John I. Dent Cup 2016 - ACT Premier Rugby
- Thread starter Hugh Jarse
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Stan Wickham (3)
Young Jacob Abel (Easts No.9) heads to New Zealand to join Bay of Plenty Academy
H
Great news for him but ouch as far as Easts go. Despite not climbing the ladder Easts have consolidated well this year and seem to be in a position to build over coming years. I hope they can dig deep and see the season out without any major blow out losses and come back harder in 2017. Would love to see them upset the students this weekend!
Great news for him but ouch as far as Easts go. Despite not climbing the ladder Easts have consolidated well this year and seem to be in a position to build over coming years. I hope they can dig deep and see the season out without any major blow out losses and come back harder in 2017. Would love to see them upset the students this weekend!
No.8
Phil Hardcastle (33)
Nice to see - good on him - as Istanbul said though a blow for Easts.
You would think that Robbie will move on if nothing moves forward with the Brumbies next year - with Saia coming into the mix you would think that it will be Mann-Rea and Fainga'a as the starting 23 hookers? and Possibly Robbie having another season in club rugby. . .
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Hopefully they'll retain a better profit than the Brumbies...........
I would imagine the Greenway site is slightly better located for those north of Kambah.
bluebags
Larry Dwyer (12)
I went early to watch the 3 premier grades. In colts Royals were totally dominant in the 1st half and went to the break something like 19-0 ?? Tuggies never looked like presenting a problem. The 2nd half was a good contest so I don't know what happened in terms of changes in personal, positions , attitudes. It was apparent though that the Vikings were a very young side with not a lot of last years faces. Royals on the other hand, seemed to have retained many more, so experience and size obviously came to play. I would suggest that Royals would have to be firm favourites this year but the core of Tuggies youthful side will be together another 2 years so they will undoubtedly be a force.
Reggies was almost bizarre in that Tuggies were so dominant and at the same time so woeful. Royals just defended and pounced on the Vikings many mistakes.
bluebags
Larry Dwyer (12)
I went to check out the Vikings V Royals game - 1st half was extremely sloppy/stop start affair - Royals honestly looked the better of the two sides - with Vikings looking very out of sorts and abit all over the place - no real structure.
The 2nd half again for the 1st 15-20 mins was the same as the 1st and then I think Royals tired and Vikings started to find some holes and put on afew late tries - the score doesn't really show how much of a battle the game really was - with as I mentioned Vikings scoring some pretty soft tries towards the end.
Standouts for me by far were - for Vikings - Robinson, Rakic and Ben Hyne - Hyne got a double and towards the end of just a total powerhouse - you can see why the Brumbies have picked this kid up. For Royals Pedro was rock solid and the 12/13 combo for Royals seems to be pretty solid also.
Royals with a little more strike power could beat any team in the comp on their day - looking at the scores over the weekend - its really turning into a 4 horse race - Vikings/Whites/Royals/Eagles - Uni will really need to step it up a gear if they have any chance of making the semi's now.
Its funny No8, but I read the game in a totally different way. To me Royals rarely looked like winning and while they did lead at the break ( I think it was 7-5), they only appeared to be in the game through gritty defence and Vikings mistakes. Royals try for example, was a breakout after Robinson failed to put a penalty kick into touch about 2mtrs from the Royals line. To that end, you were right that the game was quite sloppy and that Tuggers were out of sorts. 15-20 mins into the 2nd half Royals grit just wasn't enough and the gates opened. As you mentioned, Hyne was a standout for Vikings with Rakic and Giltrap really solid. The Royals young backline however, looked a little exposed, although the halves as always were industrious.
A couple of things have become apparent in regards to the Vikings. The depth thru the grades certainly isn't there, and there is an over reliance on bringing back the old guys to fill gaps rather than giving young players a go. Or is having no depth the reason the veterans keep getting trundled out. Frankie really did not stand out in 2nds and came on in 1st grade at the time Royals had run out of puff. Likewise, Mokotupu is great but when do Vikings simply say 'enough'.
I believe the Vikings backline is still potent, just not fluent, possibly a positional rather than personal problem. Suavai and Ravouvou simply do not/will not pass the ball and most movements breakdown around them. Why Suavai is the 13 is perplexing therefore, particularly with Robinson in such good form yet not able to play in his favoured position. In saying that, his versatility means that he will remain at 10 until Thompson or Jackson-Hope return. Perhaps putting Suivai back to the 15 where he played all of last year and replacing him at 13 with Giltrap could be a solution.
As a side note ...apologies again No.8, not meaning to sound argumentative as it almost appears we watched 2 different games.....
The 2nd half again for the 1st 15-20 mins was the same as the 1st and then I think Royals tired and Vikings started to find some holes and put on afew late tries - the score doesn't really show how much of a battle the game really was - with as I mentioned Vikings scoring some pretty soft tries towards the end.
Standouts for me by far were - for Vikings - Robinson, Rakic and Ben Hyne - Hyne got a double and towards the end of just a total powerhouse - you can see why the Brumbies have picked this kid up. For Royals Pedro was rock solid and the 12/13 combo for Royals seems to be pretty solid also.
Royals with a little more strike power could beat any team in the comp on their day - looking at the scores over the weekend - its really turning into a 4 horse race - Vikings/Whites/Royals/Eagles - Uni will really need to step it up a gear if they have any chance of making the semi's now.
Its funny No8, but I read the game in a totally different way. To me Royals rarely looked like winning and while they did lead at the break ( I think it was 7-5), they only appeared to be in the game through gritty defence and Vikings mistakes. Royals try for example, was a breakout after Robinson failed to put a penalty kick into touch about 2mtrs from the Royals line. To that end, you were right that the game was quite sloppy and that Tuggers were out of sorts. 15-20 mins into the 2nd half Royals grit just wasn't enough and the gates opened. As you mentioned, Hyne was a standout for Vikings with Rakic and Giltrap really solid. The Royals young backline however, looked a little exposed, although the halves as always were industrious.
A couple of things have become apparent in regards to the Vikings. The depth thru the grades certainly isn't there, and there is an over reliance on bringing back the old guys to fill gaps rather than giving young players a go. Or is having no depth the reason the veterans keep getting trundled out. Frankie really did not stand out in 2nds and came on in 1st grade at the time Royals had run out of puff. Likewise, Mokotupu is great but when do Vikings simply say 'enough'.
I believe the Vikings backline is still potent, just not fluent, possibly a positional rather than personal problem. Suavai and Ravouvou simply do not/will not pass the ball and most movements breakdown around them. Why Suavai is the 13 is perplexing therefore, particularly with Robinson in such good form yet not able to play in his favoured position. In saying that, his versatility means that he will remain at 10 until Thompson or Jackson-Hope return. Perhaps putting Suivai back to the 15 where he played all of last year and replacing him at 13 with Giltrap could be a solution.
As a side note ...apologies again No.8, not meaning to sound argumentative as it almost appears we watched 2 different games.....
No.8
Phil Hardcastle (33)
Haha no thats ok mate - its good to see the views on how other people read the game aswell - good for the thread! Some of the things you mentioned though I def agree with!
Will be interesting to see what happens when Thompson and Jackson-Hope comes back.
Possibly -
10. Jackson-Hope
11. Knight
12. Robinson
13. Rakic
14. Suavai
15. Thompson
Or Thompson will be dropped down to 2nd's again.
Either way with Jackson-Hope/Thompson coming back into the mix - pretty handy backline.
I agree with Suavai - needs to move from 13 - I have him on the wing above (just to fit him in) but Ib think he is best at fullback.
For me as mentioned Ravouvou - prob best suited in 2nd's at the moment - would be good to hear to know if anyone knows what Ravouvou's story is - has he been brought by the Brumbies - is he just a random from outa town that has gone to Vikings? Have Vikings picked him up from somewhere?
I agree depth seems to be an issue also - I don't get the whole Mokotupu still playing in 1st's - there has to be a younger player playing in colts/2nd's that could be given a shot to sit on the bench? I heard that Mokotupu had retired 3 years ago and was ONLY going to play 4ths/3rd's but he has started to sneak back up again in regards to starting for 2nd's/benching for 1st's - I even heard one of the "side-line guys/managers" ask him if he wanted to go on in the last 5-10mins aswell on Saturday - as mentioned you would think they could of stuck a colts 9 on for the last 5-10 with the game won.
No.8
Phil Hardcastle (33)
Write-up from the Whites website -
Maintaining the momentum -
With firsts, seconds and colts having a bye it was up to thirds and fourths to maintain the momentum when they met Goulburn at Goulburn.
The weather was as tough as legendary flanker Simon Poidevin, who the field is named after, with the fourths having a day out scoring 12 tries in a 64-7 win while thirds just got there 13-5.
It was a good effort given the requirement to travel which today’s footballers are not used to. It is easy to say “I am not going” but to the credit of the club strong teams were fielded. Fourths had a troop of 22 players which is unheard of.
Thirds finally had the benefit of a solid front row and none were better than the veteran Tangi Maine.
He won the Pat Matthews Cup last year for his approach and attitude to the club and rugby and he could well win it again in 2016. Whether he plays first grade or fourth grade Tangi never fails to perform.
A consistent goal kicker would just add the topping to Grant Jones’ team.
Fourth grade ran amuck with the fresh Irish blow in Martin Cole scoring three tries on his debut. Not bad given jet lag and then a night out with the Jerrabomberra party fraternity celebrating the birthday of Jake Otto Gordon.
Forwards Mitch Callagher and Jason Wirangi picked up two each while full back Reuben House converted seven of the 12. House and captain Luke Cochrane switched roles so Luke could be close to his bros Duncan Doyle.
The Whites meet Wests on Saturday for the first time this season at home with Wests winning their first first grade game of the year over Easts.
For Queanbeyan the week off, Wests and then another week off for the long weekend it is a dangerous period. The coaches and support staff have been working on the disruption to play with a program aimed at maintaining the momentum.
The coaches will also face some difficult selection issues as most players will be back on deck including Sokai Tai.
http://whitesrugby.com/maintaining-the-momentum/
Maintaining the momentum -
With firsts, seconds and colts having a bye it was up to thirds and fourths to maintain the momentum when they met Goulburn at Goulburn.
The weather was as tough as legendary flanker Simon Poidevin, who the field is named after, with the fourths having a day out scoring 12 tries in a 64-7 win while thirds just got there 13-5.
It was a good effort given the requirement to travel which today’s footballers are not used to. It is easy to say “I am not going” but to the credit of the club strong teams were fielded. Fourths had a troop of 22 players which is unheard of.
Thirds finally had the benefit of a solid front row and none were better than the veteran Tangi Maine.
He won the Pat Matthews Cup last year for his approach and attitude to the club and rugby and he could well win it again in 2016. Whether he plays first grade or fourth grade Tangi never fails to perform.
A consistent goal kicker would just add the topping to Grant Jones’ team.
Fourth grade ran amuck with the fresh Irish blow in Martin Cole scoring three tries on his debut. Not bad given jet lag and then a night out with the Jerrabomberra party fraternity celebrating the birthday of Jake Otto Gordon.
Forwards Mitch Callagher and Jason Wirangi picked up two each while full back Reuben House converted seven of the 12. House and captain Luke Cochrane switched roles so Luke could be close to his bros Duncan Doyle.
The Whites meet Wests on Saturday for the first time this season at home with Wests winning their first first grade game of the year over Easts.
For Queanbeyan the week off, Wests and then another week off for the long weekend it is a dangerous period. The coaches and support staff have been working on the disruption to play with a program aimed at maintaining the momentum.
The coaches will also face some difficult selection issues as most players will be back on deck including Sokai Tai.
http://whitesrugby.com/maintaining-the-momentum/
No.8
Phil Hardcastle (33)
Will be very interesting for Sokai back in the mix how the Whites structure their forward pack moving forward - I would say that Sokai will play a mix of 2nd/1st grade this weekend (possibly only 2nd's) - but moving forward where do they fit him in?
6 - Wells
7 - Penca
8 - Noa
Do they push one of the 2nd rowers down to 2nd's to make room for experience?
For me considering Sokai has been out for most of the season he needs to play himself back into the 1st grade side - i.e playing in 2nd's for the next few weeks and benching for 1st's.
6 - Wells
7 - Penca
8 - Noa
Do they push one of the 2nd rowers down to 2nd's to make room for experience?
For me considering Sokai has been out for most of the season he needs to play himself back into the 1st grade side - i.e playing in 2nd's for the next few weeks and benching for 1st's.
MonkeyBoy
Bill Watson (15)
[/quote]
I agree depth seems to be an issue also - I don't get the whole Mokotupu still playing in 1st's - there has to be a younger player playing in colts/2nd's that could be given a shot to sit on the bench? I heard that Mokotupu had retired 3 years ago and was ONLY going to play 4ths/3rd's but he has started to sneak back up again in regards to starting for 2nd's/benching for 1st's - I even heard one of the "side-line guys/managers" ask him if he wanted to go on in the last 5-10mins aswell on Saturday - as mentioned you would think they could of stuck a colts 9 on for the last 5-10 with the game won.[/quote]
Powell was with Brumbies and Bowden was out after some dental work, Lealiifano @ brumbies, JJH @ U20s and Thompson out meant there was "some disconnect" in the backs ... 22/23 scrum feeds to the Blue Baggers means the Vikings backline couldn't catch a cold.
I agree depth seems to be an issue also - I don't get the whole Mokotupu still playing in 1st's - there has to be a younger player playing in colts/2nd's that could be given a shot to sit on the bench? I heard that Mokotupu had retired 3 years ago and was ONLY going to play 4ths/3rd's but he has started to sneak back up again in regards to starting for 2nd's/benching for 1st's - I even heard one of the "side-line guys/managers" ask him if he wanted to go on in the last 5-10mins aswell on Saturday - as mentioned you would think they could of stuck a colts 9 on for the last 5-10 with the game won.[/quote]
Powell was with Brumbies and Bowden was out after some dental work, Lealiifano @ brumbies, JJH @ U20s and Thompson out meant there was "some disconnect" in the backs ... 22/23 scrum feeds to the Blue Baggers means the Vikings backline couldn't catch a cold.
yourmatesam
Desmond Connor (43)
Maxie Ravouvouvouvouvouvou has been in Griffith for the past three or four years. He comes from some pretty handy pedigree, (his brother Vatemo is a starter for the Fijian 7's team) and is a good footballer in this area of the world. I don't know how he got a gig at Tuggeranong, I recall hearing some words two years ago about him moving to Easts but that never got off the ground.
In SIRU, he played as an outside back generally, but could cover anything from halfback to 5/8 depending on what the Griffith lineup looked like. He also had a stint with the SIRU Rep Team in the back three and also played Brumbies Provincial I believe.
At a club like Tuggies, he's probably suited to a position on the wing which would allow his counter-attacking ability to shine. To be honest, I was surprised to hear that he was playing First Grade there, knowing how many quality footballers are at Tuggeranong. Given the chance to specialise in a position, he could be a really good footballer.
yourmatesam
Desmond Connor (43)
22 scrum feeds, that's bloody ridiculous. In First Grade?
How many extras will the boys be doing for that effort?!?!?!?!!!
MonkeyBoy
Bill Watson (15)
Yep first grade... I love a good scrum but it was even a bit punishing for an enthusiast like myself. Thank Christ the referee and packs had a good scrum day!
bluebags
Larry Dwyer (12)
Will be interesting to see what happens when Thompson and Jackson-Hope comes back.
Possibly -
10. Jackson-Hope
11. Knight
12. Robinson
13. Rakic
14. Suavai
15. Thompson
Or Thompson will be dropped down to 2nd's again.
Either way with Jackson-Hope/Thompson coming back into the mix - pretty handy backline.
The Jackson-Hope return will be interesting. The Vikings have him at 10 but it is obvious that the Brumbs see him as a 12.
Does anyone know if the Brumbies can request a club side give a contracted player more game time in a certain position in order to further their skills there etc .
Possibly -
10. Jackson-Hope
11. Knight
12. Robinson
13. Rakic
14. Suavai
15. Thompson
Or Thompson will be dropped down to 2nd's again.
Either way with Jackson-Hope/Thompson coming back into the mix - pretty handy backline.
The Jackson-Hope return will be interesting. The Vikings have him at 10 but it is obvious that the Brumbs see him as a 12.
Does anyone know if the Brumbies can request a club side give a contracted player more game time in a certain position in order to further their skills there etc .
Not a bad selection headache to have and I'm not sure who I would drop but if Sok is fit and keen I would definitely be finding a spot for him somewhere. Who are the locks at the moment, could he nudge one of them out or get Noa to move into the second row? I'd even see if he could have a run in the centres if need be. The guy is a freakish talent and brings a huge X factor. His game is probably too unconventional to see him slot in the structure of a S15 side but he has been phenomenal in the JID over the years. Will be keen to see how it plays out.
bluebags
Larry Dwyer (12)
From the Vikings website:
The Tuggeranong Vikings have pulled together an impressive second half defensive display to win the Grand Final rematch with Royals 26-7.
The game was special for a number of reasons and it started with prop Sione Taula leading the side onto the ground for his 100th game.
The eight-year veteran of the club had a clinical game and was especially important in defence and the evenly contested scrums throughout the afternoon.
Royals opened the scoring in the 12th minute, when Brent Hamlin spied a gap next to the ruck. The conversion successful, the visitors took the lead 7-0.
The first clash between Royals and Vikings in any given year celebrates the life of Allan ‘Wal’ Scollen who died in a car crash in 2002. Allan played with Royals and had a number of friends at Vikings. Vikings won the last time the Cup was contested, in April last year.
Unforced errors plagued both sides in the first half and prevented either side from building all-important pressure.
Vikings finally crossed the chalk in the dying minutes of the first half, when Sam Gilltrap drew comparisons with former Vikings winger Jerome Niumata, diving over the line in the left corner.
Andrew Robinson missed the conversion attempt and the teams went to the sheds with Royals ahead 7-5.
Vikings players wore a special jersey for the clash, designed with Fijian influence as part of Pacific Islander Day at Viking Park. Money was raised for the Cyclone relief effort in Fiji through the auction of the jerseys after the game.
Vikings drew confidence from the late try and carried the momentum into the 55th minute, when Ben Hyne scored the first of his double off a lineout set piece, left of the uprights.
Ernest Suavai was handed the kicking duties and nailed the first of his three attempts, taking the Vikings to a 12-7 lead.
Before the game, Coach Tim Sampson suggested the focus at training has been on defence. His side clearly benefitted from the extra work because they would keep the visitors scoreless in the second half.
Royals struggled to find any ascendency but a handful of covering tackles and individual defensive displays prevented Vikings from running away with the game.
Vikings had a new halves pairing for the match with flyhalf Isaac Thompson out injured and scrumhalf Ryne Bowden recovering from his wisdom teeth removal. Robinson moved from 12 to 10 and the Vikings welcomed back Blake Henman from a stint in the UK.
Jake Rakic also came back into the side, after a lengthy injury recovery program, and he made his presence felt at inside centre. He linked with Robinson who made a break around 35-metres out, and offloaded to Hyne who dived to score his second five pointer.
At 19-7 the Vikings looked to have an unassailable lead. Sampson made a number of replacements, giving some key players a rest including winger Jake Knight who was replaced by Nick Murray.
Murray would score the final try of the game in the final minutes, making a break nearly 100-metres out and toeing the ball along the turf to dive in for the five points.
Vikings head to Nicholls Enclosed next week to play the Gungahlin Eagles who are third on the ladder, on equal competition points with Royals.
The Tuggeranong Vikings have pulled together an impressive second half defensive display to win the Grand Final rematch with Royals 26-7.
The game was special for a number of reasons and it started with prop Sione Taula leading the side onto the ground for his 100th game.
The eight-year veteran of the club had a clinical game and was especially important in defence and the evenly contested scrums throughout the afternoon.
Royals opened the scoring in the 12th minute, when Brent Hamlin spied a gap next to the ruck. The conversion successful, the visitors took the lead 7-0.
The first clash between Royals and Vikings in any given year celebrates the life of Allan ‘Wal’ Scollen who died in a car crash in 2002. Allan played with Royals and had a number of friends at Vikings. Vikings won the last time the Cup was contested, in April last year.
Unforced errors plagued both sides in the first half and prevented either side from building all-important pressure.
Vikings finally crossed the chalk in the dying minutes of the first half, when Sam Gilltrap drew comparisons with former Vikings winger Jerome Niumata, diving over the line in the left corner.
Andrew Robinson missed the conversion attempt and the teams went to the sheds with Royals ahead 7-5.
Vikings players wore a special jersey for the clash, designed with Fijian influence as part of Pacific Islander Day at Viking Park. Money was raised for the Cyclone relief effort in Fiji through the auction of the jerseys after the game.
Vikings drew confidence from the late try and carried the momentum into the 55th minute, when Ben Hyne scored the first of his double off a lineout set piece, left of the uprights.
Ernest Suavai was handed the kicking duties and nailed the first of his three attempts, taking the Vikings to a 12-7 lead.
Before the game, Coach Tim Sampson suggested the focus at training has been on defence. His side clearly benefitted from the extra work because they would keep the visitors scoreless in the second half.
Royals struggled to find any ascendency but a handful of covering tackles and individual defensive displays prevented Vikings from running away with the game.
Vikings had a new halves pairing for the match with flyhalf Isaac Thompson out injured and scrumhalf Ryne Bowden recovering from his wisdom teeth removal. Robinson moved from 12 to 10 and the Vikings welcomed back Blake Henman from a stint in the UK.
Jake Rakic also came back into the side, after a lengthy injury recovery program, and he made his presence felt at inside centre. He linked with Robinson who made a break around 35-metres out, and offloaded to Hyne who dived to score his second five pointer.
At 19-7 the Vikings looked to have an unassailable lead. Sampson made a number of replacements, giving some key players a rest including winger Jake Knight who was replaced by Nick Murray.
Murray would score the final try of the game in the final minutes, making a break nearly 100-metres out and toeing the ball along the turf to dive in for the five points.
Vikings head to Nicholls Enclosed next week to play the Gungahlin Eagles who are third on the ladder, on equal competition points with Royals.
No.8
Phil Hardcastle (33)
Yea mate as you said its a headache but a good one to have!
Regarding the 2nd rowers - you have Toby Wilson and and Leaper - both have been playing really good rugby - and have both been very consistent - if I had to drop one and its nearly a pick out of a hat pick - Leaper I guess - but as I said they have both been playing some great rugby.
Then Sok could possibly slip into the back-row. Whites have some awesome centres so I personally wouldn't place him there.
Also don't forgot Jones who has been playing 6/7 while Penca has been injured and has captained the 1st grade side this year - who will be going down to 2nd's.
Whites overall I feel have the best 1st and 2nd grade forward packs and they are only getting stronger as players come back from injury.
As I said I reckon Sok will need to play himself back into the 1st grade side - I just can't see how they can drop - Leaper, Wilson, Penca, Wells or Noa at the moment.
Very keen to see what the line-up is this weekend...
No.8
Phil Hardcastle (33)
I was thinking possibly the samething - and yes they may do this but saying that - Whites draw at the moment is -
Last weekend - BYE
This weekend - Wests - @ Campese
Weekend after (11th) - BYE
18th June/Round 12 - Vikings @ Campese
Round 13 - Wests @ Jamison
Round 14 - Easts @ Campese
Round 15 - Royals @ Campese
Round 16 - Uni @ Campese
Round 17 (LAST ROUND BEFORE SEMI'S) - BYE
For me personally I would be playing a full strength side this weekend in lead up to the Vikings game - because they are not going to get a chance before then to do it due to another BYE. Even if its for 50-60 mins and the sub a heap off.
The way they have their draw structured is perfect for players that needing a break in the middle of the season.
Then I would be looking at resting any players that need it again in Round 14 - Full strength side Round 15/16 leading into the semi's and then a week off to freshen up before the semi's.
Looking at all the draws the Whites prob have the best of it due to BYE's at the right time, a HEAP of games at home and the "right" teams at the right times - lets just hope they take advantage of it!
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