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JON sets Wallabies the target of becoming No1 by end 2012

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Dan54

David Wilson (68)
We didn't achieve our objective, had no perceivable game plans, played horrific footy by and large, and failed at regular failings (set piece)

If JO'N pokes up with it, he's lost his edge




I see you don't disappoint with the petty trolling

So who should be No 1 if he's trolling Gagger?? I still think syustem has pretty well got it sorted, and ABs are 1, I think Wallabies are 2, and Boks 3. Because he happy that ABs are 1 doesn't make him a troll, anymore than anyone being happy if wallabies make no 1 a troll.
 

louie

Desmond Connor (43)
Maybe i just wish there was more honesty about the process. If the years to this world cup were about rebuilding then just say so.

Failure is losing to Ireland, Samoa and Scotland.

I'm happy with the position and potential the Wallabies have. I'm just not happy about deans being the man in control.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Silly comment. He won 88 professional tournaments, 20 on the US PGA Tour. He may not have won many majors, but placed very highly in lots, and was very consistent. But I understand snide swipes at Greg is an Australian pastime.
Silly comments.
It wasn't really a dig at him he was just the first and best example I could think of.
There must have been years was he #1 without winning?
The stats you quote amount to less than 1 win a year in the Usa, 33 pro wins were in oz: hardly the pointy end of world golf
What's more you actually repeated my very point without apparently realising it.
There's nothing snide about it: the guy is an ego maniacal fruit cake.
But a very rich one.
It was just by way of example I don't really want to debate his merits I will leave that to Roy & HG on the life
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
India's reign as number 1 was dogged by lots of non-Indians saying they didn't deserve it. Interestingly, the same isn't true of England as far as I can see. Overall I think the rugby ranking system works fairly well tbh, Wales will feel annoyed at their rank, but losing to every team ranked above them that they played at the RWC is never going to improve your ranking. The ABs are clearly the best and spots 2-8 are pretty contentious, sounds about right to me.

I am generally speaking a little surprised how deep the anti-JON sentiment runs here. I like the goal of world number 1, maybe I've written off the reappointment and subsequent shielding of Deans a bit more than most posters here. It's done, his position is therefore safe pretty much till the Lions tour barring a wooden spoon in the 4N and a winless EOYT. He's been set an attainable but fairly immediate and challenging goal that we all want to see. I'm hoping for the best.

And yes I'm being overly optimistic and passive regarding some mismangaement, but I'd prefer to somewhat blindly look forward as it's less depressing, and I think having get to number 1 ASAP is a much better goal than win in 2013/2015.

I assume Jon had someone ensure that there were enough points on offer for us to overtake nz
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Most of them, actually. Who, besides NZ, achieves the kind of success some seem to feel we must expect? You can sit here and expect us to win 70-80% of Tests, but I suspect that is unrealistic, especially given the number of Tests we play against top 3 opposition. I'd be stoked if we did, but I'm more of a realist. If the coaches of Wales, Ireland, Scotland and England beat SA and NZ in one season, they'd get a raise!
That does not mean I am totally happy with where we are, not at all. We should be more consistent, and the Samoa type aberrations need to be done away with.

Those aberrations are the defining characteristic of Australian rugby through the ages, they can't be done away with
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Silly comments.
It wasn't really a dig at him he was just the first and best example I could think of.
There must have been years was he #1 without winning?
The stats you quote amount to less than 1 win a year in the Usa, 33 pro wins were in oz: hardly the pointy end of world golf
What's more you actually repeated my very point without apparently realising it.
There's nothing snide about it: the guy is an ego maniacal fruit cake.
But a very rich one.
It was just by way of example I don't really want to debate his merits I will leave that to Roy & HG on the life
1 year he was number 1 without multiple wins - 1987. The other 6 years he finished season at number one, he won multiple times in each. So your point is pretty flawed.
Save the condescension that others can't understand your complex machinations, IS, you aren't that clever.
For someone "not having a dig at him", to then refer to him as an egomaniacal fruit-cake seems disingenuous.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
1 year he was number 1 without multiple wins - 1987. The other 6 years he finished season at number one, he won multiple times in each. So your point is pretty flawed.
Save the condescension that others can't understand your complex machinations, IS, you aren't that clever.
For someone "not having a dig at him", to then refer to him as an egomaniacal fruit-cake seems disingenuous.

That was after you had accused me of it
My point is proved by the 1 year and just so you don't engage in any more distortion that point was: "golf is a special case because you dont even need to win a tournament to be #1"
surely you're used to condescension
 

Lance Free

Arch Winning (36)
I don't normally comment too much in the Forum these days. But, from someone who has not been 'Mr Positive' over the years about the Wallabies, the extreme and cynical negativism that I see pervading the G&GR Forum website at the moment about Robbie Deans (and vicariously, JON) is disappointing.

We lost to Scotland in 2009, two friggin' years ago. Samoa wasn't great either but it was the first game of the season, and we seriously underestimated them. Paid the price.

Link isn't the Messiah, neither is Deans. We've got a very young team and when the maturity takes hold I think we'll come close to challenging for No 1.

Let's face it, whether you like it or not, the ABs have had the wood on us for years. Deans not up to it? But many of you say that Deans doesn't actually develop the players? So that means the Australian system isn't up to it?

The reality is that New Zealand have stronger systems, structures and rugby cultures than we do. That's a fact and I've got no argument with that. I'm hoping that we can overcome our disadvantage occasionally to combat this scenario. But architecture wise, we're not up to their standard.

I reckon if I coached the Wallabies we'd probably go down a notch or two in world rankings. However, if I coached the ABs we'd still be No. 1. Why? They've got the cattle and the structure.

A quote from Brendan Venter yesterday (someone who you'd think knows what's going on):

"Australia have been second only to New Zealand over the past two years because Robbie Deans is an old-fashioned coach like Jim Mallinder. He is there on the training paddock coaching the sessions and calling the shots."

"Deans won numerous Super Rugby titles with the Crusaders as a pure head coach and the Australian Rugby Union were very smart to get this kind of leader locked into a long contract."

And by the way, it's only a fuckin' game!!!!!
 

Lindommer

Simon Poidevin (60)
Staff member
Would you all please forgive me for acting my age but I reckon we're chewing through a considerable amount of goodwill here. I know quite a few of you blokes (including JON) personally and I respect your points of view, I really do. Robust debate is welcomed here but there comes a point when we have to agree to disagree; for me that point on this issue has been reached. To continue this disagreement in the tenor in which it has in the immediate past isn't going to do anything for the future of debate on G&GR.

Could the combatants all please take a step backwards.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
That was after you had accused me of it
My point is proved by the 1 year and just so you don't engage in any more distortion that point was: "golf is a special case because you dont even need to win a tournament to be #1"
surely you're used to condescension
No, your point is not proved, it is weak. Outlying data is unlikely to be significant over 20 something years of rankings.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Norman did not win a tournament in a year in which he was ranked 1 = don't need to win a tournament to be #1
Case closed
Good evening
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
My grandfather smoked and lived to 94, so smoking is good for you.
Anyway, Rule 10.
Added to my ignore list.
Don't let the bed-bugs bite.
 

Schadenfreude

John Solomon (38)
Aiming for number one is great - in my opinion, everyone should aim to be number one, so it doesn't need to be stated, but fine.

I think there's massive frustration, that there doesn't ever seem to be a plan to achieve that goal. I was in the stadium when Scotland beat the wallabies, the scots deserved to win - they were tactically superior.

The same with the Samoa game, the best prepared team won.

Ireland showed what a game plan can do - they completely shut us down.

The tri-nations win wasn't always against full strength teams. So even though it goes in the books it's not really a memorable victory.

I think that's the frustration - that we have the players but they aren't coached to perform consistently and with a plan b if plan a doesn't work.
 

Schadenfreude

John Solomon (38)
I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it.
Voltaire
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)
 

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
Where else could a boy from western qld talk rugby and learn Voltaire quotes! TSF? I think not.
 
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