Karmichael Hunt charged with cocaine supply.

[Mortal Wombat]

If the police have you done to rights, there's a lot to be said for pleading guilty at the first appearance.

Did Hunt realistically have any other option, even despite the apparent weakness of the state's case?

If he'd plead not guilty, the thing would have dragged on for a lot longer, the whole time he would have stayed suspended. It would have been in the papers every week, building bad publicity for Aussie rugby, and building pressure on the QRU and ARU to be seen to be doing something.

If he got off, he looks like an unrepentant shitbag.

This way, everyone gets to play their most comfortable roles. K as having copped it on the chin and promising not to be a naughty boy again, and the rugby administrators as the tough but fair parent, handing out punishment, but not ostracization.

 

[Scrubber2050]

The one good thing from the matter is that ALL players from ALL codes have been put "on notice"

 

[Strewthcobber]

The one good thing from the matter is that ALL players from ALL codes have been put "on notice"

Yep, they will be much more careful to use anonymous burner phones to their dealers and encrypted whatsapp instead of texts

 

[redveincheese]

Yep, they will be much more careful to use anonymous burner phones to their dealers and encrypted whatsapp instead of texts

To True, I know he must be a busy guy but he should have watched a few episodes of "Breaking bad" or Sons of Anarchy" before embarking on his journey to the dark side.

 

[Quick Hands]

Yep, they will be much more careful to use anonymous burner phones to their dealers and encrypted whatsapp instead of texts

Anyone who discusses anything on a telephone should assume that someone is listening. Mobiles also leaving a permanent record of time, date and place of conversation.

 

[Brumby Runner]

This. I have a feeling that even if they wanted to fire him they would probably have to pay Hunt some sort of fee to break his contract. Can't see them having a clause in the contact stating that prior convictions could result in your contract being terminated and putting the game into disrepute could be a grey area.

Either way, I'm content with the outcome. Disappointed but I still think Hunt is a more respectable character then many other current rugby players.

Well, more respectable perhaps than one Kurtley Beale, but on the evidence who else in the Wallabies or Aus Super teams is of less repute?

 

[Bobby Sands]

Well, more respectable perhaps than one Kurtley Beale, but on the evidence who else in the Wallabies or Aus Super teams is of less repute?

Really? This sort of stuff is below the belt to me. Karmichael has never been anything but the perfect example of professionalism. He is humble, trains hard and earns respect from his peers. He will win back the dent in his reputation, but to say otherwise based on ten years of unblemished success is just poor-taste.

 

[Quick Hands]

Really? This sort of stuff is below the belt to me. Karmichael has never been anything but the perfect example of professionalism. He is humble, trains hard and earns respect from his peers. He will win back the dent in his reputation, but to say otherwise based on ten years of unblemished success is just poor-taste.

He now has the opportunity to earn the respect of the rugby community by his actions on and off the field. Let's hope he does so. Unfortunately some on these threads will carry the hate forever and forgiveness and rehabilitation aren't in their vocabulary as past events have shown. (Not even the findings of a District Court judge are good enough for them - and there was no criminal charges brought in that particular case)

 

[Brumby Runner]

He now has the opportunity to earn the respect of the rugby community by his actions on and off the field. Let's hope he does so. Unfortunately some on these threads will carry the hate forever and forgiveness and rehabilitation aren't in their vocabulary as past events have shown. (Not even the findings of a District Court judge are good enough for them - and there was no criminal charges brought in that particular case)

I am quite content with the outcome of this matter, and I have no hate for KH at all. The comment was made that he is a more respectable character than many other current rugby players which I inferred to mean in this country. I simply asked who those others are, because atm I am not aware of any who have had drugs charges or other matters that might impugn their reputations brought against them. Fair question I would have thought.

It is now entirely in KH's hands as to how he regains and retains his reputation. I hope he can rise to that.

 

[liquor box]

There has been a lot of talk about a weak case by the police or CCC.

I dont think for a second it is a weak case. QPS and CCC are not going to have such a high profile case and not have sufficient evidence. The key word is sufficient.

Many grubs are charged and found guilty on not much evidence, there are other charges that could have been laid and were not.

Possess things used in the commission of a crime (supply or possess) comes to mind, the police could seize his phone and since the phone was used to purchase drugs then it represents the "thing".

This is a great charge that allows people to be charged for simply possessing a bowl that contained (note past tense) cannabis, or an empty clip seal bag.

There are also charges for allowing your dwelling to be used for drugs, if you let someone smoke or snort at your house then you can be charged.

I think Khunt was lucky that he did not deal with a policeman who wanted to fuck him over.

 

[USARugger]

There has been a lot of talk about a weak case by the police or CCC.

I dont think for a second it is a weak case. QPS and CCC are not going to have such a high profile case and not have sufficient evidence. The key word is sufficient.

Why not, are they both infallible bodies?

Their entire case seems to be based around a bit of legalese in QLD that allows for "supply" charges to be laid on anyone supplying "to another" - which includes the person in question. I'll leave that one for the myriad of Greek Philosophers to ponder over in their graves.

The fact that Hunt's lawyers were able to get the charges dropped to simple possession so quickly, the fact the CCC has zero evidence of Hunt offering to supply drug to others, and the complete and total lack of physical evidence of any kind regarding Hunt's alleged transactions or the cocaine itself..

This was a very weak case, in terms of KH. The police prosecutor involved in the case didn't even submit evidence of any kind during the hearing. This was the primary catalyst for the charges being dropped down to possession.

I seriously doubt he was the fish they were angling for to begin with anyway, so it's not really surprising. It's only "high profile" because of the name of the person whom exchanged phone calls and text messages with the man they were likely actually after. For all we know Hunt is now working with QPS/CCC and that was the entire reason they picked him up to begin with. It's not exactly an uncommon law enforcement tactic when it comes to attempting to catch drug traffickers.

I also don't think our legal systems are so different to the point where the reason(s) a Police officer initially arrested a suspect mean sweet FA in regards to what he's charged with in a courtroom, because that's almost entirely the realm of the prosecuting attorney(s) and based upon the evidence which the Police or other investigatory body can bring to the case.

TL;DR - the case laid against KH for "supply" was piss-weak and the QPS/CCC likely are trying to set themselves up for a lay-up and were never trying to charge the paint and put up a slam dunk on KH in the first place.

 

[Happy]

Actually our legal systems are completely different. The Police lay charges and prosecute the case, not a District Attorney or similar. Originally there were Police prosecutors but that function has been largely handed to the Director of Public Prosecutions. Even so, the roles of a DA and DPP are very different, and we don't have Grand Juries or even anything similar, nor do we have the myriad of jurisdictions the U.S. seems to have.

The Police have a very good idea of the evidence needed to prove a particular offence, and if you think they will proceed with a case lacking any of the required proofs, you are mistaken, especially when it is a high profile defendant.

In the few cases where an offence isn't proved, it is usually because some part of the evidence has been precluded on technical grounds due to legal arguments, not because that evidence hadn't been collected.

 

[Quick Hands]

I am quite content with the outcome of this matter, and I have no hate for KH at all. The comment was made that he is a more respectable character than many other current rugby players which I inferred to mean in this country. I simply asked who those others are, because atm I am not aware of any who have had drugs charges or other matters that might impugn their reputations brought against them. Fair question I would have thought.

It is now entirely in KH's hands as to how he regains and retains his reputation. I hope he can rise to that.

I was referring to another individual that you mentioned (not on drug charges).

 

[Quick Hands]

Why not, are they both infallible bodies?

Their entire case seems to be based around a bit of legalese in QLD that allows for "supply" charges to be laid on anyone supplying "to another" - which includes the person in question. I'll leave that one for the myriad of Greek Philosophers to ponder over in their graves.

The fact that Hunt's lawyers were able to get the charges dropped to simple possession so quickly, the fact the CCC has zero evidence of Hunt offering to supply drug to others, and the complete and total lack of physical evidence of any kind regarding Hunt's alleged transactions or the cocaine itself..

This was a very weak case, in terms of KH. The police prosecutor involved in the case didn't even submit evidence of any kind during the hearing. This was the primary catalyst for the charges being dropped down to possession.

I seriously doubt he was the fish they were angling for to begin with anyway, so it's not really surprising. It's only "high profile" because of the name of the person whom exchanged phone calls and text messages with the man they were likely actually after. For all we know Hunt is now working with QPS/CCC and that was the entire reason they picked him up to begin with. It's not exactly an uncommon law enforcement tactic when it comes to attempting to catch drug traffickers.

I also don't think our legal systems are so different to the point where the reason(s) a Police officer initially arrested a suspect mean sweet FA in regards to what he's charged with in a courtroom, because that's almost entirely the realm of the prosecuting attorney(s) and based upon the evidence which the Police or other investigatory body can bring to the case.

TL;DR - the case laid against KH for "supply" was piss-weak and the QPS/CCC likely are trying to set themselves up for a lay-up and were never trying to charge the paint and put up a slam dunk on KH in the first place.

I think you demonstrate a complete misunderstanding of how the legal system works in Australia.

I'd be interested how you know the precise catalyst for charges been dropped or downgraded and how you are aware what evidence the authorities do or don't have.

 

[BDA]

There has been a lot of talk about a weak case by the police or CCC.

I dont think for a second it is a weak case. QPS and CCC are not going to have such a high profile case and not have sufficient evidence. The key word is sufficient.

Based on the allegations known to date, the case is weak. The question is whether the CCC will present other evidence. I assume they will be trying their best to get someone to give evidence against these footballers. If someone dogs, the case all of a sudden has some prospects.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

I dont understand wft is going on here at all. Are drugs now legal in Australia? Why isnt this dude going to prison? I was hoping for some rodeo in Joliet action as that would greatly bolster his chances of nailing down a starting spot in The All-Time Crims 1st XV.

To make the starting XV, with just ONE match of competitive rugby under your belt would be quite the feat. Some of the drongos in the crims WTG have been running around drunk and naked in Rarotonga for YEARS trying to get some attention.

 

[boyo]

One of the newspaper reports featured a text message from Hunt that said something like:

"After a big one because I have mates who are pretty keen."

 

[Quick Hands]

Based on the allegations known to date, the case is weak. The question is whether the CCC will present other evidence. I assume they will be trying their best to get someone to give evidence against these footballers. If someone dogs, the case all of a sudden has some prospects.

A more likely explanation (and I have no idea of the specifics - I speak in general terms), is that level of criminality involved is quite low and therefore accepting a plea to possession would involve a similar penalty to the supply charge without the cost of prosecuting a defended matter.

 

[BDA]

it's funny how everyone was making a big deal about this issue, but as soon as Hunt pleads guilty, he's vindicated. It tells me that people in general don't care that he was buying cocaine, they just wanted to see him punished.

If these charges are so trivial, why are they being advanced in the first place, and why would we care if the defendants want to defend their reputations.

 

[Quick Hands]

it's funny how everyone was making a big deal about this issue, but as soon as Hunt pleads guilty, he's vindicated. It tells me that people in general don't care that he was buying cocaine, they just wanted to see him punished.

If these charges are so trivial, why are they being advanced in the first place, and why would we care if the defendants want to defend their reputations.

The charges were probably advanced in the first place because the police are obliged to prosecute when they have evidence of a breach of the law.

I don't think people see KH as being vindicted, what they probably see is a person who has done the wrong thing, admitted it, taken his punishment without complaint and has stated his intention to learn his lesson and move on. This is actually how the criminal justice system is supposed to work (assuming that the person is guilty of course).