step is an option with enormous positive benefits if it comes off.

The attempted miracles that get me are those when you have great front foot ball and momentum.

Cooper wasn't so bad with those last night, he seemed more able to underplay his redonkulousness.

Beales grubber in the 17th minute frustrated me. Samo had just run 140m, great clean out (Fainga'a), Horwill has a good hit up, and Genia sends it on a short blind. Sure, it's congested, but Beales kick goes no where, Weepu kicks the shit out of it and suddenly we're under the pump.

 

[Scotty]

Beale also did this vs the Boks. Cooper does it at least twice a match. It is almost like Beale is trying to keep up with Cooper in the miracle play department.

He doesn't need to. He should just use his feet to beat the first man and look to set up his support, then support the break. Keep it simple and use the skills he is best at.

 

[waratahjesus]

I said this in the other thread, I agree both of them try to hard at times. I actually think quad makes more mistakes, he just sees a lot more ball and we tend to forget the errors when the goods come.

Beale doesn't get the opportunities and I think quad dropping to fullback actually disrupts beaked game a fair bi to.

That said, there the best we have by a long way in both positions and I'm thankful to say that.

 

[Ruggo]

Although they have been on the scene a while now last year was realistically their breakout year. As highly marken men they are probably suffering a bit of second year syndrome. They have just played the SANZAR sides who know their potential and games well. I am curious as to how they will go when unleashed on the NH sides. Neather has been particually bad in saying that.

 

[fatprop]

You don't coach the magic moments out of these two, let them keep making mistakes trying to create something.

My only concern/wish is for Cooper to put his pretty body on the line more often and actually try to tackle. That non attempt on Nonu was disgraceful. There is nothing wrong missing a tackle when you are trying to tackle but not trying .................................. eat some grass boy, bend your back, stick your shoulder into it.

 

[Slim 293]

Cooper's non-attempt on Nonu was just embarassing.

Despite his attacking brilliance, he's just no Bernie.

 

[MrTimms]

Look what happened to Bernie's body though. Wilkinson is another noted defender, how many games did he play between '03 and '07 cup due to injury?

No one is here to say that QC (Quade Cooper) tackles like a machine, defense is still his major weakness, but it has improved, even if there is a howler now and then.

As for defending at the back, Link says name one other sport where your primary attack and play maker is also your primary defender. There isn't many, if any. His lack of time out for injury and they spark he is able to generate from the beginning to the end of a game is testament to this tactic.

Even Dan Carter defends at the back quite a lot, the difference obviously being that he makes some good tackles so it isn't discussed.

 

[fatprop]

Look what happened to Bernie's body though. Wilkinson is another noted defender, how many games did he play between '03 and '07 cup due to injury?

No one is here to say that QC (Quade Cooper) tackles like a machine, defense is still his major weakness, but it has improved, even if there is a howler now and then.

As for defending at the back, Link says name one other sport where your primary attack and play maker is also your primary defender. There isn't many, if any. His lack of time out for injury and they spark he is able to generate from the beginning to the end of a game is testament to this tactic.

Even Dan Carter defends at the back quite a lot, the difference obviously being that he makes some good tackles so it isn't discussed.

All I want is for him to try to tackle

 

[waratahjesus]

Look what happened to Bernie's body though. Wilkinson is another noted defender, how many games did he play between '03 and '07 cup due to injury?

No one is here to say that QC (Quade Cooper) tackles like a machine, defense is still his major weakness, but it has improved, even if there is a howler now and then.

As for defending at the back, Link says name one other sport where your primary attack and play maker is also your primary defender. There isn't many, if any. His lack of time out for injury and they spark he is able to generate from the beginning to the end of a game is testament to this tactic.

Even Dan Carter defends at the back quite a lot, the difference obviously being that he makes some good tackles so it isn't discussed.

I'm over the facts he defends at the back, I think the point that is being made here however is that at times, such as Saturday he just doesn't try. Was he going to stop nonu, prob not, but with his14 team mates turning round to see the guy just shrugs his shoulders and let's him run past. It's shit.

 

[Slim 293]

All I want is for him to try to tackle

Exactly.

It isn't the first time this Tri Nations he's displayed cowardice in the face of contact.

 

[Sully]

I'm over the facts he defends at the back, I think the point that is being made here however is that at times, such as Saturday he just doesn't try. Was he going to stop nonu, prob not, but with his14 team mates turning round to see the guy just shrugs his shoulders and let's him run past. It's shit.

I was there I watched Nonu step. Cooper wasn't within 3 metres of him and wrong footed. Maybe he should pretend to dive to keep you guys happy.

Nonu was awesome.

 

[TOCC]

I was there I watched Nonu step. Cooper wasn't within 3 metres of him and wrong footed. Maybe he should pretend to dive to keep you guys happy.

Nonu was awesome.

Sully your missing the point, why let this get in the way of the chance to call Quade a coward

 

[RedsHappy]

Exactly.

It isn't the first time this Tri Nations he's displayed cowardice in the face of contact.

Slim, cowardice is a very strong term to be using in relation to anyone, including to players. You are quite sure of this, are you?

What do you think goes on inside QC (Quade Cooper) when, in attack with the ball, time and time again, he crashes right into multiple big ABs, Boks, etc. and gets brutally tackled down, do you conclude the 'cowardice switch' is then turned 'off' and, when confronted with a single Nonu at a less physically threatening angle, QC (Quade Cooper) switches 'on' the cowardice button?

 

[EVERYFWDTHINKTHEYREA6OR7]

I like that he defends on the wing. When the oppostion team kicks for field position it's awesome to have him there, being able to tackle or not.

 

[cyclopath]

Slim, I think '"cowardice" is a bit pejorative. Tackle-shy might be better?

 

[Braveheart81]

I don't understand why his defence can't improve. Tackling is a skill like anything else in the game and Quade has plenty of skill. He should be able to learn and improve.

Maybe they just need to incentivise him. Just say to him that each time he misses a tackle at training, Vickers is going to counter ruck the crap out of him.

He'll learn quickly.

 

[Richo]

That, or take away his Twitter machine for an hour every time he misses one.

 

[Slim 293]

Slim, I think '"cowardice" is a bit pejorative. Tackle-shy might be better?

Well, there was that other incident in the first Bledisloe when he threw the ball away on the touchline instead of going into contact...

"Cowardice" might be a strong word but I think it's rather pathetic of him to avoid tough situations and then put in dirty niggly shit off the ball...