Italy vs Wallabies, EOYT 2010

[Joe Blow]

It would be ridiculous to have a 10-12 of Barnes and Fainga'a. It would just negate our biggest strength at present which is creativity and our unpredictable back play. We saw this first hand in the Leicester game.
If we have Barnes at 10 then Giteau needs to be at 12.
Those long flat accurate missiles Cooper throws both ways really opens up the opposition and there is no-one else in Australian rugby that can do the same. WTF can't they teach this bloke how to tackle?
The real problem is as always the pack. We need at least parity up front. Better still we should dominate all but maybe 2 or 3 teams in the forwards.
Attitude attitude attitude. That's the culprit with bad defense and fielding a pack with a very softy underbelly.
Every player for England yesterday was fired up. Every tackle, every collision and every contest for the ball showed that they wanted it much more than us.
Why do we continually fall off after 1 or 2 wins? We think we are the sh*# and go out and expect to win against good rugby sides without putting in the required effort. Haven't Deans and co worked it out yet?
Italy presents a very good opportunity to see the fringe squad members at the highest level. Deans should pick as many as possible and then go for his new best 22 against France.

 

[Langthorne]

1. Robinson (as he may not be starting Vs France)
2. Moore
3. Alexander (as he is the best in the squad, but not Australia, in this position)
4. Van Humphries
5. Mumm
6. Elsom
7. Pocock
8. Hodgson (this is your big chance buddy)
9. Burgess
10 Barnes
11. Mitchell
12. O'Connor
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. Turner
15. Beale

16. TPN (if he really is fit. If he is not, then someone who will only come on in case of injury or a 20 point lead)
17. Slipper
18. Sharpe (in case it goes tits up)
19. Brown (unless Higginbotham outplays him Vs Munster)
20. Phipps
21. Cooper (sorry, but it turns out the tackling 'thing' is important after all)
22. Hynes


Not a lot of changes in the pack, I know, but the Italian scrum deseves some respect. Hodgson deserves a crack at number 8 with the first choice 6 and 7. If we find ourselves way on top then ring the changes. The Italian backs aren't really all that flash (but they aren't utter shit either), so I'm keen to try out a couple of new combinations at this level. I can't believe Genia is really in peak physical condition, so I'd like to see him rest and maybe get closer to his best for the match with the French. JOC (James O'Connor) and Beale give the 'flair' with the others being pretty solid and capable of hard direct running and tackiling.

 

[Ruggo]

It would be ridiculous to have a 10-12 of Barnes and Fainga'a. It would just negate our biggest strength at present which is creativity and our unpredictable back play. We saw this first hand in the Leicester game.
If we have Barnes at 10 then Giteau needs to be at 12.
Those long flat accurate missiles Cooper throws both ways really opens up the opposition and there is no-one else in Australian rugby that can do the same. WTF can't they teach this bloke how to tackle?
The real problem is as always the pack. We need at least parity up front. Better still we should dominate all but maybe 2 or 3 teams in the forwards.
Attitude attitude attitude. That's the culprit with bad defense and fielding a pack with a very softy underbelly.
Every player for England yesterday was fired up. Every tackle, every collision and every contest for the ball showed that they wanted it much more than us.
Why do we continually fall off after 1 or 2 wins? We think we are the sh*# and go out and expect to win against good rugby sides without putting in the required effort. Haven't Deans and co worked it out yet?
Italy presents a very good opportunity to see the fringe squad members at the highest level. Deans should pick as many as possible and then go for his new best 22 against France.

Well said. I hope the best 22 for the French is the form 22.

 

[Lee Grant]

Italy looked good in the scrum but they were bloody awful in the rest of their play. On the other hand we have been lucky to beat Italy the last two times we played them. Our fellows have a habit of playing down to the ability of lesser teams sometimes.

One didn't have to be a rugby Einstein to work out before the lads left Oz that this was the test match where some players would be rested. The other side of it was that it was going to be a reward for some dirt trackers to get a spot in the match day 22. Depending on the usual jigsaw puzzle of configuring selections to make them fit, those who played best against Leicester and Munster would start in the game.

Look for the players who start against Munster and get yanked earlier than is normal. The could be starting v. Italy.

 

[Bullrush]

If the Wallabies are desperate to win (really?!?! it's ITALY?!?!) you have to have in the forwards:

Pocock
Sharpe
Moore/TPN
Elsom (maybe)

Just pick the rest randomly cos they've either come up short this EOYT OR they're unknown.

Here's the backline I'd be tempted to go with:

Burgess - 9
Turner - 11
Beale - 10
Fainga'a - 12
Gits - 13
O'Conner - 14
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) - 15

Dunno if Gits has played at all at 13 but put an experienced head outside Anthony (someone who straightens the attack) and he may even get some off-load ball too.

If I was a Wallaby supporter, I would want to see the ball in Beale's hands as much as possible a la Dan Carter for the ABs.

 

[Scotty]

I think I would now prefer Gits to start rather than Quade.

Why?

QC (Quade Cooper) has the ability, he needs to show whether he can release the potential and improve his defence. He could be vital to our RWC hopes.
He is a flake, yes, but the same could be said of the likes of Latham in his early wallaby experiences.

Gits is clearly not going to get any better, and apart from one game vs a France B team he has always been average at 10.

I'd prefer to see Beale or Barnes there before Gits.

 

[Lee Grant]

Bullrush

We have stunk in the last two tests in Italy.

Beale played at 10 for Oz A against England at home but he has been so influential playing at 15 for the main team since then I would be loathe to risk him. Maybe you're going to be right though and if not, he may play there from the bench.

A. Finger does straighten the attack but does not pass before the tackle line enough. Not only does one get the disadvantages of crash balling but also he makes himself unavailable to support the fellow he should have passed to.

 

[Brumbies Guy]

1. Robinson
2. Moore
3. Alexander
4. Van Humphries
5. Sharpe
6. Elsom
7. Hodgson
8. Higginbotham

9. Burgess
10. Cooper
11. Mitchell
12. Fainga'a
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. Turner
15. Beale

16. Fainga'a/Edmonds/Palota-Nau (who ever is most fit)
17. Slipper
18. Mumm
19. Pocock
20. Phipps
21. Barnes
22. O'Connor

 

[Bullrush]

Bullrush

We have stunk in the last two tests in Italy.

Beale played at 10 for Oz A against England at home but he has been so influential playing at 15 for the main team since then I would be loathe to risk him. Maybe you're going to be right though and if not, he may play there from the bench.

A. Finger does straighten the attack but does not pass before the tackle line enough. Not only does one get the disadvantages of crash balling but also he makes himself unavailable to support the fellow he should have passed to.

Beale also took the Tahs to a Super Rugby Final which they were winning before he got injured. It wasn't all him obviously but I just think that he has matured both on and off the field and with the skills he has, he could be carving teams up if he had the ball more. I don't honestly think QC (Quade Cooper) brings that much more to the table than KB (Kurtley Beale) - and KB (Kurtley Beale) has a tackle rate above 50%.

Re: 12 and 13. Maybe Fainga'a just need to be told to pass more? Or maybe JOC (James O'Connor) at 12 and Fainga'a at 13? I think the Wallabies need a bit more of the direct play that he brings is all.

 

[Grandmaster Flash]

O'Connor won't be available for the Italy test. http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8140651

 

[RugbyReg]

Scotty why drop Quade? Because his deserves it. There is no way his defense is test class and he hasn't shown enough in attack to make up for this weakness. Deans should no longer reward him with selection until QC (Quade Cooper) fixes it.

Don't forget Latho was also dropped for his perceived frailties. He served him well. By all reports Quade is a hard worker but perhaps he needs a gentle reminder that he needs to work harder on that part of the game.

 

[MrMouse]

I think it's kind of specious reasoning to say QC (Quade Cooper)'s defence is shit so drop him until it improves. What player, observer, journalist or coach in Australia did not know when QC (Quade Cooper) was picked that his defence was beyond awful? It's a know defect, caveat emptor and all that jazz. The team basically has two tests left to figure out the best way/combination to work around this, otherwise he is not an option for the RWC.

In that light, Barnes in for Giteau makes most sense. Barnes can help cover him in defence, he's an organiser and steadier, and he can kick.

For other selections, I'd go Turner for JOC (James O'Connor) but having Hynes on the bench v Munster implies it will be him. I'd have whoever performs best of the locks and backrowers v Munster on the bench (tipping Van and Hodgo). Leave the front row alone with the understanding that they will be dropped for France (and beyond) if they under-perform. McCalman has to play to prove himself. So my team looks something like this:

1. Robinson
2. Moore
3. Alexander
4. Chisholm
5. Sharpe
6. Elsom
7. Pocock
8. McCalman

9. Burgess
10. Cooper
11. Mitchell
12. Barnes
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. Turner/Hynes
15. Beale

16. Polota-Nau (if fit)
17. Slipper
18. Humphries*
19. Hodgson*
20. Phipps
21. Giteau
22. Hynes/Turner

 

[Richo]

Pocock and Sharpie both need a rest and should come off the bench. We need them firing on all cylinders against France.

 

[Groucho]

I am becoming convinced by some of the posters on this thread, that KB (Kurtley Beale) should be given a shot at 10. He offers what QC (Quade Cooper) does, and has suddenly learned the art of tackling. If we want a counter-attacking fullback then Hynes is now fit.

 

[Richo]

Before the England game, I would have been in the "not at 10" camp. But Cooper was just so suspect, I'm almost there with you, Groucho.

Given that 10 is where Gilbert might eventually end up post-RWC (with JOC (James O'Connor) at 12), it can't hurt to give him a run there against Italy. If it's crap, he can slide back to FB and Cooper can come off the bench or something.

 

[Scotty]

Scotty why drop Quade? Because his deserves it. There is no way his defense is test class and he hasn't shown enough in attack to make up for this weakness. Deans should no longer reward him with selection until QC (Quade Cooper) fixes it.

Don't forget Latho was also dropped for his perceived frailties. He served him well. By all reports Quade is a hard worker but perhaps he needs a gentle reminder that he needs to work harder on that part of the game.

Doesn't that also apply to Giteau though? His performances haven't been test standard, particularly in the 10 jersey, so why reward him for continued selection?

 

[Scotty]

Before the England game, I would have been in the "not at 10" camp. But Cooper was just so suspect, I'm almost there with you, Groucho.

Given that 10 is where Gilbert might eventually end up post-RWC (with JOC (James O'Connor) at 12), it can't hurt to give him a run there against Italy. If it's crap, he can slide back to FB and Cooper can come off the bench or something.

Beale at 10 could work, and probably should work, but we keep forgetting that he is now excelling in the extra space of fullback. It is his running and support game that is making him so good in that position, and both of these things will be a lot more limited if we stick him at 10.

He is moving towards the mantle of worlds best fullback, why move him?

 

[MrMouse]

Fair point Richo, but that being the case I'd be inclined to start Mumm and Hodgo, rest of the equation remaining the same.

I'm pretty sure that many of those bleating for KB (Kurtley Beale) to switch to 10 now are the same ones who complain that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has been shifted around so much and never allowed to truly master his best position (and JOC (James O'Connor) etc etc). How does that suddenly not apply?

At the start of the year KB (Kurtley Beale) was unfit, unmotivated and potentially third in line for the Tahs at 10 (Barnes, Hangers). He got his fitness kickstarted and got an opportunity at 15. He's developed his speed, agility, attacking, defensive and support play out of sight playing fullback to the point where he's being touted as one of the form fullbacks in the WORLD. Why oh WHY would you fuck with that? With a young bloke, fragile confidence still learning his own game and his position why would you risk throwing that all away on a whim?

 

[RugbyReg]

Italy have left out flyhalf Craig Gower and scrumhalf Tito Tebaldi from their squad to face Australia next weekend after both started Saturday's defeat by Argentina, the Italian rugby federation said on Sunday.

Former Australia rugby league international Gower, who is carrying a knee injury, has been replaced in the squad by Riccardo Bocchino although Luciano Orquera looks favourite to wear the number 10 jersey in Florence on Saturday.

Tebaldi has no injury and has simply been dropped to link up with the Italy A team. Pablo Canavosio is poised to take over at scrumhalf when the team is announced on Thursday.

Flanker Mauro Bergamasco was included in the squad after missing the 22-16 defeat by Argentina with a shoulder injury while hooker Leonardo Ghiraldini hopes to play Australia, beaten by England on Saturday, despite a knee problem.

24-man squad:

Forwards: Robert Barbieri, Mauro Bergamasco, Martin Castrogiovanni, Lorenzo Cittadini, Carlo Antonio Del Fava, Santiago Dellape, Paul Derbyshire, Quintin Geldenhuys, Leonardo Ghiraldini, Andrea Lo Cicero, Fabio Ongaro, Sergio Parisse (captain), Salvatore Perugini, Alessandro Zanni

Backs: Tommaso Benvenuti, Mirco Bergamasco, Riccardo Bocchino, Gonzalo Canale, Pablo Canavosio, Edoardo Gori, Andrea Masi, Luke McLean, Luciano Orquera, Alberto Sgarbi

 

[RugbyReg]

Doesn't that also apply to Giteau though? His performances haven't been test standard, particularly in the 10 jersey, so why reward him for continued selection?

That's a fair call, but I don't think he's been out and out poor as Quade has. He's been disapointing, but I thought he played decently on Saturday. We have no alternatives on tour (I don't want to move Beale from the position he is blitzing all comers in). If To'omua toured, I'd be calling on him to play 10.