James Horwill stripped of captaincy

[liquor box]

Horwill was all bark and no bite. A poddle who thought he was a pitbull.

Only since he became Reds captain.

The Horwill I like to remember is the feisty fighting tough brutal second rower who took no shit from the opponent and inspired his team by leading with aggression.

The captaincy stopped this as it made no sense for the captain to be binned every game.

I hope this brings out the mongrel in Kev and he gets his mojo back. The wallabies have not had a psycho forward since Finnegan (from time to time) and we miss this insane aggression.

 

[en_force_er]

i cant agree with this. no.10s are regularly considered for the role of VC. Its logical to rely on the bloke that's leading you around the park. If he was given the Captaincy that would be a different story.

Whilst this is true, if you want a player in a playmaker position to have a formal leadership role Genia is the obvious choice. Now, I know we've decided not to "burden" him but Mowen is not getting subbed any time soon so it's really just a title.

Which leads me back to the point that VC rarely, if ever, gets announced for professional teams. It's all a bit odd.

Also, this is Quade. He's the poster boy for turning your shit around and no doubt a blue print for JOC (James O'Connor), but it's strange to see a guy rise to such meteoric heights only 13-14 months out of some pretty major issues.

We can debate Quade's indiscretions all day (or even if they were indiscretions) but the FACT is regardless of doing anything right or wrong a player who courts this kind of controversy shouldn't be in a leadership role with such a quick turn around.

 

[TOCC]

We can debate Quade's indiscretions all day (or even if they were indiscretions) but the FACT is regardless of doing anything right or wrong a player who courts this kind of controversy shouldn't be in a leadership role with such a quick turn around.

Thats not a fact, its a matter of opinion.. Whether Quade deserved the vice captaincy ahead of others id purely debatable.. Genia was dropped only 2 games ago(quick turnaround?), Moore rarely plays the full 80, in the back line AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is the only option but you wouldn't have a wing in a captaincy role anyway..

 

[Brumbieman]

Why Moore is overlooked constantly for captain at Wallaby and provincial level is always beyond me, but I assume the coaches have their reasons.

The only reason I can think is that as Hooker he has always been subbed around the 60min mark (at Wallaby level anyway) and most captains are 80 min players.

But agree with Brum Runner, Genia isn't a captain either. Too abrasive towards to the Ref. Doesn't have Gregan's guile to pull it off.

You can be an excellent player, but it doesn't make you a leader.

Eg, Larkham. Was he ever a captain? Even George Smith, despite a few games, knew himself well enough to know he wasn't a captain. He was a brilliant player, but he was a cog in the wheel.

People like Eales, Mortlock, McCaw, Johnson, Steve Waugh etc, are all excellent players, but they also have that extra something that makes everyone listen to them.

There are many, many ways to inspire people to follow you. It's not a negative thing if Moore, despite his playing ability, is just not the kind of person to captain a side, even if he is a senior player.

 

[Braveheart81]

Thats not a fact, its a matter or opinion..

But what about if it's typed in block capitals? That's got to count for something.

 

[cyclopath]

But what about if it's typed in block capitals? That's got to count for something.

No, that just indicates an errant left pinky!!

 

[RoffsChoice]

Why Moore is overlooked constantly for captain at Wallaby and provincial level is always beyond me, but I assume the coaches have their reasons.

He was Brumbies Captain v the Lions in 2012 and was very meh. His strength is his experience, not his authority.

 

[Tex]

I disagree.

It's notable that Will Genia isn't vice captain.

Reading body language is slightly more credible than phrenology, but Genia's not the most positive bloke on the field. I wouldn't want him in charge of PR as he's taken Gregan's approach to heart and seems to rub referees the wrong way.

He's another one who should be concentrating on his game rather than the team's performance.

 

[Zander]

Why Moore is overlooked constantly for captain at Wallaby and provincial level is always beyond me, but I assume the coaches have their reasons.

The only reason I can think is that as Hooker he has always been subbed around the 60min mark (at Wallaby level anyway) and most captains are 80 min players.

But agree with Brum Runner, Genia isn't a captain either. Too abrasive towards to the Ref. Doesn't have Gregan's guile to pull it off.

Reds vs Brumbies 2011 Suncorp with Matt Giteau

 

[Dan54]

To be quite honest, Genia shouldn't be VC or captain, neither should Horwill if Link was actually going to drop him from team as reported. I would have noone as leader in my team if I thought their head was so far out of kilter I had to drop them to make them play to standard required!!

 

[FilthRugby]

Quade must be on a confidence high after having a blinder against the AB's and is now VC. Confident Quade= Good Quade= Wallabies or Reds win (hopefully).

 

[daz]

I have always worked under the idea that the captain is the first bloke you would pick for the team.

At the moment, sadly, that isn't James. Not sure it is Ben, either, but that is another story.

Strong call by Link. I'd forgotten that a Wallabies coach was allowed to do that.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Whilst this is true, if you want a player in a playmaker position to have a formal leadership role Genia is the obvious choice.

He is the obvious poor choice. In addition to likely being subbed for White at some stage like every other game recently, he has been dropped and is still not quite at his best starting to wane late in the last couple of games as well as having just about all of Horwill's poor qualities and not a lot of his good ones.

The bloke noticeably carries on like a petulant child and has on-field digs at his team mates. Just because he is a good player and a play maker, doesn't make him a playmaker.

In addition to this I imagine one factor in this decision would be the attitude and leadership that Quade shows at training, etc.

Is it not plausible that in addition to getting his act together, he happens to be one of the better leaders in the group?

 

[Train Without a Station]

I have always worked under the idea that the captain is the first bloke you would pick for the team.

Unfortunately there aren't too many blokes who own their position who really are good leaders in the team.

Perfect example is Moore. Great player, great senior member of the squad, doesn't necessarily appear to be a great captain though.

 

[mudskipper]

It makes sense to me... I'm not a massive Quade fan but as flyhalf he should call the plays as shouldnt be underminded by a vice captain... Giving QC (Quade Cooper) more responsibilty will make him step up and be a leader... I think it will work... Other than that mowen is a good captain good head and focussed, players respect him as do Refs... He will do a good job too Horwill wasnt talking to the ref much at all... He does need to just focus on what he can do on teh field as a player first...

So I commend Link for makeing a strong decision... So does this mean Mowen has signed a deal with eth ARU????? Jeez those suits have double standards....

 

[Dan54]

Mud, I would seriously doubt whether any captain or VC would undermine a 10s calls. Captaincy etc is more about collectively getting all the ones who make calls on same page etc, not actually call the moves. Same as in lineouts, when Horwill was captain, didn't make him lineout caller, and would doubt whether he or Mowen would undermine the player that is. Or if they did they would be pisspoor captains.

 

[mudskipper]

Mud, I would seriously doubt whether any captain or VC would undermine a 10s calls. Captaincy etc is more about collectively getting all the ones who make calls on same page etc, not actually call the moves. Same as in lineouts, when Horwill was captain, didn't make him lineout caller, and would doubt whether he or Mowen would undermine the player that is. Or if they did they would be pisspoor captains.

But I think they just get in the way, so its not bad for it to be the play maker... The continuity of the game is set by the captain, calls are calls... team procedures...

 

[Train Without a Station]

But I think they just get in the way, so its not bad for it to be the play maker. The continuity of the game is set by the captain, calls are calls. team procedures.

E.g. "Fuck off I'm the Captain" Gits style?

 

[jay-c]

i know everyones very quick to blame deans for the wallabies woes the last few years but horwill has been the captain since 2011, apart from the 2011 trinations (where it could be argued sa and nz didnt take it seriously) the team has gone backwards> i wonder if part of this could be blamed on poor leadership on field?
as captain i would assume he would have a say in the game plans... and if he didnt thats probably even worse-

 

[Train Without a Station]

i know everyones very quick to blame deans for the wallabies woes the last few years but horwill has been the captain since 2011, apart from the 2011 trinations (where it could be argued sa and nz didnt take it seriously) the team has gone backwards> i wonder if part of this could be blamed on poor leadership on field?
as captain i would assume he would have a say in the game plans. and if he didnt thats probably even worse-

If you are looking for reasons to bag him yes... You could also say that he has been at the Reds for years doing a great job there winning a title and maintaining a spot in the top for consecutive years despite missing a key playmaker for half of each season.