ISA Rugby 2013

[sarcophilus]

With the two biggest contributing teams of 2012 in Oak Hill and St Augies loosing the bulk of their forwards last year there may be a bit of a lag in depth this year.

This is backed up by the numbers of backs and forwards trying out for the 16s that are already playing 1st XV for their schools

I hope there is some bias in the selection as running a raffle or looking for a "miracle ball" from a schools 4th grade wont help anyone

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

Also, any news from the Strathfield-Homebush Waratah Shield Game?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

With the two biggest contributing teams of 2012 in Oak Hill and St Augies loosing the bulk of their forwards last year there may be a bit of a lag in depth this year.

This is backed up by the numbers of backs and forwards trying out for the 16s that are already playing 1st XV for their schools

I hope there is some bias in the selection as running a raffle or looking for a "miracle ball" from a schools 4th grade wont help anyone

ISA U16 were particularly impressive at the Schools tournament last year, and a number of those lads were selected for either Juniors or Schools at the National U16's. A lot of the ISA U16's last year were already playing 1st XV rugby in 2012, so there may not be too much of a issue with depth coming through this year with those lads.

IIRC Walker (St Aug & NSW School U16 2012) played ISA 2 last year.

I don't get to see too much of the ISA games but from what I have seen they should be competitive with the other associations for #6 - #8, #10 - #14.

There may be some relative skill gap at #9 (ISA were well served the last couple of years by Natoli) and #15.

Not sure that this years fatties are of the necessary (relative) size to be really competitive. The other associations have some bulldozers and bullocks with numbers < 6 on their backs.

The bigguns from Oakhill and Augies year 12's of 2012 will be missed.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

ISA Squad to play NSWSRU trials on Sunday June 16 at Pittwater Rugby Park

Auggies
A Tukipilli, M Cook, J Lough, J Taefotu, J Ibbotson, J Walker, S Halaifonua, M Arnold, C Taylor, J Parker, H Cochrane, B Fontaine, B Hollis, G McDonald, M Osborn, J Kaplan, A Hanigan.

St Gregorys
A Massima, C Kagliassis, D Green, J Faavae-Eli, A Currie

St Patricks
M Edwards, P Agliozzo, J Taweel, J Marcus

St Andrews
D Moore, E Adcock

Kinross Woloroi
N Yeomans, B Freeman

St Stanislaus'
J Melville, C Burke

Oakhill
J Partridge, B Cotton, J Anderson, M Brinnand

Central Coast Grammar
M Hundt

Chevalier
P Byrne

Source: Daily Terrorgraph Sports Page.

38 players named. Clearly 15 + 15 + 8 Bench as postulated above.
No Team Breakdown given.
Lions share of players from Auggies. Good showing from St Gregs, Pats and Oakhill.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

No Under 16 ISA team list in the paper today. Any idea when this will be announced?

 

[rugbydownsouth]

St Augs got a couple of their young forwards into the 1s and a few of their backs. Isa 2s got most of them. Should be a good team. Sorry ,don't know any of the names

Honestly, how does that work? No other school or source knows the placement of 1sts and 2nds in the ISA squad, but St Augustine's seem to have full knowledge of their placement within the squad. I'm sure that information was meant to be revealed at the first training session for the ISA squad?!? It is grossly unfair that one school has access to this knowledge while others wait for the selectors to announce the teams at the specified date.

On another issue, I grant that St Augustine's have been and continue to be the form 1st xv team and rugby school in the ISA. In my eyes St Augustine's should have a very strong representation in the ISA squad. However is St Augustine's that far ahead of every other school, they can have 2nd grade players in an such a competitive rep squad. Surely there are players in Oakhill, Kinross and St Pats 1st XV as well as the other ISA member schools 1sts that would be better players than those of St Augustine's 2nds. Yes St Pats and Oakhill got decent numbers in the squad, but I'm sure when the ISA rolls around, there respective 2nd xv's will be more than competitive with the St Augustine's 2nds who mathematically must contain ISA rep players. Is St Augustine's talent pool in the 2nd xv really the same as that of Kinross Wolaroi and Stannies 1st xv's, because based on numbers the Kinross and Stannies 1sts teams have the same representation in the ISA squad as St Augustine's 2nds, with two players.

I'd really be interested to know what grades some of the St Augustine's representatives were in 2012. Let me emphasise some, as I've stated St Augustine's is the form rugby school in the ISA and that is a result of having talented players like Max Cook, John Walker, Hayden Cochrane, Taefotu etc. however the list certainly isn't 17 strong.

With all this been said, St Augustine's certainly have a lt to prove to may I'm sure this season and I'm positive that the likes of Kinross and Oakhill will be looking to knock St Augustines of their perch.

 

[Runner]

Honestly, how does that work? No other school or source knows the placement of 1sts and 2nds in the ISA squad, but St Augustine's seem to have full knowledge of their placement within the squad. I'm sure that information was meant to be revealed at the first training session for the ISA squad?!? It is grossly unfair that one school has access to this knowledge while others wait for the selectors to announce the teams at the specified date.

On another issue, I grant that St Augustine's have been and continue to be the form 1st xv team and rugby school in the ISA. In my eyes St Augustine's should have a very strong representation in the ISA squad. However is St Augustine's that far ahead of every other school, they can have 2nd grade players in an such a competitive rep squad. Surely there are players in Oakhill, Kinross and St Pats 1st XV as well as the other ISA member schools 1sts that would be better players than those of St Augustine's 2nds. Yes St Pats and Oakhill got decent numbers in the squad, but I'm sure when the ISA rolls around, there respective 2nd xv's will be more than competitive with the St Augustine's 2nds who mathematically must contain ISA rep players. Is St Augustine's talent pool in the 2nd xv really the same as that of Kinross Wolaroi and Stannies 1st xv's, because based on numbers the Kinross and Stannies 1sts teams have the same representation in the ISA squad as St Augustine's 2nds, with two players.

I'd really be interested to know what grades some of the St Augustine's representatives were in 2012. Let me emphasise some, as I've stated St Augustine's is the form rugby school in the ISA and that is a result of having talented players like Max Cook, John Walker, Hayden Cochrane, Taefotu etc. however the list certainly isn't 17 strong.

With all this been said, St Augustine's certainly have a lt to prove to may I'm sure this season and I'm positive that the likes of Kinross and Oakhill will be looking to knock St Augustines of their perch.

Agree on your 1st point if that is the case.
What would be the thought that say Auggies have 2 great fullbacks. One is in 1st and the other in seconds. In another school the 2nds fullback could be in the 1st team.
Perhaps it's also about combinations?

 

[Wood Rat]

ISA U16 were particularly impressive at the Schools tournament last year, and a number of those lads were selected for either Juniors or Schools at the National U16's. A lot of the ISA U16's last year were already playing 1st XV rugby in 2012, so there may not be too much of a issue with depth coming through this year with those lads.
IIRC Walker (St Aug & NSW School U16 2012) played ISA 2 last year.
.

They were unlucky to be on the same side of the draw as the presidents teams last year given they were closer to the presidents than any other team through the comp and surprised the CHS mob the week before. The depth issue remains where a large portion of your team is u17 playing in an u18 comp.

It will be a well qualified and willing u/16 pack again this year. Players from other associations are well known to them and should hold no mystique for them. some familiar names and pedigree in the backs. Its not my place to name anyone before official lists are out

 

[Rugby Tragic]

Firstly, thanks Hugh for getting the team list and now the discussion begins. I am a tad perplexed about the inclusion of Div2 and 3 players, who week in and week out play in a softer competition, they obviously held there own at the trials to be included, but really as rugbydownsouth has pointed out, one would think there are better players playing week in week out in the first division comp?I'm sure that Pat's, Oakhill, Kinross and Stannies would of liked to have sent more to trial but the schools were told to only send players that would make it. i.e Oakhill got 4 in of the 6 they sent. Or do i have it wrong? Hopefully the spread of the Auggies boys will be across both teams. Congratulations to all the boys who made the squad and i look forward to seeing some competitive rugby from ISA at the NSWSRU trials.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Rugby Tragic I think it is great that there are boys from ISA Div 2 schools in the squad that have resisted the lure of approaches from other associations and appear to go to school for educations sake not for some perceived sporting advantage.

Aust schoolboys have had plenty of kids selected from isolated CHS schools, Victoria, WA who are not playing week in week out in "tough" Div 1 type competitions. Black from Chevalier is a recent ISA example. Resist the Rugby Arms Race.

The four Div 2 boys represent just shy of 10% of those selected. Hardly overrepresention.
Auggies with nearly 50% of the squad. Hmmm. They have a good programme and some very talented.

The Selectors can only select from those put forward. It is a fine line between all schools sending their 1st xv in a lottery of hope, and the Oakhill approach of sending those that they think have a good chance of representative honours.

 

[10to12]

Honestly, how does that work? No other school or source knows the placement of 1sts and 2nds in the ISA squad, but St Augustine's seem to have full knowledge of their placement within the squad. I'm sure that information was meant to be revealed at the first training session for the ISA squad?!? It is grossly unfair that one school has access to this knowledge while others wait for the selectors to announce the teams at the specified date.

Talking to one of the boys that I have coached over the years. No names, general info. Isn't the whole point of this forum "To give over little tidbits of information".
All interested coaches would have had access to this same info at the same time if they tried to get it.
Equally it might be wrong and this lad was just expressing his opinion. No conspiracy here!!!

 

[I like to watch]

I just don't understand the focus on where they are from.Why is it not possible for a talented Rugby player to attend a "weaker" Rugby School? Look at Hooper & Jones, they were both educated in the same year at Pius.If they were selected purely on their Schools Rugby reputation they would both be playing subbies for Manly Savers.
As to the high percentage of Augs players, that says more about the depth of the comp, than anything else.All the moaners have yet to explain why this School's competitors continue to select such large numbers from this School.Obviously merit is never considered by the moaners.

 

[blackie]

Firstly, thanks Hugh for getting the team list and now the discussion begins. I am a tad perplexed about the inclusion of Div2 and 3 players, who week in and week out play in a softer competition, they obviously held there own at the trials to be included, but really as rugbydownsouth has pointed out, one would think there are better players playing week in week out in the first division comp?I'm sure that Pat's, Oakhill, Kinross and Stannies would of liked to have sent more to trial but the schools were told to only send players that would make it. i.e Oakhill got 4 in of the 6 they sent. Or do i have it wrong? Hopefully the spread of the Auggies boys will be across both teams. Congratulations to all the boys who made the squad and i look forward to seeing some competitive rugby from ISA at the NSWSRU trials.

RT your comments re the Div 2 players are ill informed.

Chev sent 3 players, all year 11 who spent their summer in the JGS program.While they play Div 2, two of the boys play Club on Sunday.They have already competed at the Under 17 Country Championships and been selected for Country and will be participating at the State Championships in June.This is hardly a soft preparation for ISA trials as the selected player played 70 minutes on both Saturday and Sunday in the front row and had one day off before the trials.

As proven by results in the Div 2 competition this year there is not as big a gap between the bottom Div 1 teams and the top Div 2 teams.

You need to understand that the Div 2 schools are either Co-Ed or are small schools and as a result don't have the numbers to field two teams in each age group and therefore lack depth.

I was at the trials and of what I saw all of the Div 2 players deserved their selection.

 

[The Taxi Driver]

The ISA Under 16 list has been posted under the scholarship thread if interested. 6 from St Augustines (dalton, Nettleton, Elia, Lough (the younger), McRae, Hopoate) and 8 from Oakhill. 2 to be dropped. Big forwards; should be a great contest up front.

 

[hbhrugby]

On another note, St Pat's defeated Homebush Boys 48-12 in their Waratah Shield match yesterday afternoon. From what I saw, three of St Pats ISA rep players weren't playing, not sure why?? Probably player management as they have had ISA trials, Waratah Shield, Grammar on Saturday and Oakhill the next Saturday. Pats seemed to have mixed there team up a bit and certainly weren't playing near their potential. Homebush Boys as you could imagine play a far different brand of rugby that any ISA or private school plays which took St Pats a little time to get use to the almost over the top aggression.

At the end of the day the the technical advantages St Pats had proved to be the real game changer as Homebush couldn't hold a very strong SPC scrum and lineout, as well as maintain consistency in attack. St Pats however gave away far too many penalties at the breakdown, which could prove to be an issue as the ISA draws near.

Have any other ISA schools played their Waratah Shield fixture? I know that Oakhill, Augustines and Stannies have a bye first round as a result of their high finish last year.

Furthermore, what fixtures are been played this weekend heading into the ISA? It is vital that the teams get in a solid performance but manage the rick of injury before competition.

 

[rugbydownsouth]

10to12
I whole heatedly agree that these forums serve a great purpose to find out the ins and outs f schoolboy rugby programs. However the issue that I am concerned about is that not every school has access or knowledge of the selections within the ISA squads. If every school knew where the players had been selected my first reaction would be to use this wonderful resource to find out the intricacies, but that is not the case.

 

[10to12]

10to12
I whole heatedly agree that these forums serve a great purpose to find out the ins and outs f schoolboy rugby programs. However the issue that I am concerned about is that not every school has access or knowledge of the selections within the ISA squads. If every school knew where the players had been selected my first reaction would be to use this wonderful resource to find out the intricacies, but that is not the case.

RDS
Fair call. Having helped in selections over the years the info once decided on is usually not a state secret, you just need to know who to phone. I would have thought it was up to the school coaches/sports masters to show some interest in their boys selections, and to make that call. BTW I have no inside to these selections, I had to talk to the boys who always get to know before us punters.

 

[rugbydownsouth]

Agree on your 1st point if that is the case.
What would be the thought that say Auggies have 2 great fullbacks. One is in 1st and the other in seconds. In another school the 2nds fullback could be in the 1st team.
Perhaps it's also about combinations?

I definetly agree with your point regarding the possibility of a school having two talented players in one position. If that's the case then that player should obviously be considered, if not selected. I do not have an issue with that.

What concerns me is that in previous years St Augustine's have had numerous 2nd xv players represent ISA. The reality is week in week out these talented players who have missed 1st xv selection play the majority of their rugby in the ISA second grade competition. Yes these players would obviously get 1sts game time, but they aren't playing at a consistent 1sts level. I'm sure once the CAS selections occur, there will most likely be no 2nd xv players in the squad. As such, how is a school 2nd xv player going to fair against players who week in week out play in a tougher 1st xv competition??

I know people will disagree but the results of the CAS v ISA matches will be proof enough, because really ISA shouldnt be too far behind CAS.

 

[I like to watch]

The reality is, that ISA will struggle as long as the lack of depth in the ISA is such, that they are selecting multiple players from Augs 2's.
That they are School 2's level, when their School is at full strength but trialled better than students from other schools 1's, speaks volumes for the depth of talent in the other Schools.
It shouldn't matter if a kid is from Augs 2's or 3's or from some ISA affiliate that does not even field a School side.
What matters is how they trial in comparison to the other players.

 

[10to12]

ISA 16 YRS SQUAD
Auggies.
B Dalton
E Faatui
J Hopoate
L Lough
W Macrae
J Nettleton
Pius
F toohey
St Pats
M Marcus
B James
T Rumore
Kinross
C Pratten
SCC
J Donato
D Maweln
J oxley
T Taekata
RFD
P Okosdlnossian
B Forrest
Oakhill
E Bostick
R Burke
Z Campton
R Chelvarajah
H Goddard
A graham,
J Kwok
L Robson
Two to be omitted at June 2 Training