ISA Rugby 2012

[Schools Rugby Tribune]

Thanks, JC. St Pats does look like a team to keep an eye on this season. The Bitish School beat Stannies 1st XV by 17-12, and also ran Tonga College close. The latter only lost one match in Japan (to NZ champs, Kelston) over the two weeks.

 

[Schools Rugby Tribune]

Not sure how to insert an image here (please tell me how), but hopefully this link will take you to a pic of the Uruguyans... http://schoolstribune.com/Sanix-Teams-i36-355.htm

 

[RugbyTears]

Word is 9 from Oakhill and 17 from Augustines in a 36 man squad - but TBC.

I thought more than 17 was picked from Auggies.

 

[I like to watch]

I thought more than 17 was picked from Auggies.

+1

 

[no9]

Pedro.
I'm struggling to interpret the ramblings of your replies. I lost interest around the time you were introducing the top 4 teams from NZ into the ISA competition and sending the Augustines Firsts off to the Currie Cup I think. The comments regarding the trials are simply stating ISA policy that you are supposed to trial to be considered for selection which will be ignored to allow for the selection of the Stannies players.

To help you fully understand my position on the matter,Yes I'm an advocate of getting rid of this ineffectual method of selecting the rep teams and am happy to back the exposed form of players within the competition from year to year. This age has been playing for the last 6 years against each other and suprisingly the better players from year 7 are still the best players now, who'd have thought that.

With regards to the other schools getting better I'd still suggest the Gym and hard work as having a greater effect than handing out ISA jumpers.

 

[RugbyTears]

+1

Thanks, 'Watch'. I heard even the ball boys and scrum machine are from Auggies On a serious note, all of us in ISA Div 1 has to acknowledge what Papa has done at Auggies & drag us up a notch or two. Not just at 1st XV but right across the age groups. Oakhill 14A/B/C/D and 15A/B/C/D had completely whitewashed Barker & Knox - yet they reckon they may not win ISA in those age groups. Thats the kind of benchmarking Auggies has brought. I don't care who they pick in the ISA rep teams but at the coal face we all have had to step up because we have to play them year after year. Beautiful thing is although Auggies wins every year but none of the other ISA 1st XVs had capitulated to cricket scores like High & Grammar did in the GPS in the past.... those infamous 100-0 jobs.

 

[stonecutter]

As an ISA follower, it would appear that some common sense has been shown in the preliminary ISA squad announcement. I say some, because I'm not convinced that 4 of the Augustines 2nd XV are better players than opponents from 1 or 2 of the other schools 1st XV's. Contributing to this was that they trialed as a full Augustines XV in 2 of the games played. The advantage of that situation is enormous to any lesser skilled players as the team performance can mask an individuals contribution not to mention that the opposition have only been introduced to each other 5 minutes ago. It is reasons of such inequity that these trials can be pointless and counterproductive at times.

The next hurdle that needs to be jumped is getting the balance correct in the 1st's team. As pointed out by others this school (not team) has been defeated rarely in the past 3 years and it's early days this season. While there are again some very talented players at Augustines I didn't see a Dombkins, Hingano or Purcell running around the other day. On that basis and from what I saw on Tuesday not much has changed in my initial thoughts. By my count the outstanding forwards were Augustines 3, 4 and 6 with Oakhills 2, 4 and 7. I didn't see an outstanding No1 or No8 (as most were playing a mix of 2nd row as well) perhaps Cullinane from Stannies comes into contention although I'd play Goddard or Lloyd ahead of him .

Natoli will play 9 although Gonzalez is very capable with the 10 probably still up for grabs. The Augustines centres showed skill in attack but were unsure in defence at times where as Woodward from Oakhill is a devestating defender and equally good in attack. Canning was unfortunately injured but is more than capable of being in the mix even if pushed to the wing. Cotton was the best fullback on the day and the wing spots are a guess.

If bringing recognition to the abilities of all who play within ISA and achieving parity in selection at State level is the goal of the selectors then it would be foolish to think that playing the Augustines XV in Black jumpers is the best option. A correct combination of the players who have shown their ability to compete at this level over the past 2 seasons is IMHO the best chance of achieving this.

I applaud and respect St Augustines rugby for setting a high standard but there are others who can achieve those levels too.

PS* I hope they serve it up to Scots' tomorrow.

 

[I like to watch]

As an ISA follower, it would appear that some common sense has been shown in the preliminary ISA squad announcement. I say some, because I'm not convinced that 4 of the Augustines 2nd XV are better players than opponents from 1 or 2 of the other schools 1st XV's.

You sound like you know how it works.There is a squad,but they have selected both 1's and 2's and the bench. Injuries are the only thing that will change these teams now.These team selections do not fall in line with the rest of your comments( which in the most part I agree with).
Are you not aware of the team lists yet?

BTW good luck with Joeys tomorrow, but remember that they consider it bad manners to beat them easily!

 

[Heally]

Wow .. a flurry of activity on the posts.. good to see.

Some great points and some intersting ideas. If only there was some influence amongst those with the good ideas then maybe .. just maybe Rugby across te board would be stronger.

My one comment is remember this is schools rugby -the coaches are teachers, not professional coaches and they ave a strong passion for the game and also some loyalties across the board... as do we all. They will not get it right all the time... nor do any of the professional coaches who are paid quite well. Occasionally there is a weird selection that turns out ok.. (eg Phil Kearns)

If you know the team lists, put them up... let us all know No need to hold back.... This is after all about information sharing and supporting the ISA against the other schools .. so if you know the 1st's and 2nd's teams, put it up for all to see and enjoy ..... or argue about

 

[Pedro]

Hey, I have no time at all, for any players who don't hit the gym and hard work, and over a number of years with dedication. I at no point said NZ teams to join ISA. Augustines as you know don't play against challenging opposition, so I suggested they may try top NSW, Queensland, NZ and SA teams, where possible to extend themselves.
For the dedicated individuals who play for other ISA teams I recommend they play colts for their local rugby team instead. I know good players who have gone over to league schools or chosen to play club rugby and have already received rep recognition and I spoke to one this morning who is hoping for a NSW rugby jersey. I know more dedicated talented individuals who really have hit the gym and hard work over the years who play in ISA teams who will receive little or no rep level experience and coaching. I say more fool them, don't play in ISA to have a chance of getting to the top, and that strategy is working and will work for them.

 

[I like to watch]

For the dedicated individuals who play for other ISA teams I recommend they play colts for their local rugby team instead. I know good players who have gone over to league schools or chosen to play club rugby and have already received rep recognition and I spoke to one this morning who is hoping for a NSW rugby jersey. I know more dedicated talented individuals who really have hit the gym and hard work over the years who play in ISA teams who will receive little or no rep level experience and coaching. I say more fool them, don't play in ISA to have a chance of getting to the top, and that strategy is working and will work for them.

Perfect advice, whatever you do don't ask 'what do I have to do to improve',and then work on it, just quit.What a winning attitude.

 

[smokinjoe]

Hey, I have no time at all, for any players who don't hit the gym and hard work, and over a number of years with dedication. I at no point said NZ teams to join ISA. Augustines as you know don't play against challenging opposition, so I suggested they may try top NSW, Queensland, NZ and SA teams, where possible to extend themselves.
For the dedicated individuals who play for other ISA teams I recommend they play colts for their local rugby team instead. I know good players who have gone over to league schools or chosen to play club rugby and have already received rep recognition and I spoke to one this morning who is hoping for a NSW rugby jersey. I know more dedicated talented individuals who really have hit the gym and hard work over the years who play in ISA teams who will receive little or no rep level experience and coaching. I say more fool them, don't play in ISA to have a chance of getting to the top, and that strategy is working and will work for them.

This is reflected in the gap from under 16rugby to colts - Hard to play at club rugby for the last 2 years at school and after school finishes the lads are mature enough for colts. So school football is the only real option (except for real standouts) for age 16-18 and the level of competition depends on what school group your school is in. League provides much better club competitions for the 16-18 ages and hence poaches much of the rugby talent. Club rugby for under 18s?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

ISA Opens Rugby Squad 2012
St. Augustine's College
Sam Curline-Wandl
Max Cook
Rory O’Connor
Matt Philip
Henry Tier
Johnny Walker
Fabian Natoli
Matt Arnold
Charlie Taylor
Jack Donlon
Hayden Cochrane
Karel Lloyd
Harrison Blake
Grant McDonald
Veikune Tuifua
Nick Smart
Sean O'Sullivan
Adam Hanigan
St. Andrew's Cathedral School
Stu Takau
Kinross Wolaroi School
Peter Brooker
Jack Yoemans
Billy Freeman
St. Stanislaus' College
John Stevens
Mitchell Green
Luke Cullinane
Oakhill College
Ash Goddard
Ben Cotton
James Holden
Matthew Gonzalez
Evan Tuckwell
Niall Hoolahan
Gareth Linaker
Dominic Woodward
Jackson Canning
Redfield College
Dylan Vieira
St. Gregory's College
Arthur Currie
Isaiah Dawe
St. Patrick's College
Phillip Angeliozzo

Isaiah Dawe, isn't he the kid of Sudanese extraction. Will be very interested to see how he goes next weekend up at the College.

 

[stonecutter]

You sound like you know how it works.There is a squad,but they have selected both 1's and 2's and the bench. Injuries are the only thing that will change these teams now.These team selections do not fall in line with the rest of your comments( which in the most part I agree with).
Are you not aware of the team lists yet?

BTW good luck with Joeys tomorrow, but remember that they consider it bad manners to beat them easily!

ILTW,
I get the feeling that some people have been privy to the make up of the 2 teams. With regard to your reply about team selections not being in line with my comments can you further elaborate? Is it to do with the balance of Augustines players selected in 1's or the players nominated?

We will be doing our best to disappoint our hosts tomorrow.

 

[I like to watch]

Stonecutter,When you look at the announced squad, it lists the Augs kids basically in jersey no from 1 to 15( with a few omissions) then it list the other 7 or so Augs kids in no discernible order. I would be very surprised if this or something very like this, makes up the bulk of the ISA 1's.

Make sure you get into the arvo tea, experts in this area inform me that the Joeys afternoon tea is a season highlight.

 

[crofty]

Stonecutter,When you look at the announced squad, it lists the Augs kids basically in jersey no from 1 to 15( with a few omissions) then it list the other 7 or so Augs kids in no discernible order. I would be very surprised if this or something very like this, makes up the bulk of the ISA 1's.

Make sure you get into the arvo tea, experts in this area inform me that the Joeys afternoon tea is a season highlight.

ILTW - the wording of your post makes me ask if you would be surprised or not surprised? Personally, I would like to think you would be surprised. As stated a number of posts ago, Oakhill in the current year 12 age group have been undefeated from 14s thru 16s and there is obvious individual talent across the other ISA schools. While respecting the force of Auggies rugby I would hate to think we have arrived at a situation where making their 1st XV represents a walk up start into ISA 1s.

Am salivating at the prospect of the post match Joeys arvo tea - will make a nice precursor to a few beers at the HHH.

 

[I like to watch]

It get s even better, they have a little can bar, that they open after the game. you can sneak one in before arvo tea

 

[Pedro]

I think the selectors got it right !
Hey Heally, great comments. Hills Sports high often come up against ISA in rep and Waratah, Hills got two outside coaches, not teachers, with rugby/league coaching references and experience as long as your arm. So well done ISA coaches/teachers.
Hey Smokinjoe and Watch, seen year 11 students play colts rugby, the club loved them, often coaches from the same schools and had rep experience in their positions. Clubs as a whole have specific positional expertise advise to offer and their coaches sometimes are still playing or very recently played.
Watch, those kids didn't quit and you know it, they did ask, they found out what to do to improve. One played for N.S.W. in 2010.
Year 11 kids making school seconds or just in 1s team (accept St Augustine's) are not getting ISA rep selection and coaching. Play club colts, chance of getting under 18 rep selection. Train with both school and club in year 11. Don't let anything stand in your way. Find a way. Hit out for ISA rep in year 12.

 

[no9]

Let me say firstly this isn't about Augustines vs Oakhill/Stannies/ Pat's/ anyone. It's about ISA rugby and it's standing amongst the schoolboy associations. Did anybody notice within this forum that a GPS vs CAS vs CHS site popped up for discussion. Whether intentional or not it shows where ISA is regarded in many opinions. GPS don't bother to play ISA at rep level but are only to keen to have trial fixtures. Augustines and Oakhill (and hopefully now Pat's) have set a standard that now exceeds the CAS teams but the job doesn't stop there. When you play another associations best combined teams you do similar, not send in a school XV team on its own. Even one as good as Augustines.

If it goes the way its being told here and Augustines are basically the ISA 1st's then its' no better than what we've had before. Why can't they get it right For F's Sake. I'm not saying the Augustines guys aren't good players, only that in 5 or 6 positions there are better individual players available. It just highlights to me the inadequecies of the system we have and those who run it. The players aren't the problem here. GPS, god bless them, seem to be the ones who get it right each time and considering the head start to NSW they already get it's sickening to think we contribute to it through or own deficiencies/stupidity.

It would be stupifying to think that the same Oakhill boys who gave Augustines (with Dombkins, Purcell and Conlon) a real fright last year as year 11's and played ISA 1's and 2's will be overlooked for players who were running around in the 16's or losing 2nd's team at the same time. Has something happened to justify that reasoning. Playing trials as a full XV while others are split amongst the div 2 players certainly helps the cause but that's for another day.

Perhaps the sad truth is it will never be fixed and sooner or later we'll sink back to the level the players have pulled us up from. It's not that many years ago that 40 and 50 point thrashings were the norm for ISA schools when playing the big brothers. Good luck to all the ISA schools playing GPS opposition today, rip in.

PS* Pedro, you would appear to be perfectly suited to being an ISA selector under the current format.

 

[Done that]

Why so few St.Pats boys ?
After all the recent comments about them I was expecting more.
1 out of 38 is a pretty low representation .