Jones bombs Israel
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I don't think we should bone him, but until DHP was injured, I thought Folau should go to the wing with DHP at fullback.. I'm reluctant to say Karmichael at fullback, but he is making a good show of it.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Assuming that: Folau would not get a game for the ABs - even mid-week if such things still existed.
Byrne should not spend too much of his reputation defending players like him - he will lose the lustre of credibility conferred on him by the sublime skills of the ABs: he's a skills coach and Folau's basics ( catch, pass, kick and tackle) are pretty poor.
The ARU needs to continue working with Folau for the duration of his contract because he's the highest profile player we have and even when down on form is still there or there abouts for Wallaby selection. Odds are he will be in the Wallabies matchday 23 this year and based on history, he'll probably go well.
If his form doesn't improve, that definitely needs to be carefully considered when he is off contract. It is becoming pretty clear that the ARU shouldn't be paying him to be the highest paid player in Australian rugby next time around.
If his form doesn't improve, that definitely needs to be carefully considered when he is off contract. It is becoming pretty clear that the ARU shouldn't be paying him to be the highest paid player in Australian rugby next time around.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Do you really think that there are kids out there making decisions to play or not play because of Folau? I ask seriously because I doubt it but I have no up-to-date experience of young kids.
I can recall many moons ago when Benji Marshall burst on the scene and all the kids were doing his goose step-hop-thing: is Izzie at this level of "recognition" these days?
Not really, but Folau would still have the biggest public profile of all our players.
He's on contract for some time yet so it would be silly for the ARU not to try and get the most out of it.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
I get the feeling that he's not on the radar of wavering kids much.
having him on such a long contract is equally silly - but I get your point
He is contracted until the end of 2018.
After being our best player for a couple of years I don't think it was surprising that the ARU were so keen to sign him up for an extended period of time when his contract was expiring in 2015.
mst
Peter Johnson (47)
Generally I agree with what your saying except when did form mean anything come Wallabies selection time.
mst
Peter Johnson (47)
Sorry BH, it was meant in jest.
But I cant resit asking with the opening you gave me; what form was it that got Sam Carter his top up?
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
We part company on this.
He is a prime case of a player Cheika falls in love with who is not as good as Cheika thinks and in this case never was.
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
IS, I disagree. Folau was for most of that time regarded in the same category as Dagg and Ben Smith. Up amongst the top No 15s in the world, and rightfully so imo. His drop in form seems to have coincided with his move to 13 in the Tahs. Give him time at 15 and he'll be thereabouts for the Wallabies again.
And in answer to BH, surely the highest paid player should now be Alan Ala'alatoa, the likely starting THP come RWC?
And in answer to BH, surely the highest paid player should now be Alan Ala'alatoa, the likely starting THP come RWC?
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
To be fair, Folau's form at 13 for the Tahs last year was very impressive and many people, especially on this forum, were calling for him to play there for the Wobs............
I don't believe where he's been playing this year has anything to do with it, and there's also some serious revisionist history going on regarding his prior form for the Wallabies and Tahs.
I don't believe where he's been playing this year has anything to do with it, and there's also some serious revisionist history going on regarding his prior form for the Wallabies and Tahs.
No, because he doesn't need to be.
Whilst he is critical to the Wallaby chances, he doesn't attract the 3rd party deals that the ARU uses to help boost someone like Israel Folau's salary and won't attract the massive offers overseas that seem reserved for backs.
Take a look at the highest paid players in world rugby. None of them are props.
They might be of greatest importance to their sides, but that doesn't mean they get paid the most.
Agreed. He hasn't really been any better at fullback.
Hopefully Rob Horne stays healthy and Folau can play the remainder of the season in the 15 jersey.
Micheal
Alan Cameron (40)
Has he really been performing that badly in 2017?
Generally, the best we can ask of a player is to perform excellently relative to their team. It would be unfair to compare his attacking stats to those of a Hurricanes / Crusaders outside back (although I will do so), as his attacking opportunities simply haven't been the same. With that in mind*:
Israel is 3rd in the Waratahs for line breaks with 5, behind Hooper and Kellaway on 9 each.
He's first on tackle-busts, with 24. The next best are Hooper and Kellaway respectively, with 21 and 17.
He's first for offloads completed, with 11. The next best are Foley with 9 and Taqele with 7.
He's equal 1st in terms of tries scored, with 3. Gordon, Hooper and Taqele also all have three to their names.
He's first in terms of run metres, with 632. The next best are Hooper and Kellaway with 601 and 395 respectively. Evidently, there is a huge drop-off here.
In all attacking metrics he is leading the pack, or thereabouts. He has also only conceded a single penalty.
He's played almost the same number of minutes as Henry Speight, who by all accounts has been excelling in attack this season in a team that has outperformed the Waratahs. His stats are as follows:
Tries: 6 (>Folau)
Running metres: 568 (<Folau)
LB: 12 (>Folau)
TB: 30 (>Folau)
Offload: 4 (<Folau)
Penalties Conceded: 5 (>Folau)
Three metrics go Speights way, three go Folaus. Not much between them.
Relative to Julian Savea, who has played in the best attacking side of the competition:
Tries: 5 (>Folau)
Running metres: 590 (>Folau)
LB: 10 (>Folau)
TB: 18 (<Folau)
Offload: 5 (<Folau)
Penalties Conceded: 0 (<Folau)
All bar two metrics go Saveas way, but none of them by a considerable amount. Savea has been slightly better in a team that has been far better.
What should we take from this?
Folau has actually been pretty good, relative to both his team and similar players in teams that have been far more successful - just as he was last season, both in Super Rugby and internationally, despite the immense criticism he's received.
I think we set our expectations too high because of his profile and his past performance. Everyone refers to the 1st Lions test, where he essentially carried the Wallabies attacking performance. Can we expect that from him every game? No. Should we expect that from him every game? No.
Has he been consistently performing at a high level? Yes.
I think he's had a pretty good season and I'm glad the stats reinforce that.
"The Waratahs gone and done lost too many games - why can't Izzy Folau win dem all for us?"
* all stats taken from Foxsports.
Generally, the best we can ask of a player is to perform excellently relative to their team. It would be unfair to compare his attacking stats to those of a Hurricanes / Crusaders outside back (although I will do so), as his attacking opportunities simply haven't been the same. With that in mind*:
Israel is 3rd in the Waratahs for line breaks with 5, behind Hooper and Kellaway on 9 each.
He's first on tackle-busts, with 24. The next best are Hooper and Kellaway respectively, with 21 and 17.
He's first for offloads completed, with 11. The next best are Foley with 9 and Taqele with 7.
He's equal 1st in terms of tries scored, with 3. Gordon, Hooper and Taqele also all have three to their names.
He's first in terms of run metres, with 632. The next best are Hooper and Kellaway with 601 and 395 respectively. Evidently, there is a huge drop-off here.
In all attacking metrics he is leading the pack, or thereabouts. He has also only conceded a single penalty.
He's played almost the same number of minutes as Henry Speight, who by all accounts has been excelling in attack this season in a team that has outperformed the Waratahs. His stats are as follows:
Tries: 6 (>Folau)
Running metres: 568 (<Folau)
LB: 12 (>Folau)
TB: 30 (>Folau)
Offload: 4 (<Folau)
Penalties Conceded: 5 (>Folau)
Three metrics go Speights way, three go Folaus. Not much between them.
Relative to Julian Savea, who has played in the best attacking side of the competition:
Tries: 5 (>Folau)
Running metres: 590 (>Folau)
LB: 10 (>Folau)
TB: 18 (<Folau)
Offload: 5 (<Folau)
Penalties Conceded: 0 (<Folau)
All bar two metrics go Saveas way, but none of them by a considerable amount. Savea has been slightly better in a team that has been far better.
What should we take from this?
Folau has actually been pretty good, relative to both his team and similar players in teams that have been far more successful - just as he was last season, both in Super Rugby and internationally, despite the immense criticism he's received.
I think we set our expectations too high because of his profile and his past performance. Everyone refers to the 1st Lions test, where he essentially carried the Wallabies attacking performance. Can we expect that from him every game? No. Should we expect that from him every game? No.
Has he been consistently performing at a high level? Yes.
I think he's had a pretty good season and I'm glad the stats reinforce that.
"The Waratahs gone and done lost too many games - why can't Izzy Folau win dem all for us?"
* all stats taken from Foxsports.
Clearly the expectation of Folau is high and deservedly so.
I think a big part of the disappointment is that he hasn't been a leader within this side when the chips are down.
With Foley and Horne missing a number of games through injury and Phipps being dropped due to poor form, Folau needed to be the guy to stand up and help direct the backline and give them some direction. He really hasn't done that.
His play has been reasonable without being near his best (which is a very high level).
As a player in his fifth year with the Tahs with over 50 tests, I think you expect him to be one of the senior leaders within the side.
Micheal
Alan Cameron (40)
That I can understand, but I've never really looked at him as a leader.
His game has always been very individualistic and by nature I see him more as a strike weapon who should focus on being a strike weapon, much in the Savea / North etc. role.
But I can see why others would want him to be more.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
The qualifying stat that is missing and needs to be examined is time played.
Then we need to analyse the running metres with regard to kick returns in open field or on attack from rucks as these will hyper inflate the metres gained unopposed.
As always stats are useful but need to be considered in the light of inherent errors and implied outcomes that may not be real.
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