ISA Rugby 2012

[pine cone 3]

I think that Crofty gave a much clearer less biased appraisal. Yes I may ignorant of rugby but I prefer to be measured in my responses rather than beligerant. Become a selector and influnece the process.

As someone more aligned to the CAS brand I have now watched Augustines play on 3 occasions this year (twice as ISA I) and each time I've walked away thinking what is all the fuss about. Quite simply when they come up against a team with a bit of size and a willingness to tackle they seem to have very few answers. They play a one dimensional style that relies on lots of sideways movement where they station a couple of forwards in the backs in an effort to recycle ball quickly and move it again. It certainly didn't work in the ISA games and it didn't work on saturday either. It's a mixture of touch and sevens at times. But still they got 6 NSW selections which I couldn't justify on results or form. Add them to Kings 17 selections and you had half of NSW from 2 schools. Be interesting to see if that bubble bursts too.

With regard to the selection bungle I know plenty of people who had watched Oakhill play trials against CAS schools who were astonished that none of their players was seen to be good enough to get a firsts jumper and the result from saturdays game was not a surprise to me. If the the Augustines people are deluded enough to think they can still justify those selections after the weekends result then I have some real estate I'd like to sell them in a swamp north of Newcastle. No9 made a salient point about how schoolboys are elevated to levels above their ability in the minds of some but was wrong in stating that the myth was revealed on saturday, I think that happened throughout the poor displays in the NSW trials weeks ago.
With regard to Forrest Gumps' liking of Crofty's report I'd ask why wouldn't you? Mr Croft in my opinion was overly benevolent towards Augustines' in his report but he's probably just nicer than me. Old Forrest is also casting stones in a glass house with accusations of beligerance as his assertions (intended or not) that the crowd got Oakhill over the line and that for some reason Augustines weren't focused on the game as reasons for the result are a slight against the opposition efforts albeit backhanded and do hint at a touch of arrogance rather than ignorance.
Don't panic just yet as it's only one loss and the sun will still rise in the morning and who knows if there's another loss then a quick tour of New Zealand early next year for some talented musicians could fix the problem.

 

[I like to watch]

Pine Cone, you shouldn't be embarrassed about being an Oakhill supporter.
Saying you are not, and then posting these bitter diatribes makes you look silly.You do know people can see your previous posts don't you?

 

[Wood Rat]

That's not correct, I believed there were many close selections, with very few standouts. I did make the point there was little between the two teams before the CHS game.I just didn't buy the incessant moaning that certain kids were robbed unfairly.
I was tipping Oakhill, because they have had a much superior preparation for the game. Whilst Oakhill have been training and playing trials all holidays, St Augustines didn't train for a month and last played as a team 6 weeks ago in a one sided game.

That's not an excuse, both teams knew when the game was on, one team was determined to be at their best, and was rewarded for their effort.Good on them.

What coloured jumpers were they wearing six weeks ago? ISA or Augies

No9
"I thought playing 1st XV level requires focus in every encounter unless you are arrogant to the point of not respecting your opposition".
plenty of grand finals have been lost by Minor premiers after gong straight to a final and not having to play minor finals, even amongst profesional competitions. Are you expecting school boys to perform better than ol' hard heads paid to be there, some families have ballenced existences including holidays


and finaly the alusion to a changed system any clues to what that might be
may be back to the days when Oaks Brother A sellected themselves as the CCC team and invited a token from St Pats and Kogorah
Ahhhh Yes!!!
Sorry cant spell

 

[JC Rugby101]

missing Pedro? ayone heard from the bro?

 

[no9]

.I just didn't buy the incessant moaning that certain kids were robbed unfairly.
I was tipping Oakhill, because they have had a much superior preparation for the game. Whilst Oakhill have been training and playing trials all holidays, St Augustines didn't train for a month and last played as a team 6 weeks ago in a one sided game.

That's not an excuse, both teams knew when the game was on, one team was determined to be at their best, and was rewarded for their effort.Good on them.

The fairest way to select a side is to match up the contenders and pick the best performed on the day.
Selecting sides based on scrapbooks is flawed IMO.
The current system seems to favour students from your School, why change it?

Watch, you disappoint me again. I advised you once before to do a bit of due diligence before replying because your unsubstantiated remarks hurt your credibility. Your latest post indicates your either lazy or loose with the truth.

Now you state that Augustines last played as a team together 6 weeks ago but we both know they went around together against CHS 5 weeks ago dressed as ISA and the result indicates they weren't a weak opposition. Most of them then did the same against CAS a week later which brings the timeline down to 4 weeks. 6 players then were a part of the NSW program which meant another 2 weeks of high level training and playing opportunity, so now we're down to 2 weeks for a fair percentage of your players not to mention the 2 players who were Australian representatives. On that schedule they should have been at their peak with a weeks break leading into last saturdays game.

Now lets look at the real preparation that Oakhill had for the game and not your inaccurate assertions of a Test match intensity program. Last full game together 5 weeks ago against St Gregs. 8 players playing the following week in the friday NSW trials and a 1 hour training run and trial game in the second week of the holidays. How you can say "because they have had a much superior preparation for the game and Oakhill have been training and playing trials all holidays" is beyond me and far from the truth. I still can't fathom how you are still validating the ISA selections but hopped off to back the opposition. Nothing like sticking solid. What probably never entered your mind was that other than shaking off some rust with the Waverly trial, was that Oakhill trusted their ability to win because they had done it 3 times before and not a lot had changed.

Yes one team was determined to win and did so but for no other reason than talent. Not test match preparation or crowd influence, just a belief in what they had done before. I'm not that interested in why Augustines weren't up to it other than to say that having observed this age group in all levels of rugby over the past 5 years I told you there were players who would be found out when put under pressure and they were.

In regards to post #70 saturday was the only time we got what you state you believe in, which was to match up the contenders and pick the best performed on the day. In my estimation from saturdays game it would have been 12 Oakhill to 3 Augustines selections. Do I have to justify that ? No the result does that on its own. If you were actually there on the day then you know the farce that was the ISA trials were biased in Augustines favour. So how it favoured Oakhill was also playing with the truth again wasn't it? Perhaps if some common sense had reigned back then you woudn't have had to suffer the incessant moaning and the current attacks.

I do agree that selecting on scrapbooks is not ideal but it's better than playing on scrapbooks.

 

[no9]

What coloured jumpers were they wearing six weeks ago? ISA or Augies

No9
"I thought playing 1st XV level requires focus in every encounter unless you are arrogant to the point of not respecting your opposition".
plenty of grand finals have been lost by Minor premiers after gong straight to a final and not having to play minor finals, even amongst profesional competitions. Are you expecting school boys to perform better than ol' hard heads paid to be there, some families have ballenced existences including holidays


and finaly the alusion to a changed system any clues to what that might be
may be back to the days when Oaks Brother A sellected themselves as the CCC team and invited a token from St Pats and Kogorah
Ahhhh Yes!!!
Sorry cant spell

Rat,

If you take the time to read my reply to ILTW then you will have a clearer picture of what really transpired in the holiday period. I've not heard anything more than a number of the sportsmasters are tired of the rat arsed system currently in place and that the coaches want more say in who they have to coach. Anything would be an improvement on the current system. Your formatting and sentence structure could use some work too.

 

[It is what it is]

When are the keys to the Sheep Station won in this game handed over guys?

 

[no9]

When are the keys to the Sheep Station won in this game handed over guys?

Comical genius

 

[I like to watch]

No 9 sit back take a big breath, enjoy your win last week. Move on with your life.
You are losing perspective and have become irrational.
6 kids split into 2 different squads does not equal a team training together however much you wish to believe it.

"Whether it was a shadowy act of political bastardry designed to enhance one schools standing" is not a rational analysis of the selection process. I was at the trial I saw the possibles/probables trial. There were few standouts.

Finally in regard to last weeks game, I don't think any of the kids wanted the win as badly as you. That is sad.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Can please we take the "unfair ISA selections" to the relevant thread to prevent this cancer spreading here?

Last time I looked there were 8 teams playing ISA rugby Div 1 and 8 teams in Div 2. One could almost be forgiven for thinking that there was only Oakhill and St Augustines playing.

BTW the Div 2 results from last weekend were:
Redfield 50 v BMGS 0
All Saints 49 v Oxley 24
Chevalier 34 v Central Coast Grammar 10
Redlands v Scots no score

On the subject of ISA Selectors, they seemed to do a pretty reasonable job with the U16 selections. Were they the same selectors for the Opens?

There seemed to be a fair representation across all schools, with a couple of lads getting in from Div 2 teams. They performed beyond expectations, and certainly gave GPS1's a fright.

The ISA Mandarins would be hoping that the predators can keep their hands off the stars in this age group as this group could continue to surprise in 2014 when they should be Opens.

 

[RugbyTears]

Can please we take the "unfair ISA selections" to the relevant thread to prevent this cancer spreading here?

Last time I looked there were 8 teams playing ISA rugby Div 1 and 8 teams in Div 2. One could almost be forgiven for thinking that there was only Oakhill and St Augustines playing.

BTW the Div 2 results from last weekend were:
Redfield 50 v BMGS 0
All Saints 49 v Oxley 24
Chevalier 34 v Central Coast Grammar 10
Redlands v Scots no score

On the subject of ISA Selectors, they seemed to do a pretty reasonable job with the U16 selections. Were they the same selectors for the Opens?
.........

Hugh, for god sake, don't mention the "S" word

 

[Blackers13]

OK new topic. A number of former players in the ISA comp in recent years have gone on to play at a higher level. From St Pius, Luke Jones (Rebels) and Michael Hooper (Brumbies and Wallabies) stand out. Auggies Jack Brisby, Salesi Mafu and Kotone Ale are playing Shute Shield as are Oakhill's Blacklock, Boland and Goddard. Have I missed any from the last 5 years and who do we think from the class of 2012 might go on to Super or Wallaby rugby?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Andrews have S Treweek and V Lomax playing 1st Grade Shute Shield for West Harbour. Class of 09 IIRC.

 

[I like to watch]

Manly have Rowntree & Wood sharing the 9 spot before Cottee returned.Hingano & Sione Alo have been playing 1's all year.Warringah has Arnold playing in the 1's, Purcell also made his debut in 1's against Norths this year. All from Augs 09 team.
Richard Hooper from Pius 08 has been playing 1's all year with Manly.
Corey Brown in Norths 1's(Kinross 08)
saw Jarrod Berndt (oakhill 08) playing well in Colts 1's last year.
I thought I saw Boland trundling around in the 2's or 3's with Parra?That's a start

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Lets not forget our drop kicking Prop M Dunning (Northholm Grammar) and his brother C Dunning. Until recently they were regulars at the Woodies.

 

[blues recovery]

At Parra Maile Latekefu from St. Pats and Nick Blacklock from Oakhill are in first grade. Nick Boland has played about 20 first grade games in the past two years and is currently in seconds behind Rodney Maa. Mitch Lees at Eastwood is also an Oakhill old boy. Mitch Greenway from Auggies in Gordon firsts.

 

[lily]

Didn't Rhys and Clay Brodie also go to St Andrews?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Clay went to Waverley and is now with Easts Grade 1's. Played for City vs Country this year.

Rhys went to Andrews and made '10 Schoolboys but has yet to make play for Grade IIRC. He is in Uni Colts 1s. As a fatty, prob best that he is not fast tracked into Grade as he is still a bit young and needs to hone his post school Front row skills before leaping into Grade.

IIRC both lads spent time with both Easts and Uni.

Edit: correction from below

 

[It is what it is]

Clay went to Waverley and is now with Uni Grade 1's. Played for City vs Country this year.

Rhys went to Andrews and made '10 Schoolboys but has yet to make play for Grade IIRC. He is in Uni Colts 1s. As a fatty, prob best that he is not fast tracked into Grade as he is still a bit young and needs to hone his post school Front row skills before leaping into Grade.

IIRC both lads spent time with Easts.

Clay's now playing @ Easts

 

[pine cone 3]

Pine Cone, you shouldn't be embarrassed about being an Oakhill supporter.
Saying you are not, and then posting these bitter diatribes makes you look silly.You do know people can see your previous posts don't you?

While I understand the desire of some contributors to move beyond the rivalry of Oakhill and Augustines please indulge me in redressing Mr Watches assertions of my standing.

Oh dear. If by definition of do I believe every thing you have to say is the truth, then I guess you could classify me as an Oakhill supporter. For your edification I have family at one northshore CAS school, another relative at the other CAS northside institution and a mate with a boy at Oakhill from which I get opportunities to see Oakhill play in the early part of each season. I've also recently stepped out of coaching and call it as I see it particularly when supporting CAS teams engaged against non association opposition. But if it makes you feel hairy chested to create an image for yourself then by all means float your boat.

While you were at the netball on the weekend I took the opportunity to go and watch the ISA game as the CAS is a foregone conclusion it would appear. I've watched enough rugby in my time to make my own decisions in relation to who I think is capable and who isn't and I'm not particularly sorry (couldn't give a f@#k) that you take offence at having someone elses opinion not align with the St Augustines diatribe that you pedal. It actually reminds me of Randwick back in the days when they truly thought that no one else was worthy of playing against them or of a representative jumper if they weren't based at Coogee. It's probably got a lot to do with why they are so reviled today and people who remember the arrogance are so happy to see them struggling now.

Which of the bitter diatribes upset you so much princess? The fact that someone dared to challenge your views of player superiority based on their own observations over 3 full games against quality opposition where scorelines didn't reach the mid 100's. I'm not the only non believer here, I didn't notice you leap to the defence of your tighthead when his technical deficiencies were questioned by Mr Tomasi in the Aus schools forum. Or is it the assertion that this years team are (IMO) living off the legend that past alumni had built for them? Or was it the other elephant in the room, that many of those past alumni were sourced from outside agencies? Up until the weekend it appeared you had resisted this urge but then your No8 appears from nowhere (actually Manly rugby league) if the parents I sat behind are to be believed.

I've watched you dismiss others arguments of injustice with your standard reply of "they are the right selections" or "there where less than a handfull of players worthy" and then expected people to justify their opinions and beliefs to you. The facts' are that in 3 games that mattered (THIS YEAR) Augustines were found wanting as a team, and whether Oakhill wanted it more or not, you can't hide from the result adding weight to the arguments you so easily dismissed earlier in the year. By the way, when did wanting to win more than the opposition become such a bad thing?The All Blacks have been doing it for as long as I can remember. I based my thoughts on saturdays outcome from what I had seen in past games and had no reason to think that Augustines would win. Schoolboy selections whether right or wrong often create a false image that can be brutally exposed by another good side and this is all that has happened again and I'm sure there will be parrallel instances in the GPS competition where the gloss will rub off some newly created legends of the schoolboy game.

While you put whatever slant you like to them, I'm happy for others to read my past contributions and judge the content for themselves. I've noticed that Newbie got a chuckle out of one of the shorter and to the point observations.The tower that Augustines built in the past few years has allowed you to look down on others for a while now but it appears that the foundations may not be as strong as some perceive. Your cries for people to move on will most likely fall on deaf ears as people will enjoy Augustines losses for their own reasons. Enjoy the ride.