Jake White Quits Brumbies

[Train Without a Station]

My view has always been, regardless of what sport you are playing, any coach that needs to come in and impose his style and then recruit significantly to suit that is not a very good coach.

Link at the Reds and Cheika at the Tahs have both been successful with the core of what they inherited. Every team evolves over time, but they evolved based on what they had and played to suit the players they had.

Field position would not have worked with Foley at 10 for example.

 

[Biffo]

Because it was widely ineffective. It yielded losses to Samoa, Scotland and Ireland.

can you please refresh my memory?
who played at 12 in those three losses?

 

[Train Without a Station]

Mike Harris (Scotland) and Pat McCabe.

 

[Train Without a Station]

FYI that Scotland game was a time if ever, we needed to be able to use a territory based game plan and play with the wind. We had a strong kicking, less attacking minded 12 and even then we failed to execute it adequately simply because we lacked the team around our 9, 10 and 12 to play to that game plan.

 

[Biffo]

Mike Harris (Scotland) and Pat McCabe.

thanks.
there is another one. i think.

QCoop played at 12 when the Wallabies lost to Scotland in Scotland.

who were the 10s for those games?
i think Giteau for two and Barnes and QCoop for one each.

 

[Biffo]

FYI that Scotland game was a time if ever, we needed to be able to use a territory based game plan and play with the wind. We had a strong kicking, less attacking minded 12 and even then we failed to execute it adequately simply because we lacked the team around our 9, 10 and 12 to play to that game plan.

Barnes at 10, Harris at 12.
yes, they can kick.
that was a silly game that should be simply deleted from analysis.
the conditions were awful and the Wallabies were chose from a limited part of the cattle paddock and had only one day to prepare, having played Soup three days earlier.

there is another loss to Scotland with an interesting 10/12 combo.
Murrayfield, 22/11/09.
10 Giteau
12 QCoop

agreed about your last point.
i see too much scape-goating individual players for losses and poor winning performances.
not enough attention is paid to how we play the game and the skills to play any "style".

 

[Lorenzo]

Because it was widely ineffective. It yielded losses to Samoa, Scotland and Ireland.

To refer to results against previous All Blacks sides is flawed logic. Why? Because you cannot say they were equal opposition to the current team. The All Blacks world ranking in September each year has been as follows:

2014: 93.75
2013: 92.07
2012: 92.43
2011: 90.62

They appear to have been on an upward trajectory in the context of their results. As the points system works on winning teams taking them off their losing opposition, in the context of the other teams in World Rugby, the All Blacks are improving.

The quality of a 2014 may have defeated a 2011 side. For reference our rankings points have been:

2014: 87.07
2013: 83.34
2012: 86.62
2011: 84.84

We are ranked the highest that we ever have been at the end of September in the past 4 seasons. Just so have the All Blacks.

So you say there are too many variables when the data suggests Deans' teams were superior, but any data that suggests they weren't is entirely valid? Got it.

 

[Lorenzo]

Worked well on Saturday.
I assume they were kicking for position - they weren't kicking for touch

I wouldn't call conceding 28 points "defending well".

 

[Biffo]

I wouldn't call conceding 28 points "defending well".

+1

anyone remember the last time a Tier 1 team conceded three tries in ten minutes?

 

[Brumby Jack]

Stolen off twitter

 

[Train Without a Station]

So you say there are too many variables when the data suggests Deans' teams were superior, but any data that suggests they weren't is entirely valid? Got it.

No I'm saying that looking at a sample of 4 out 15 games a year, against teams who's ability in the context of other teams may differ widely from now to then, as the the point of reference is flawed.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I wouldn't call conceding 28 points "defending well".

I was being sarcastic and that's the point: when we held the ball we were fine when we aimlessly kicked we were shit.
We do not do kicking well.
And be because we just put it down the middle and they ran it back from half way by the time we got to the championship minutes we were rooted. The game was lost in the first 20 not the last 10: all that happened in the last 10 was that we paid the price for the tactics in the first 20.
IMO.

 

[Biffo]

I was being sarcastic and that's the point: when we held the ball we were fine when we aimlessly kicked we were shit.
We do not do kicking well.
And be because we just put it down the middle and they ran it back from half way by the time we got to the championship minutes we were rooted. The game was lost in the first 20 not the last 10: all that happened in the last 10 was that we paid the price for the tactics in the first 20.
IMO.

+1.
excellent conclusions and comments.

and while we are on the subject of kicking skills, none of the Wallabies' basic skills are anywhere near good enough to challenge the AIGs.

 

[qwerty51]

+1

anyone remember the last time a Tier 1 team conceded three tries in ten minutes?

Oh how quick you've forgotten! Eden Park just 5 weeks ago.

 

[Biffo]

Oh how quick you've forgotten! Eden Park just 5 weeks ago.

memory told me that was 16 minutes.
i hope i am right and you are wrong.
if the reverse, the Wallabies have a very ignominious double for this year.

i must confess that i have developed a very strong selective memory.
it is usually well controlled, but sometimes it runs along on auto pilot.

 

[qwerty51]

53, 58 and 60th.

 

[Biffo]

oh dear
ESPN tells me that the AIGs scored in minutes 27, 30, 53, 59, 60 and 80.
three tries in seven minutes from 53-60

 

[Brumby Runner]

How do Julian Savea, Ma'a Nonu and Conrad Smith go at tactical kicking?

They all seem to be able to put in a good short kick that Savea is most likely to recover and often score from. Is that tactical?

 

[qwerty51]

Lambie re-signs less than 24 hours after Jake's gone.. no coincidence there.

 

[Train Without a Station]

They all seem to be able to put in a good short kick that Savea is most likely to recover and often score from. Is that tactical?

I don't know, is the kick that Folau put in against Argentina that Betham was able to contest and recover a tactical kick?

If so then yes.

But neither he, nor the AB's 3 would be kicking for field position.