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John I Dent Cup 2013

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Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
I guess at the end of the day there are a few points that come up -

1. The best players from around u12's will more than likely be looking at private schools with better rugby pathways than Vikings Juniors - thats just a fact of junior sport.

2. Yes they cant "buy" a super rugby standard side but they could if they wanted to i.e they have the money to do so.

3. All the rugby clubs at one point were on a level playing field in some way or another - so why should Vikings be put down for being a successful business? All the other clubs in reality could of done the same.

4. I dont think Vikings should be put down for not having more juniors in there 1st grade team - how many Wests Juniors/QYBN Juniors/Eagles juniors etc etc are in the 1st grade teams? Really once they finish school you will find most of the players are sourced from Eddies, Marist, Grammar - surrounding areas, have been brought in at some point by the Brumbies and just stayed around from syd, qld, melb or have been brought in by the clubs - not just Vikings etc

5. There are hundreds/thousands of clubs around the world that look for players and offer jobs/acom etc - its not un-normal for a rugby club to do this.

I do agree with you that yes maybe Vikings could do more to promote junior players but they do have a fantastic development program and put alot into the junior system - but at the end of the day you need the best players and the players that will win you games.

Excellent points.

It should also be noted that Vikings represent the largest area in the ACT in which to source players from, and as such they bring a lot of kids to rugby..........

From around U13's onwards they lose a lot of players to the private schools, with much of their top talent poached by private school scouts (particularly Eddies).......... it's why they had to bump up the U12's NZ tour up to U13's to reward the players that were going to stay on with the club through high school.........

A lot of these players may or may not return to play for Vikings after school..........
 

Grant Jones

Ted Fahey (11)
I guess at the end of the day there are a few points that come up -

1. The best players from around u12's will more than likely be looking at private schools with better rugby pathways than Vikings Juniors - thats just a fact of junior sport.

2. Yes they cant "buy" a super rugby standard side but they could if they wanted to i.e they have the money to do so.

3. All the rugby clubs at one point were on a level playing field in some way or another - so why should Vikings be put down for being a successful business? All the other clubs in reality could of done the same.

4. I dont think Vikings should be put down for not having more juniors in there 1st grade team - how many Wests Juniors/QYBN Juniors/Eagles juniors etc etc are in the 1st grade teams? Really once they finish school you will find most of the players are sourced from Eddies, Marist, Grammar - surrounding areas, have been brought in at some point by the Brumbies and just stayed around from syd, qld, melb or have been brought in by the clubs - not just Vikings etc

5. There are hundreds/thousands of clubs around the world that look for players and offer jobs/acom etc - its not un-normal for a rugby club to do this.

I do agree with you that yes maybe Vikings could do more to promote junior players but they do have a fantastic development program and put alot into the junior system - but at the end of the day you need the best players and the players that will win you games.

1. Agreed, QBN juniors have a massive drop off after under 12's because of kids that mainly go to Eddies. But lucky for us a lot of these kids return after school.

2. Look at their squad from last year, a lot of there players were bought here at the expense of a number of local players who either had played or should of been playing first grade.

3. Totally agree, I commend them on the success of their business, they have obviously had some smart people running the place over the years. Well done to them on this.

4. It is no secret that QBN gets the majority of its players from Eddies, but most of these players are QBN people or if not there are a small amount who come to play for QBN from Eddies because they want to play with their mates. I would say this is the case for over 80% of our first grade squad, higher for other grades.

5. We have 3 players in first and second grade that we have looked for jobs and accommodation for as they have come from overseas, but they are paying for their own accommodation. The comp is still amateur, which means players can't be paid, lets remember that!

I have no problem with Vikings recruiting if they believe that is the best thing for their club and they are happy to have a team made up players that are robbing local blokes the opportunity of playing first grade and push for higher honours.

As I have said before on here it is just all the more rewarding when we beat them.
 

Grant Jones

Ted Fahey (11)
Who was at the Royals Tuggeranong match on the weekend? Was it a case of Tuggeranong playing bad or are Royals a chance of taking it out this year even without Rapana and Abel?
 

Rock Lobster

Larry Dwyer (12)
Who was at the Royals Tuggeranong match on the weekend? Was it a case of Tuggeranong playing bad or are Royals a chance of taking it out this year even without Rapana and Abel?

I was there & while I'd suggest Vikings were not at the absolute top of their game I wouldn't say they played bad. At various stages it looked like they would blow the game apart but Royals, as they have done all season so far, managed to cling on with some gritty defence & could even have snatched the game in the dying minutes when they had Vikings under sustained pressure inside their half.

Whether Royals are a live chance is another question but when you consider some of the players that could come back into their side later in the year, you'd have to say they will be up there when the whips are cracking. A forward pack containing Siliva Siliva, Sam Carter, Tom Staniforth, Tom Cusack, Sokai Tai, et al is going to be very hard to beat. They are a bit thin on depth in the backs with Rapana & Cornforth leaving but with that pack I'd suggest they would play it tight & prove very hard to beat.
 

Wendell

Stan Wickham (3)
1. Agreed, QBN juniors have a massive drop off after under 12's because of kids that mainly go to Eddies. But lucky for us a lot of these kids return after school.

2. Look at their squad from last year, a lot of there players were bought here at the expense of a number of local players who either had played or should of been playing first grade.

3. Totally agree, I commend them on the success of their business, they have obviously had some smart people running the place over the years. Well done to them on this.

4. It is no secret that QBN gets the majority of its players from Eddies, but most of these players are QBN people or if not there are a small amount who come to play for QBN from Eddies because they want to play with their mates. I would say this is the case for over 80% of our first grade squad, higher for other grades.

5. We have 3 players in first and second grade that we have looked for jobs and accommodation for as they have come from overseas, but they are paying for their own accommodation. The comp is still amateur, which means players can't be paid, lets remember that!

I have no problem with Vikings recruiting if they believe that is the best thing for their club and they are happy to have a team made up players that are robbing local blokes the opportunity of playing first grade and push for higher honours.

As I have said before on here it is just all the more rewarding when we beat them.
A contact i have that plays at the vikings said that 10 of the team from last year played in the team that smashed wests in the 2011 GF. So I am not sure of point 2? Zac Holmes was a brumby so that means 4 players were recruits. Clouston the lock I had heard Qbyn chased but he went to vikings because of his relationship with the coach. Pretty sure Qbyn have pinched there fair share of vikings players over the years. Wasn't Penca a Vikings Junior? A colts lock as well from Vikings?
 

Grant Jones

Ted Fahey (11)
A contact i have that plays at the vikings said that 10 of the team from last year played in the team that smashed wests in the 2011 GF. So I am not sure of point 2? Zac Holmes was a brumby so that means 4 players were recruits. Clouston the lock I had heard Qbyn chased but he went to vikings because of his relationship with the coach. Pretty sure Qbyn have pinched there fair share of vikings players over the years. Wasn't Penca a Vikings Junior? A colts lock as well from Vikings?
You may be right, but why if their team was so successful the year before did they feel they needed to go out and recruit another 4 players? Surely Jake Knight (being a Brumbies Academy trailest and local bloke) could of played first grade again last year instead of getting that irish bloke in? Gareth Clouston went to Vikings after they found out QBN got him a spot in the Brumbies program and offered him a better deal financially. Dan Penca came to the club because he wanted to play with his mates, not because QBN offered him anything and the colts lock you talk about is hardly a Tuggeranong junior, he went to Erindale in year 12 so played for Vikings under 18's side, then decided to come to QBN because he had family and friends here.
 

Wendell

Stan Wickham (3)
You may be right, but why if their team was so successful the year before did they feel they needed to go out and recruit another 4 players? Surely Jake Knight (being a Brumbies Academy trailest and local bloke) could of played first grade again last year instead of getting that irish bloke in? Gareth Clouston went to Vikings after they found out QBN got him a spot in the Brumbies program and offered him a better deal financially. Dan Penca came to the club because he wanted to play with his mates, not because QBN offered him anything and the colts lock you talk about is hardly a Tuggeranong junior, he went to Erindale in year 12 so played for Vikings under 18's side, then decided to come to QBN because he had family and friends here.
The Irish bloke played in 2011. Jake Knight was out injured in 2012 and was not available as was Hitchins for the majority of the year but he tried to push through and play. This is a fact as I know them both. Anyway we could go on all day. It certainly appears the Qbyn & Vikings rivalry is still as strong as ever. If these two teams are in the GF I will make the drive down for sure!
 

Rock Lobster

Larry Dwyer (12)
Just going on the 2011/2012 Grand Final programs I have in front of me, Vikings had 8 players back up from 2011 to 2012. Of the other 7 that came into the 2012 side, only one, fullback Brendon Taueki, came from either their 2nds or Colts team from 2011.
 

Wendell

Stan Wickham (3)
Just going on the 2011/2012 Grand Final programs I have in front of me, Vikings had 8 players back up from 2011 to 2012. Of the other 7 that came into the 2012 side, only one, fullback Brendon Taueki, came from either their 2nds or Colts team from 2011.
Remember 2 of the players were brumbies, Sio & Holmes. All clubs received Brumbies. While you are at it Rock Lobster compare the Wests teams. Strangely Wests are always very active with recruitment but never get mentioned. They had at least 5 or 6 kiwis/recruits come into their team.
 

Rock Lobster

Larry Dwyer (12)
Fair point Wendell. Wests had 7 players back up from 2011-12. Two Brumbies who both became Brumbies via Wests, Kimlin & Mogg, played in 2012 but not 2011, Andrew Parsons was on their bench in 2011 & played in 2012 & their seconds didn't make the finals in 2011 so you are probably right in suggesting the remaining 5 were imported.
 

Grant Jones

Ted Fahey (11)
The Irish bloke played in 2011. Jake Knight was out injured in 2012 and was not available as was Hitchins for the majority of the year but he tried to push through and play. This is a fact as I know them both. Anyway we could go on all day. It certainly appears the Qbyn & Vikings rivalry is still as strong as ever. If these two teams are in the GF I will make the drive down for sure!
Sorry, my mistake, he was there! The point I was trying to make was that it would be frustrating for blokes playing 2nd and 3rd grade (both very strong team) to never get the opportunity because recruits keep coming in front of them! The rivalry sure is still as strong as ever but I don't think you will be seeing QBN in the big one this year, making the 4 will be an achievement for us I think, lacking a few top quality players in key positions, hopefully will get there over the next couple of seasons. But we sure are hoping to compete in all the other grades!
 

Bugeye

Allen Oxlade (6)
Does anyone have the scores from todays games?
Also Grant Jones have you been suspended for two weeks?
 

Grant Jones

Ted Fahey (11)
I thought you retired also you guys have a lot of injuries do you think 1st grade will be there in the finals?
Only play when required, should stay in retirement refs don't like me haha. After today's performance we would need a miracle to make it, seems like we have forgotten how to win!
 

Bugeye

Allen Oxlade (6)
Remember 2 of the players were brumbies, Sio & Holmes. All clubs received Brumbies. While you are at it Rock Lobster compare the Wests teams. Strangely Wests are always very active with recruitment but never get mentioned. They had at least 5 or 6 kiwis/recruits come into their team.
Wests beat Royals 46 - 0 today so they could give Vikings a run for their money next week at Jammo in Belco
 

Bullrush

Geoff Shaw (53)
Gungahlin wee much better than the score suggests. I left not too long after half-time and it was 24-23 to Vikings.....must have been a very bad 30min or so at the end there!!
 
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