J'OC won't be playing 12 for the Wallabies

[Hawko]

The Brock's pronouncements in the 'Seventies made more sense than that.

Another Bruce Ross quote that should make it to the G&GR Hall of Fame

 

[Viking]

Given Barnes and Gits are our incumbents and realistically our only other options for 12 apart from JOC (James O'Connor) then Deans' comments just don't makes sense.

lIt seems clear that if you pick Cooper @ 10 then you must have a rugged proven 12, not a guy whose strength is his light stepping. If JOC (James O'Connor) was the man to do the tackling in the 10/12 channel what would he have left to give in attack.

If defence was the real issue then Barnes gets first pick. But Deans has expressed that JOC (James O'Connor) would be able to handle 80minutes, well at the moment Barnes can't even handle 80mins of Super rugby without getting a concussion or coming off injured. At the moment he is far from a rugged 12. That just leaves Gits as an option and he is just as small, if not smaller then JOC (James O'Connor). With the tri-nations ahead JOC (James O'Connor) has time to prove himself at 12.

 

[Viking]

Yes a rugged barging type centre would be perfect outside Cooper. But the reality is we don't have any. A.Fainga doesn't have the strength to be a successful barge centre at Test level and Carter lacks a bit of everything. Mortlock is far from his former self.

I can't see any of these players barging through anything at Test level.

 

[cyclopath]

Why is Barnes even in the mix? He is gradually concussing himself out of all contention in my opinion. He has a serious problem, and I cannot see him being a regular starter in Tests at this rate. Which is a shame.

 

[waratahjesus]

even if barnes is fit, Giteau is first choice this year on form and ability, he is playing in a losing team but he hasnt played this well in a few years, he has experience and ability and is a much better choice than JOC (James O'Connor) currently without question.

 

[Ruggo]

Maybe the mind games have started. O'Connor is no different in size to either Gits or Barnes so I don't but into the size bullshit. WJ makes a good point in his argument about Coopers Width. Gits couldn't handle playing second fiddle in attack last year and Barnes came in as a foil for Cooper. Cooper is now executing conservative rugby better than Barnes with a more accurate kicking game and smart tactical thinking. Barnes just doesn't fit the mould. Defense is the only selling point he has on current form. If it is not going to be JOC (James O'Connor) at 12 I would like to see Ant Fainga'a there.

 

[tigerland12]

As someone said before, I would much rather Cam Shepherd,Davies,Morahan or McCabe on the wing an had O'Connor 12. I have never had faith in Deans,some of his decisions are confusing. He is a looney at times, James O'Connor is the best 12 in the country, why put him on the wing and let the second choice 12 play when there is many wingers capable of starting

 

[qwerty51]

So JOC (James O'Connor)'s nearly mastered goalkicking already? Deans obviously didn't watch the Brumbies game?

 

[Riptide]

i think it a good call, he said for 80 minutes not never. with quades defence having another small player next to him for the first 20/30 of a match against a decent team is going to see alot of traffic running at them and he would be much against tired forwards towards the back end of a half than worrying about the opening exchanges.

i really dont see a cooper JOC (James O'Connor) centre combo working anyway, not for the wobs, not for qld. quades biggest assets are the width he brings to a game, i dont think having a player who is creative and relys on stepping next to him ads anything, its better for that player to join the line from the back at 15 or as a roving winger and i get what deans is trying to do there. having a barge centre like mortlock in 12 would be much better, both, JOC (James O'Connor) and Beale can join the line when we need them, its decent system.

I agree with most of this to be honest. Breaking the gain line from first phase is still one of the most critical aspects of the game. Everything flows more easily from there and sometimes the 12 needs to hit the ball up, or deal with the oppo hitting it up in the 10/12 channel. JOC (James O'Connor) can still get his touches entering the line and picking his spots.

However, Giteau is not appreciably bigger than JOC (James O'Connor), so Dean's reasoning is probably not cast iron on the matter.

 

[Tank]

two different thoughts bruce, bonded by my special bread of punctuation, i believe having a barge centre next to cooper would be better with coopers playing style, i get that deans is using playmakers in other positions, beale and JOC (James O'Connor) so they can inject themselves intot he line rather than be cut out by coopers pass.

I do get your thrust WJ but I would counter by saying that having a creative and quick stepper like JOC (James O'Connor) outside Cooper puts a whole lot of doubt in the mind of the opposition defence - who know that Quade's biggest asset is his wide passing game - the line will have to be alive much more to a short pass to JOC (James O'Connor) to step through a gate and thus have to delay their lateral defence by that split second - which gives more time to outside men when Cooper throws the long pass. And then the doubt sets in for future plays and more holes potentially open up..

That, to me, is one of main things a Cooper JOC (James O'Connor) pairing will add

 

[Richo]

Let's not forget that Quade also has a beautiful inside ball.

 

[todd4]

Maybe Robbie feels the need to compete verbally with PdV?

 

[Viking]

This thread is turning into "who should be wallaby 12". For me it should be "Deans' reasoning for selecting players is shit house".

even if barnes is fit, Giteau is first choice this year on form and ability, he is playing in a losing team but he hasnt played this well in a few years, he has experience and ability and is a much better choice than JOC (James O'Connor) currently without question.

Your argument is very valid. But lets not forget we are not arguing that Gits is a better choice as he has more experience. We arguing that Deans is wrong in saying JOC (James O'Connor) should not be 12 for his lack of size. Deans should have really said JOC (James O'Connor) lacks test experience at 12, a much more valid argument.

 

[tigerland12]

What if Drew Mitchell is fit? You can't leave O'Connor or Ioane out of your side, god I wanted Deans to get the boot a year ago and he keeps giving me reasons for wanting him out now.

 

[Dumbledore]

What if Drew Mitchell is fit? You can't leave O'Connor or Ioane out of your side, god I wanted Deans to get the boot a year ago and he keeps giving me reasons for wanting him out now.

If Mitchell is fit then that changes the equation entirely. I'd say Deans currently places more value on Bieber's counter-attacking and finishing abilities than he does on his ball playing though the centres. Either that or he's just foxing and basically declaring the 12 jumper wide open for Giteau, Barnes, A. Fainga'a or whoever to grab. It's a WC year, the normal rules for this sort of article don't apply. Further, the article doesn't even specifically say NO 12 FOR JOC (James O'Connor), it just quotes Deans saying he's not sure he'll last 80 playing there. Could be he'll play the first half of a game on the wing, then come in, could be the other way round, could be just about anything. Not wanting to sound like an apologist, because I agree it sounds weird, but I don't really think this is enough reason to suggest Deans should have got the boot.

 

[tigerland12]

Not wanting to sound like an apologist, because I agree it sounds weird, but I don't really think this is enough reason to suggest Deans should have got the boot.

Yeah I know, just never been a fan of him. But yeah I can't see why you wouldn't play your best 12 in the country.....at 12? I was looking foward to seeing Quade and O'Connor play next to eachother

 

[Jnor]

This is a bit disappointing - though I think he can still do a lot of things that a lot of wingers can't, especially in the roving role. I'm sure we'll still see him in the midfield for set-plays, but it looks like it's Barnes or Giteau for 12 this year:

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/super-rugby/all-blacks-coach-graham-henry-expresses-concern-about-length-of-super-rugby-season-ahead-of-world-cup/story-e6frf4qu-1226064422495

I think there's been just a slight overreaction to Deans' comments here. He doesn't really say anything of note, in reality he could wee just eb keeping his cards close to his chest as to where he wants JOC (James O'Connor) to be playing. I have no doubt we'll be seeing him in 12 for the Wobs soon enough and probably this year

 

[ChargerWA]

I still think JOC (James O'Connor) is a 10. If Cooper had continued on his spiral to destruction, and was now playing League, JOC (James O'Connor) would be the great white hope at 10 this RWC.

I know some of you guys think he needs the space at 12 to work his magic, but I would prefer to see him get his hands on the ball more consistently at 10, to create oppourtunites for the players around him or play 14 so he can beat the man 1 on 1. His creativity at 12 is wasted if he is continually cut out.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I think there is a possibility that he's foxing, on reflection. I am sure with his visits over here this year (he was at the game last week) that he would have had discussions with probable Wallabies. At one game he was in deep discussion with Pocock and I would imagine JOC (James O'Connor) would have been the same. I wouldn't be at all surprised if JOC (James O'Connor) plays 12 this test season. The question is: will he permanently shift there and it in part depends on what happens with Barnes and Mitchell.

 

[Scotty]

two different thoughts bruce, bonded by my special bread of punctuation, i believe having a barge centre next to cooper would be better with coopers playing style, i get that deans is using playmakers in other positions, beale and JOC (James O'Connor) so they can inject themselves intot he line rather than be cut out by coopers pass.

I agree with this if we can find one that is good enough. It is almost an opt out option for Cooper from running a more extravagant play and if he is under pressure from the defense (dish it out so he can be in involved in the next play). It is why I have previously argued for a giteau or JOC (James O'Connor) at 13 instead of 12 as a second playmaker out wide with a bashed in close (AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) could also fulfill this role in close). Also no reason the two centers couldn't swap around for different plays. I know it would be very difficult for the defensive team.