Jaguares vs Force - Velez Sarfields Stadium

[Moono75]

The most pleasing thing was to see the boys front up to the Jags. Shows the spirit in the team. Great to see Coleman back and being the enforcer. Long trip home to front up to the men from Otago on Saturday.

 

[Hawko]

Say something about this competition when it is the Force, playing at home who will have had by far the worst of the travel timezones this week.

Why the guru's who put the schedule together can't get a bye week to coincide with the end of every team's long trip is beyond me.

 

[ForceFan]

Its getting to the point where I'm not sure if Hodgson or McCalman are first choice anymore.

Hardwick, Naisarani and Koteka are absolute weapons.

As is RHP at 6.

I agree with your comment re Ben McCalman who sadly has played only 21 minutes in 2017.

However, I reckon the numbers show that the Master's apprentices have got a way to go - but their time will come:
(All numbers per 80 mins played)

Matt Hodgson (~36yo): 13 Tackles; 38 Total Ruck Involvements - 29 Attack/9 Defence.
Kane Koteka (23yo): 11 Tackles; 32T -23A/9D
Richard Hardwick (22yo): 10 Tackles; 30T - 21A/9D
Isi Naisarani (22yo): 12 Tackles; 29T - 24A/5D
Ross H-P (23yo); 11 Tackles; 22T - 19A/3D

*Note: Average ruck numbers for Koteka and Hardwick boosted by coming off the bench.
When playing a full game Hodgson has not had <35 Total Ruck Involvements.

The raw stats don't take into account the benefits of on-field leadership, reading of the game, co-ordinating the defensive effort, ability to cover all back row positions, big game experience etc etc.
Yes it is hard to put an old head on young shoulders.
Don't be in a hurry - there's plenty of time for the apprentices to get the benefit of having the old bull around.

Over the past 4 seasons the Western Force has won 21 games.
Only 4 of these have been won without Matt Hodgson - Reds in 2013, Tahs in 2015, Reds & Jags in 2017.
So yes the times are a-changing.

 

[grousehouse]

Did anyone notice how the Force coaches box seemed to have been miked up? Bit dodgy. Interesting to know where that audio was going to.

 

[RugbyReg]

What do you mean miked up? I didn't pick it up?

 

[Nipper]

What do you mean miked up? I didn't pick it up?

On the feed I was watching (ESPN3 in the US), when Wessels was talking to the physio or whoever was running the comms down on the field, you could hear the audio of the message he was giving them thru his walkie-talkie. The part I saw was when Arnold had the yellow, there was a scrum and he was telling them to take Newsome off the scrum, as he was packing down at flanker - something along the lines of "get him off the scrum and back to wing - he's not doing anything anyway!" Kinda funny, actually.

I only recall that one, but there may have been more.

 

[wamberal]

Appalling refereeing. It is about time that the people who run the game realise that we are actually in the entertainment business, not the nit-picking, detail-minded, boreathon business.

 

[Brumby Runner]

The raw stats don't take into account the benefits of on-field leadership, reading of the game, co-ordinating the defensive effort, ability to cover all back row positions, big game experience etc etc.
Yes it is hard to put an old head on young shoulders.
Don't be in a hurry - there's plenty of time for the apprentices to get the benefit of having the old bull around.

Nor, from my observations FF (Folau Fainga'a), the metres lost when pushed backwards in tackles.

I've been very impressed with the quality of the young up and coming back rowers at the Force for a couple of years and have been anticipating their rising in status to starting players over the old bulls for quite some time.

 

[Micheal]

I agree with your comment re Ben McCalman who sadly has played only 21 minutes in 2017.

However, I reckon the numbers show that the Master's apprentices have got a way to go - but their time will come:
(All numbers per 80 mins played)

Matt Hodgson (~36yo): 13 Tackles; 38 Total Ruck Involvements - 29 Attack/9 Defence.
Kane Koteka (23yo): 11 Tackles; 32T -23A/9D
Richard Hardwick (22yo): 10 Tackles; 30T - 21A/9D
Isi Naisarani (22yo): 12 Tackles; 29T - 24A/5D
Ross H-P (23yo); 11 Tackles; 22T - 19A/3D

*Note: Average ruck numbers for Koteka and Hardwick boosted by coming off the bench.
When playing a full game Hodgson has not had <35 Total Ruck Involvements.

The raw stats don't take into account the benefits of on-field leadership, reading of the game, co-ordinating the defensive effort, ability to cover all back row positions, big game experience etc etc.
Yes it is hard to put an old head on young shoulders.
Don't be in a hurry - there's plenty of time for the apprentices to get the benefit of having the old bull around.

Over the past 4 seasons the Western Force has won 21 games.
Only 4 of these have been won without Matt Hodgson - Reds in 2013, Tahs in 2015, Reds & Jags in 2017.
So yes the times are a-changing.

Thanks for this - always great stats from you!

I'd be interesting to see ball carrying stats however, as thats where I think the younger cohort definitely have the advantage.

Still, theres definitely merit to them (Hodgson in particular) being in the 23.

Who starts and who finishes however?

Do you want youthful exuberance to start the game, when the stakes are lower, and experience to come on and close it out? The mainstream philosophy has always been the reverse, but I'm not sure if its the best option.

 

[ForceFan]

Do you want youthful exuberance to start the game, when the stakes are lower, and experience to come on and close it out? The mainstream philosophy has always been the reverse, but I'm not sure if its the best option.

The ideal would be to have Hodgson play 1st and 4th Qtrs but that's not possible.

I like you think it better to have the young guys start with Hodgson the finisher due to his broader range of skills.

Yes BR his skills do not include regular m over the gain line but regularly and safely takes the ball into contact in the centre of the park. I'd rather benefit from the rest of Hodgson's game and leave the flashy ball carries to others.

It amazes me that we don't value a player still doing what he's always done at 35 and only too ready to chuck him on the scrap heap.
Everyone thought that Hodgson was done after the 2011 RWC only to see him win his 4th Force Man and 3rd Best Player Award and get another Wallaby recall in 2014 and Captain the Wallabies to a win over the Barbs at Twickenham. I reckon he's earned the right to play on for as long as he wants and is still adding value on the pitch. (as the numbers show he is)

 

[ForceFan]

Nor, from my observations FF (Folau Fainga'a), the metres lost when pushed backwards in tackles.

I've been very impressed with the quality of the young up and coming back rowers at the Force for a couple of years and have been anticipating their rising in status to starting players over the old bulls for quite some time.

An interesting observation considering that Hodgson is having a good year for ball carries.

I too am impressed by the quality of the WF young back rowers.

In 2017 (av per 80 minutes):

Hodgson - 9 carries for 38 m (cf his 9 carries for 10m in 2016)
(Hooper averaged 8 carries for 34m in 2016; 11 for 70m in 2017)
Hardwick - 8 carries for 47m (prior to Jags was 7 carries for 20m)
Naisarani - 8 carries for 65m
RH-P - 6 carries for 35m
Koteka - 6 carries for 28m

As Koteka is really the only other No 7 Hodgson deserves his place on performance alone.

Hardwick & Koteka hardly played Super Rugby in 2016 as Alcock was preferred when Hodgson was injured. (Alcock av 8 carries for 28m in '16; 6 for 47m in '17)

Hardwick showed that he could play OSF at NRC level but has yet to show that he can consistently do the same at Super Rugby level. He has been behind Koteka this year (and last year).
I think he can and will but needs more time to develop his game at Super Rugby level.

But the young players still need to earn their spot and develop consistency at Super Rugby level.

 

[Nipper]

Yes BR his skills do not include regular m over the gain line but regularly and safely takes the ball into contact in the centre of the park. I'd rather benefit from the rest of Hodgson's game and leave the flashy ball carries to others.

It amazes me that we don't value a player still doing what he's always done at 35 and only too ready to chuck him on the scrap heap.
Everyone thought that Hodgson was done after the 2011 RWC only to see him win his 4th Force Man and 3rd Best Player Award and get another Wallaby recall in 2014 and Captain the Wallabies to a win over the Barbs at Twickenham. I reckon he's earned the right to play on for as long as he wants and is still adding value on the pitch. (as the numbers show he is)

He's never been a great ballcarrier, but brings so much more to the table. And if you have a balanced backrow (having, say, Naisarani at 8 and Stander at 6), you have your ball carrying roles covered.

FF (Folau Fainga'a), it seems that many people now look to Hooper as the template for a 7, when he's the exception, rather than the norm. To put it in context, nobody ever said Richie McCaw wasn't a complete player because he didn't have big ball carrying/meter stats!

 

[Brumby Runner]

McCaw and Hodgson shouldn't be even thought of in the same breath.

 

[Nipper]

McCaw and Hodgson shouldn't be even thought of in the same breath.

True - Hodgo isn't as good at cheating.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Hodgo is a bloody legend in terms of what he has given this team over the years. A more honest head down, tail up bloke you'd struggle to find. We do need to plan for a future without him though and I think we've got the makings of a good back row going forward. We just need to develop someone to take over from the leadership he provides.

 

[Forcefield]

McCaw and Hodgson shouldn't be even thought of in the same breath.

Slim 293 and Brumby Runner shouldn't even be thought of in the same breath.

There. Now you know how it feels.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I can take it, and I daresay Matt Hodgson can too. From reports above, it looks like your favourite coach also has doubts about MH's value these days. Not sure that would be true, but interesting nonetheless.

 

[Killer]

Hodgo is a bloody legend in terms of what he has given this team over the years. A more honest head down, tail up bloke you'd struggle to find. We do need to plan for a future without him though and I think we've got the makings of a good back row going forward. We just need to develop someone to take over from the leadership he provides.

I think Heath Tessmann's leadership is undervalued, he seems to be well respected by the young hard chargers who won the NRC for us.
Especially now as Wessell's seems to be going back to that style. We also seem to have the guys now across the field to maintain that aggression for 80min. Nothing like a big aggressive forward pack pushing them back on defence to bring out the mongrel in the backs. The Spirit were great to watch last year.
Won't be easy against a kiwi side tho.

 

[Hawko]

I think Heath Tessmann's leadership is undervalued, he seems to be well respected by the young hard chargers who won the NRC for us.
Especially now as Wessell's seems to be going back to that style. We also seem to have the guys now across the field to maintain that aggression for 80min. Nothing like a big aggressive forward pack pushing them back on defence to bring out the mongrel in the backs. The Spirit were great to watch last year.
Won't be easy against a kiwi side tho.

Absolutely agree on the need for an aggressive forward pack pushing them back, but every NZ team has that as an always-there characteristic. Its only in Australia that we talk up the advantages of having this. I think the Highlanders backs will probably have the edge, because the aggression the Force forwards get at the collision will be nullified by the Highlanders and I'm tipping a close game. Probably a losing bonus point for the Force here. I reckon their win chances are the three derby games coming up - they could easily win all three and if they do they are a chance to top the conference still.