Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
Can we see a scenario where Timani and Douglas are the starting 4/5 for the Men in Gold with Big Kev coming off the bench at about 50 minutes in and really stroppy, ready to bite the heads off some fruit bats.
Kane Douglas
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TOCC
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the guy had a good debut... but i want to see him put in some consistent performances against teams like the AB's and Boks before we go singing his praises too much..
I remember David Lyon's debut against Argentina in the 2003 RWC following Toutai Kefu's injury.... everyone was saying after the match "toutai who"
I remember David Lyon's debut against Argentina in the 2003 RWC following Toutai Kefu's injury.... everyone was saying after the match "toutai who"
Lyons was superb that game, but his debut was 3 years earlier v the Pumas in Briso. Morty's debut and the test Latho scored 4.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Yep - that's where they scrummed this year when they locked together.
Brumbieman
Dick Tooth (41)
The difference is mainly the amount of pressure from the opposition scrum coming down each side. The tight head prop is under a lot more pressure as he's bound in on the opposite loosehead and hooker, where the loosehead prop is only pushing against the opposite tighthead. Generally, you want your strongest second rower behind the tighthead to help absorb that pressure. It also helps balance your scrum so its not as easy to turn. The loosehead lock has to balance trying to hold the scrum straight and try to wheel it by forcing the opposition tighthead back.
It wouldn't take much to pick up what you need to do in the scrum, especially for those guys at the level theyre playing at.
Personally I was generally loosehead lock despite being one of the biggest guys on the park. It was a lot more comfortable for me and I was alright when picking the moment to put pressure. But I could also play tighthead lock as well if needed, and Im sure its the same for Douglas, Sharpe, Horwill, Simmons etc
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Exactly right.
And the effect of pressure mentioned by Nelse is magnified by the modern power hit. It was becoming obvious about the middle of the last decade that professional teams had been training their packs to sprint a few inches to get an edge on the engage. It was also clear that the THPs needed more stability to take the shock, than was the case at the start of the professional era in 1995/96.
I think I noticed it first and started writing about it during the 2005 Wallaby EOYT. All Aussie rugby fans will remember the match against England at Twickenham. Poor old Hugh McMeniman was the TH lock that day and Nathan Sharpe was on his accustomed comfy LH side. Sheridan drove through Cannon and Baxter, and 3M lost his bind on Sharpie.
Perhaps the power hit had nothing to do with that incident because Sheridan destroyed a few scrums in different circumstances, but it got me thinking about the consequences of not having a strong TH lock.
Gone are the days when a professional rugby team can have an athletic, less strong guy like John Eales packing on the TH side. If you have an athletic lock you want him on the LH side anyway because he can get out of the scrum sooner on the left especially if that happens to be the open side, because the 7 usually disappears early.
Best of all is having two strong guys and both athletic, and both able to be lineout quarterbacks calling the plays, in case the other is replaced.
Was that a pig I saw flying outside?
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J
Jiggles
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I play 6 and THL at a pinch, although I am getting a bit too old for rugby these days, and what Nelse and Lee described is pretty accurate. Personally I find THL easier to play as its more of an anchor type role. LHL requires a lot more skill and finesse in working the scrum around to where you want it to go.
In the teams I have played in at a higher level the scrum has codes for certain situations depending on how we want the end situation of the scrum to be, regardless of whether its our ball or the oppositions. In most cases this is called by LHL and worked by the LH side of the scrum while the TH side anchors, bores in, applies pressure or drops away etc. as needed.
I think you also cannot underestimate the role of the flankers in the scrum too. Their real role is to wedge the props, in particular the THP, in place when the hit comes and absorbe a lot of the pressure. This is keep the THP square if he misses the hit. Its much easier to recover if you have a bit of pressure keeping you square. My props can really tell when I take a scrum a bit too easy at 6 and they usually give me a serve.
In the teams I have played in at a higher level the scrum has codes for certain situations depending on how we want the end situation of the scrum to be, regardless of whether its our ball or the oppositions. In most cases this is called by LHL and worked by the LH side of the scrum while the TH side anchors, bores in, applies pressure or drops away etc. as needed.
I think you also cannot underestimate the role of the flankers in the scrum too. Their real role is to wedge the props, in particular the THP, in place when the hit comes and absorbe a lot of the pressure. This is keep the THP square if he misses the hit. Its much easier to recover if you have a bit of pressure keeping you square. My props can really tell when I take a scrum a bit too easy at 6 and they usually give me a serve.
It is what it is
John Solomon (38)
Tahs desperately need another lock with grunt to back up Timani & Douglas.
Just don't see it coming from the back ups currently within the squad.
qwerty51
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Yep agree. Do not rate Peterson at all, Atkins is a bit raw and Holloway too young at this point in time.
Imagine if Vickerman was fit. Douglas, Timani and Vickerman in the 22. I wouldn't want to be an opposition second rower.
Disagree, they need mobility to complement the big boppers. But they have another giant in Greg Peterson (dunno how that will work out) and Ollie Atkins - who may provide that and probably Jed Hollaway in the EPS. I also expect Dennis to finish some games at lock
J
Jiggles
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fixed that for you.
It is what it is
John Solomon (38)
Bring Neville back from the Rebels.
en_force_er
Geoff Shaw (53)
I believe Neville was loosely linked to the Brums before the Rebels and never to the Tahs.
Forcefield
Ken Catchpole (46)
Why did that need fixing. The Reds scrum is far softer than the Force's and Shark's.
J
Jiggles
Guest
Sorry cant really see Horwill, Simmons and AWH caring about how tough the Tahs second rows may be, or some perceived weakness, with 1 Super Rugby and 2 Confrence Titles under their belts.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
I think the poster meant he would want him back in Sydney.
You are right about Neville. I first saw him, outside of club rugby, playing a game for the Brumby Runners early in 2011 at TG Milner in a heat wave and I was impressed. Greg Petersons' dad told me of his rowing history and how little rugby he had played.
I was impressed all the more - and have been ever since.
Neville's games at 6 for Manly at the end of the 2012 SS season raised my eyebrows even further. As I have mentioned before: he is like another 3M. [Therefore don't play him as a TH lock just yet.]
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Stats hey? I like many was a fan of Kane's performance v the Argies.
Explain this though, stats from here:
3 tackles, 1 run (for 12m) and 1 ruck/maul hit
Compare to Sharpie with: 5 tackles, 10 runs, 9 ruck/mauls
and BA with 5, 10 and 11.
In fact Douglas, from these stats, had the lowest work rate of the entire pack by some way. A mistake?
Explain this though, stats from here:
3 tackles, 1 run (for 12m) and 1 ruck/maul hit
Compare to Sharpie with: 5 tackles, 10 runs, 9 ruck/mauls
and BA with 5, 10 and 11.
In fact Douglas, from these stats, had the lowest work rate of the entire pack by some way. A mistake?
here is a silly question, how are the ruck stats measured?
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