John I. Dent Cup 2017 - ACT Premier Rugby

[bluebags]

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said Qbn are pretty much the same team as last year. Obviously stability is good but I get the sense Qbn are stale. I think you need a mix of fresh players coming through to rejuvenate the rest of the team. I think we saw that today with Tuggies - guys on debut and a lot of new faces. I think Qbn need to do some recruiting and freshen a few guys up with a stint in 2s or 3s.

I have to admit that after posting my early tips, I was tempted to adjust them when reading the team-lists. Felt for sure that the whites experience would get the better of the Vikings . Was critical at times last year of Vikings coaching staff not using young guys and subs during games, and to use as many as they did yesterday against a team like Whites, was pretty gutsy.

 

[No.8]

Queanbeyan just simply looked tired/uninterested/or unfit yesterday - very lackluster - no strike power at all, poor defence and their lineouts were terrible - Queanbeyan didn't have the passion they normally have.

As mentioned in other posts they have a very similar side to last year - but look like a totally different side - could of just been an off day but possibly not....this could be a long season for them.

They need some fresh players, they need to work of their depth and they need to sort out their set piece.

Penca tried extremely hard to motivate his team, he was everywhere - even putting in some chip kicks, JR tried hard aswell, so did the new Kicking winger - Angus?

Their 2nd grade side played extremely well - the No.12, No.9, No.15 from 2nd grade should hopefully get a look-in for first grade spots. Plus Carl Elliot is back from injury and will play 1st grade next week - he is a big impact player/get at scrum and lineout time.

I think they are also missing some quality props - not overly impressed with any of the current Whites props at the moment unfortunately - they are def missing Barbs who is/was prob the best scrummager in the comp.

P.S where are the Fainga'a brothers - I thought we would of seen them in White by now....

Queanbeyan did come up against an extremely good Vikings side though - I honestly think a more complete side than previous years - their forwards were just insanely good - was VERY impressed with the No.3 who was a colt last year - all of them played well.

Queanbeyan now have a decision to make within themselves - you either take this loss and use it as a positive or you let it beat you - if they let it beat them as mentioned it could be a long season for the mighty Whites.

 

[bluebags]

I have to admit that after posting my early tips, I was tempted to adjust them when reading the team-lists. Felt for sure that the whites experience would get the better of the Vikings . Was critical at times last year of Vikings coaching staff not using young guys and subs during games, and to use as many as they did yesterday against a team like Whites, was pretty gutsy.

In saying this, wonder if the Tuggers coaches are brave enough to keep the same side next week and beyond, and build on this young team. I wonder if the fly in-fly out nature of brumbies players is necessarily a good thing, as well as returning players from injury...Ernest comes to mind.

 

[forwards4ever]

That's a disappointing result for Unis. How did the second half end up going 49 minutes? Did Wests control it for a thousand phases after the bell or did the time keeper fall asleep?

Fair bit of injury time! And then the obscure moment that the ref seemed to have called time but then continued the game, with a penalty to Wests.

 

[macka_au]

G'day Fellas,

apologies for my lack of contribution recently I've welcomed a new addition to the family and haven't been able to get down and watch any footy!

I was able to get down and watch 1st and 2nd grade at Viking park. I'd be interested to know what the QBN guys thought of the refereeing in 2nd grade as it appeared to me he (the referee) was not willing to work with the players or provide any clarification around his decisions. Penalty count was very one sided and seemed the tuggeranong players grew very frustrated.

Having said all that it was a very dominant performance from QBN especially in the backline. Tuggies 10, 12 and 13 didn't appear to talk to each other at all which allowed for a quality QBN backline to run riot. I thought the Vikings pack was good especially at set-piece they started to get a bit of dominance in both scrum and lineout but it wasn't enough. Overall a great performance from QBN and a much deserved win.

Onto 1st grade as a side note many of the criticisms I have of the referee in 2nd grade i have about the guy who did 1sts. It's gotta be hard for players when the referee's won't engage in a short discussion after a decision. I feel like it's lost on some referee's that the players are just trying to figure it out so it doesn't happen again.

Anyway, a truly dominant performance from the Vikings I was surprised by some of the names in the program and was a little worried that it might be a tight game. Again Vikings set-piece was good (obviously a work on for them after last year) and the backs found a lot of space. I thought Hyne and Tonga were stand outs for the Vikings.

Penca was great (as usual) but it was almost like he was carrying the entire load himself (obviously losing Noa and Ndruku doesn't help and may have forced his hand a little).

It's not often you see a QBN side get beat like that in recent times and it's hard to say at this point if tuggeranong are that good or QBN had a really bad day. Maybe a bit of both? I really don't know.


As far as selection goes i think there's going to be some real headaches. I understand Mcgrath is coming back from an injury and you'd think they'd at least give him a crack in the top grade now that Kite and Lomax have moved on, with his experience it seems to make sense. having said that Wagner and Taula were really solid on saturday so who would you drop? Obviously Suavai coming back (another experienced player) maybe giltrap moves to the wing and murray drops back to 2nds? But then Jake knight (another very experienced player) is also due to come back which again displaces one of langtry/murray/giltrap. You've also gotta factor in the O-H boys (again experience) are yet to return to full fitness so someone gets dropped from the backrow/second row to accomodate both of them (or one of the plays 2nds). Again after saturday who do you drop?

I don't envy Tim Sampson!

Anyway I'll try and contribute as much as I can now that we're a bit more settled.

Hopefully this is enough to get some discussion going!

 

[Istanbul]

G'day Fellas,

apologies for my lack of contribution recently I've welcomed a new addition to the family and haven't been able to get down and watch any footy!

I was able to get down and watch 1st and 2nd grade at Viking park. I'd be interested to know what the QBN guys thought of the refereeing in 2nd grade as it appeared to me he (the referee) was not willing to work with the players or provide any clarification around his decisions. Penalty count was very one sided and seemed the tuggeranong players grew very frustrated.

Having said all that it was a very dominant performance from QBN especially in the backline. Tuggies 10, 12 and 13 didn't appear to talk to each other at all which allowed for a quality QBN backline to run riot. I thought the Vikings pack was good especially at set-piece they started to get a bit of dominance in both scrum and lineout but it wasn't enough. Overall a great performance from QBN and a much deserved win.

Onto 1st grade as a side note many of the criticisms I have of the referee in 2nd grade i have about the guy who did 1sts. It's gotta be hard for players when the referee's won't engage in a short discussion after a decision. I feel like it's lost on some referee's that the players are just trying to figure it out so it doesn't happen again.

Anyway, a truly dominant performance from the Vikings I was surprised by some of the names in the program and was a little worried that it might be a tight game. Again Vikings set-piece was good (obviously a work on for them after last year) and the backs found a lot of space. I thought Hyne and Tonga were stand outs for the Vikings.

Penca was great (as usual) but it was almost like he was carrying the entire load himself (obviously losing Noa and Ndruku doesn't help and may have forced his hand a little).

It's not often you see a QBN side get beat like that in recent times and it's hard to say at this point if tuggeranong are that good or QBN had a really bad day. Maybe a bit of both? I really don't know.


As far as selection goes i think there's going to be some real headaches. I understand Mcgrath is coming back from an injury and you'd think they'd at least give him a crack in the top grade now that Kite and Lomax have moved on, with his experience it seems to make sense. having said that Wagner and Taula were really solid on saturday so who would you drop? Obviously Suavai coming back (another experienced player) maybe giltrap moves to the wing and murray drops back to 2nds? But then Jake knight (another very experienced player) is also due to come back which again displaces one of langtry/murray/giltrap. You've also gotta factor in the O-H boys (again experience) are yet to return to full fitness so someone gets dropped from the backrow/second row to accomodate both of them (or one of the plays 2nds). Again after saturday who do you drop?

I don't envy Tim Sampson!

Anyway I'll try and contribute as much as I can now that we're a bit more settled.

Hopefully this is enough to get some discussion going!

Congrats on the new addition Macka and glad your back to watching a bit of rugby.

Didn't see 2's but agree with your assessment of first grade with the exception of the set piece. Tuggies scrum was solid but the line outs for both teams in the first half were a dogs breakfast! There were a squillion over throws and not a lot of precision.

In terms of selections I think Tuggies would be crazy to be dropping Wagner - he was very strong. I think Langtry misses out when Knight is available but he showed he is up to first grade and no doubt his chance will come.

Without being harsh the Qbn front row would benefit from a club dietitian. I always thought Barbaro would have been a lot better player than the very good player he was if he lost the gut. Nadruku is very much in the same boat. Young man in terms of front rowers with obvious talent who is never going to reach his potential if he doesn't start putting in a few extra laps of Campese.

 

[bluebags]

G'day Fellas,



As far as selection goes i think there's going to be some real headaches. I understand Mcgrath is coming back from an injury and you'd think they'd at least give him a crack in the top grade now that Kite and Lomax have moved on, with his experience it seems to make sense. having said that Wagner and Taula were really solid on saturday so who would you drop? Obviously Suavai coming back (another experienced player) maybe giltrap moves to the wing and murray drops back to 2nds? But then Jake knight (another very experienced player) is also due to come back which again displaces one of langtry/murray/giltrap. You've also gotta factor in the O-H boys (again experience) are yet to return to full fitness so someone gets dropped from the backrow/second row to accomodate both of them (or one of the plays 2nds). Again after saturday who do you drop?

I don't envy Tim Sampson!

Anyway I'll try and contribute as much as I can now that we're a bit more settled.

Hopefully this is enough to get some discussion going!

Yes, Big Congrats Macka...hope your bub, he or she, plays for Australia.

The term "experienced" tends to get bandied around a lot, but as the Whites showed us on Saturday, its not always beneficial. This thread has touched on the subject quite often, but when does a coach start trusting in the younger players in order for them to gain that much needed consistent experience. As you mentioned, A couple of these young blokes are probably going to get dropped despite playing well. Im sure that the debutants are just stoked to have got a 1st grade game under their belts but you would suspect that some of the other players may be starting to get a little disillusioned should they end up in 2nds.

I would hope that players returning from injury are made to play 2nds and earn their spots in 1st grade again, and allow the newbies the opportunity to keep their spots.

 

[macka_au]

Yes, Big Congrats Macka.hope your bub, he or she, plays for Australia.

The term "experienced" tends to get bandied around a lot, but as the Whites showed us on Saturday, its not always beneficial. This thread has touched on the subject quite often, but when does a coach start trusting in the younger players in order for them to gain that much needed consistent experience. As you mentioned, A couple of these young blokes are probably going to get dropped despite playing well. Im sure that the debutants are just stoked to have got a 1st grade game under their belts but you would suspect that some of the other players may be starting to get a little disillusioned should they end up in 2nds.

I would hope that players returning from injury are made to play 2nds and earn their spots in 1st grade again, and allow the newbies the opportunity to keep their spots.

Thanks guys let's hope she's got a bit more talent than her old man!

I constantly have this philosophical battle with myself. I firmly believe that a player shouldn't lose his position in a side due to an injury. It'd be like calling in sick to work on a Friday and finding out on Monday you don't have a job anymore. What I mean by that is that it's totally out of the players control.

I 100 percent agree that returning players should always work their way back in, Which is why I was happy to see guys like knight. mcgrath and hitchins all playing 2s to get their legs under back under them and "earn" their spots back.

The converse of that is that in my opinion, the only way young players improve is to give them experience at the next level. So how do you as a coach manage that? At what point do you move on from someone who has 50+ or 100+ 1st grade or grade games and put your faith in a 19 or 20 year old? And how do you approach that decision with your players?

And as you mentioned and as we saw on saturday experience is not always a good thing especially if the young player is having more impact than the experienced player.

Probably why I never got into coaching.

 

[bluebags]

Thanks guys let's hope she's got a bit more talent than her old man!

I constantly have this philosophical battle with myself. I firmly believe that a player shouldn't lose his position in a side due to an injury. It'd be like calling in sick to work on a Friday and finding out on Monday you don't have a job anymore. What I mean by that is that it's totally out of the players control.

I 100 percent agree that returning players should always work their way back in, Which is why I was happy to see guys like knight. mcgrath and hitchins all playing 2s to get their legs under back under them and "earn" their spots back.

The converse of that is that in my opinion, the only way young players improve is to give them experience at the next level. So how do you as a coach manage that? At what point do you move on from someone who has 50+ or 100+ 1st grade or grade games and put your faith in a 19 or 20 year old? And how do you approach that decision with your players?

And as you mentioned and as we saw on saturday experience is not always a good thing especially if the young player is having more impact than the experienced player.

Probably why I never got into coaching.

Macka...whats the general thought around Suavai's return and his best position. Previous to last season he was a 15 then last year played pretty much the entire year at 13. This year it appears he wants the fullback spot again. Personally, I've always viewed him as a solid player without necessarily being spectacular, yet his place in the team generally seems assured.
A young player like Giltrap however, is probably one player who comes to mind, that may end up a little frustrated with constantly being relegated. We've mentioned him here a few times, as the sort of player who could be really special given as you say, consistent game time. No 8 even went as far as to say that he should go to another club in order to get that experience.
Im not sure where I stand with that, but would not like to see these young guys leave JID.

 

[howyagoin]

Fair bit of injury time! And then the obscure moment that the ref seemed to have called time but then continued the game, with a penalty to Wests.

Injury time and a hugely dominant Wests scrum where the Norths front row were firstly marched big chunks down the field on about 3 or 4 occasions and penalised when their scrum fell apart. Norths weren't helped by the fact both their 2nd rowers left the game with injury.

Either team could of won the game. Very scrappy and lots of bad reads in defence. Norths winger had a great day with the boot too

 

[The Blindsider]

Any thoughts on the colts competition so far this year? Any surprises so far or predictions from you guys?

 

[MonkeyBoy]

I'd be interested to know what the QBN guys thought of the refereeing in 2nd grade as it appeared to me he (the referee) was not willing to work with the players or provide any clarification around his decisions. Penalty count was very one sided and seemed the tuggeranong players grew very frustrated.

Onto 1st grade as a side note many of the criticisms I have of the referee in 2nd grade i have about the guy who did 1sts. It's gotta be hard for players when the referee's won't engage in a short discussion after a decision. I feel like it's lost on some referee's that the players are just trying to figure it out so it doesn't happen again.

Hey Macka,
It would be pretty frustrating for players if the referee had to have a short discussion after every penalty with the players, it would also slow the game down considerably and remove quick options. Typically there may be a downtime chat eg when running over to the lineout from the penalty.
As a referee i don't think there needs to be too much of an explanation to 1st or 2nd grade players "FK early engagement" pretty much explains what the issue is or the extension "PK not rolling, I need you to roll East/West." Any more than that usually invites an argument or "discussion" which fuels frustration and you end up with crap penalties for dissent. I too was watching the games on Saturday, and players screaming at referees usually cuts down the communication from Referees.
Hope that explains a bit.

 

[bluebags]

Hey Macka,
It would be pretty frustrating for players if the referee had to have a short discussion after every penalty with the players, it would also slow the game down considerably and remove quick options. Typically there may be a downtime chat eg when running over to the lineout from the penalty.
As a referee i don't think there needs to be too much of an explanation to 1st or 2nd grade players "FK early engagement" pretty much explains what the issue is or the extension "PK not rolling, I need you to roll East/West." Any more than that usually invites an argument or "discussion" which fuels frustration and you end up with crap penalties for dissent. I too was watching the games on Saturday, and players screaming at referees usually cuts down the communication from Referees.
Hope that explains a bit.

While I agree that its cumbersome for the Ref to engage in stopping the game in order to have lengthy discussions so as to justify his decision and /or inform the players. Ive always been a fan however,and I think what macka meant, of the Ref talking through his decisions on the run and particularly calls like "...stay on side", "roll away" etc. You undoubtedly witness a better more flowing game and players seldom yell at him as it leaves no doubt as to what the penalty is then for. I When there is absolutely no communication around what the ruling was for, then the game can degenerate.

 

[ACTRugbyInsider]

Frankie Fainifo and Brendon Taueki at Queanbeyan Blues under Campesr

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Istanbul]

Frankie Fainifo and Brendon Taueki at Queanbeyan Blues under Campesr

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Geez bit of pace between those two! I just hope they can afford the pay cut...

 

[No.8]

Predictions for today:

Royals V's Easts

Royals will more than likely blood some new/different players throughout this game - I don't think this will impact them at all - I am going to say Royals by 60.

Gungahlin V's Vikings

Vikings have kept a similar side to last week - I can see that Henry is out (guessing injured) - brought in Sam Thomas (I think a Colt), Murray is out - I believe he broke his hand last week so prob out for awhile - but have a handy replacement - Ah Wong.

Gungahlin are now of course without their captain for the rest of the year after he broke his femur in the Easts game last week - but the American Chris Coyle comes into the 2nd row - this guy has slowly been improving the last few seasons and with now experience of playing on the international level I don't think he will look out of place in 1sts.

Game of the round for sure - I just can't see last weeks Vikings team being beaten - and this week you would prob argue they are slightly better - so Vikings by 14.

Wests V's Queanbeyan

Wests are ticking along nicely at the moment and are that much better than last year - they look a lot more of a complete unit this year. They are big, physical and have some good skilful players - dark-horse of the comp I think.

Queanbeyan are in struggle town - I don't think Queanbeyan have been in this sort of position and tested this much for a number of years. This week they will be without Oj Noa, Sok and Nadruku has been relegated to 2nd's - They have some debutantes in the squad -

No.8 - Dylan Jancevski
Lock - Josh Townsend
And even though Ben Gordon is listed in the Stampede I believe Tonga Tangitau will be playing loosehead and it is his first run-on 1st grade game.

Can anyone confirm that Tonga is still in Year 12 at Erindale College? I heard this - not sure if true though.

It is Tonga's first year at the Whites and I think he could turn into a really good player.

Carl Elliot is back though which will impact the side - he was prob the best club hooker last year - and brings a spark to the forward pack.

As much as I hate to say it I think Queanbeyan's struggles are not over yet - I think Wests may get the win today - Wests by 7.

 

[bluebags]

Predictions for today:

Royals V's Easts

Royals will more than likely blood some new/different players throughout this game - I don't think this will impact them at all - I am going to say Royals by 60.

Gungahlin V's Vikings

Vikings have kept a similar side to last week - I can see that Henry is out (guessing injured) - brought in Sam Thomas (I think a Colt), Murray is out - I believe he broke his hand last week so prob out for awhile - but have a handy replacement - Ah Wong.

Gungahlin are now of course without their captain for the rest of the year after he broke his femur in the Easts game last week - but the American Chris Coyle comes into the 2nd row - this guy has slowly been improving the last few seasons and with now experience of playing on the international level I don't think he will look out of place in 1sts.

Game of the round for sure - I just can't see last weeks Vikings team being beaten - and this week you would prob argue they are slightly better - so Vikings by 14.

Wests V's Queanbeyan

Wests are ticking along nicely at the moment and are that much better than last year - they look a lot more of a complete unit this year. They are big, physical and have some good skilful players - dark-horse of the comp I think.

Queanbeyan are in struggle town - I don't think Queanbeyan have been in this sort of position and tested this much for a number of years. This week they will be without Oj Noa, Sok and Nadruku has been relegated to 2nd's - They have some debutantes in the squad -

No.8 - Dylan Jancevski
Lock - Josh Townsend
And even though Ben Gordon is listed in the Stampede I believe Tonga Tangitau will be playing loosehead and it is his first run-on 1st grade game.

Can anyone confirm that Tonga is still in Year 12 at Erindale College? I heard this - not sure if true though.

It is Tonga's first year at the Whites and I think he could turn into a really good player.

Carl Elliot is back though which will impact the side - he was prob the best club hooker last year - and brings a spark to the forward pack.

As much as I hate to say it I think Queanbeyan's struggles are not over yet - I think Wests may get the win today - Wests by 7.

Geez No8, thought you had left us there for a while having not seen any postings.
Had similar winners and points as you but wasn't falling into the trap of posting my predictions to early until I'd sighted the team lists.
Royals are on fire. Easts however have restricted their opponents to 40 points or thereabouts and manage a few themselves. I will therefore go with Royals by 40.
Tuggers were outstanding last week after some fairly average wins by their standards. Eagles apparently have been willing to throw the ball around abit but cant see the redmen getting beaten. Vikings by 35.
Whites are in a hole and your updates dont make their chances any brighter. Wests will smell the blood in the water. Wests by 15-20

 

[No.8]

Geez No8, thought you had left us there for a while having not seen any postings.

Had similar winners and points as you but wasn't falling into the trap of posting my predictions to early until I'd sighted the team lists.

Royals are on fire. Easts however have restricted their opponents to 40 points or thereabouts and manage a few themselves. I will therefore go with Royals by 40.

Tuggers were outstanding last week after some fairly average wins by their standards. Eagles apparently have been willing to throw the ball around abit but cant see the redmen getting beaten. Vikings by 35.

Whites are in a hole and your updates dont make their chances any brighter. Wests will smell the blood in the water. Wests by 15-20

Haha - I would never leave you. . .


I am still thinking we will see the Fainga'a brothers in White soon - Saia hasn't been selected for the Brumbies - neither has Anthony (I believe he's injured though) - you would think they will at least play a few games in White this year. I would love to see a Anthony/JR Centre pairing.


I know both are off at the end of the year Saia to France and Anthony back to Japan - so will more than likely be the last time they get the play 1st Grade for the Whites - guessing they may end up back in Queanbeyan at the end of their careers. . .

 

[bluebags]

I thought japan and France were the end of someones career

 

[Istanbul]

Watching bits and pieces of the livestream this afternoon it's hard not to be impressed by Tuggies. Good first half by Darra leading by 7 after 30 minutes but then it became the Tuggies show. Isaac Thompson is in red hot form and Roberson was great at 12. Jake Knight is a handful and Ernest was a constant threat from the back. When you consider that Ah Wong was quite and Giltrap is in reserve it is a fairly red hot backline. Hyne was impressive and Tonga is a
Beast. For Darra I thought Sinnotti tried hard and Rocky had moments. Would like to see more from the back three.

On a side note the colt that Darra put forward to assist with commentary probably doesn't have a big future in the media. Be good to see clubs provide more insightful entertaining commentators for future games.