ISA 2022

[WLF3]

Yeah apologies there WLF3 - I'm tarring you both with the same brush and that's not fair. My interactions with the CAS stretch all the way back to when I was at school in the aftermath of us (St. Pats) being in the CAS and then being kicked out of the CAS with no clear reason as to why so my automatic reaction to things like this is to aim for the nuts first! I should move on I always assume that when it comes to us, it's an ISA vs GPS/CAS thing but in reality it is probably not so. I always find it humorous when I hear GPS folk refer to the CAS as "the great unwashed!" when there is so little difference between each of these schools.

From what Ive read over in the CAS forum there seems to be a spirit of co-operation within the CAS to work collaboratively with everyone and this is obviously to be encouraged. And you're dead right though - the ring fencing that goes on with GPS is always a worry to me. I shouldn't be, but I tend to think cynically when I see things like this (GPS acting unilaterally) and automatically assume that it is for brand protection and nothing else.

Interesting times ahead WLF3 and I suspect your closer to the CAS coal face than others within this forum. Would be very keen to hear how your CAS school responds to this and the association as a whole.

Relax DA, Couldn't help myself!

BTW the 6 schools currently in the CAS have always been them same since 1943, no other school has ever been a member.
Remember these associations cover more than just Rugby, eg Athletics, swimming, cricket etc.

Now here is some info you WILL find very interesting, which will hopefully alleviate some of that long held fury, or misconception, about St.Pats not being allowed into the CAS, and trust me, it is spot on.

I am very close to my school, coaches etc, and a particular Brother, who has long retired but is the school Icon and coached myself and many others in the 1sts XV for many years, so his knowledge of such schoolboy history is beyond comparison, and fascinating to hear. He also coached and managed many rep schoolboy teams over the years, including the NSW and Aussie schoolboys. Did the same in Cricket!

Now, back to the CAS entry issue. The story goes that the vote to let St.Pats into the CAS had to be unanimous, it almost was except for 1 of the 2 Catholic schools in the 6 CAS school association who voted no, and it wasn't Waverley. There you have it!

Ironically enough, things have changed dramatically in the CAS rugby world since then and now there is a big ability division between the schools, which you are well aware of. I am sure you will find that many discussions take place before next season between the CAS and ISA schools to play more against each other.

Now I am keen to get your take, and other ISA colleagues, eg Hankspank etc, on who should play against the CAS schools.
Clearly you will need to separate the stronger ISA schools and the weaker schools and match them up likewise V the CAS schools of similar caliber.

I am not sure if a tiered system, between these 2 associations, would work here given the relative number of schools of similar ability, my view is that a comp must contain a minimum of at least 8-10 schools of similar ability, generally speaking. So the GPS IMO is a must to form 2 tiers of say approx 10 teams across all 3 associations.

Let it rip!

 

[DaSchmooze]

Relax DA, Couldn't help myself!

BTW the 6 schools currently in the CAS have always been them same since 1943, no other school has ever been a member.
Remember these associations cover more than just Rugby, eg Athletics, swimming, cricket etc.

Now here is some info you WILL find very interesting, which will hopefully alleviate some of that long held fury, or misconception, about St.Pats not being allowed into the CAS, and trust me, it is spot on.

I am very close to my school, coaches etc, and a particular Brother, who has long retired but is the school Icon and coached myself and many others in the 1sts XV for many years, so his knowledge of such schoolboy history is beyond comparison, and fascinating to hear. He also coached and managed many rep schoolboy teams over the years, including the NSW and Aussie schoolboys. Did the same in Cricket!

Now, back to the CAS entry issue. The story goes that the vote to let St.Pats into the CAS had to be unanimous, it almost was except for 1 of the 2 Catholic schools in the 6 CAS school association who voted no, and it wasn't Waverley. There you have it!

Ironically enough, things have changed dramatically in the CAS rugby world since then and now there is a big ability division between the schools, which you are well aware of. I am sure you will find that many discussions take place before next season between the CAS and ISA schools to play more against each other.

Now I am keen to get your take, and other ISA colleagues, eg Hankspank etc, on who should play against the CAS schools.
Clearly you will need to separate the stronger ISA schools and the weaker schools and match them up likewise V the CAS schools of similar caliber.

I am not sure if a tiered system, between these 2 associations, would work here given the relative number of schools of similar ability, my view is that a comp must contain a minimum of at least 8-10 schools of similar ability, generally speaking. So the GPS IMO is a must to form 2 tiers of say approx 10 teams across all 3 associations.

Let it rip!

Wow! With this post I finally win "Who kicked Pats out of the CAS Bingo!"

Knox and Barker (sectarian BS)
Cranbrook (we're not travelling out to Strathfield!)
Trinity (local rivals and to hell with St. Pats)
Waverly (there is but one Christian brothers school and it's us!)
but Aloys!!!!!! Aloys WLF3
No.... no..... it cant be ......
I'm gasping for air here....
say it isnt so WLF3 - TELL ME YOU'RE LYING!!!

 

[WLF3]

Wow! With this post I finally win "Who kicked Pats out of the CAS Bingo!"

Knox and Barker (sectarian BS)
Cranbrook (we're not travelling out to Strathfield!)
Trinity (local rivals and to hell with St. Pats)
Waverly (there is but one Christian brothers school and it's us!)
but Aloys!!!!!! Aloys WLF3
No.... no..... it cant be ......
I'm gasping for air here....
say it isnt so WLF3 - TELL ME YOU'RE LYING!!!

View attachment 14537

DA,

Nope, it is what it is.
Look into my eyes!
You have been told!

 

[DaSchmooze]

Relax DA, Couldn't help myself!

BTW the 6 schools currently in the CAS have always been them same since 1943, no other school has ever been a member.
Remember these associations cover more than just Rugby, eg Athletics, swimming, cricket etc.

Now here is some info you WILL find very interesting, which will hopefully alleviate some of that long held fury, or misconception, about St.Pats not being allowed into the CAS, and trust me, it is spot on.

I am very close to my school, coaches etc, and a particular Brother, who has long retired but is the school Icon and coached myself and many others in the 1sts XV for many years, so his knowledge of such schoolboy history is beyond comparison, and fascinating to hear. He also coached and managed many rep schoolboy teams over the years, including the NSW and Aussie schoolboys. Did the same in Cricket!

Now, back to the CAS entry issue. The story goes that the vote to let St.Pats into the CAS had to be unanimous, it almost was except for 1 of the 2 Catholic schools in the 6 CAS school association who voted no, and it wasn't Waverley. There you have it!

Ironically enough, things have changed dramatically in the CAS rugby world since then and now there is a big ability division between the schools, which you are well aware of. I am sure you will find that many discussions take place before next season between the CAS and ISA schools to play more against each other.

Now I am keen to get your take, and other ISA colleagues, eg Hankspank etc, on who should play against the CAS schools.
Clearly you will need to separate the stronger ISA schools and the weaker schools and match them up likewise V the CAS schools of similar caliber.

I am not sure if a tiered system, between these 2 associations, would work here given the relative number of schools of similar ability, my view is that a comp must contain a minimum of at least 8-10 schools of similar ability, generally speaking. So the GPS IMO is a must to form 2 tiers of say approx 10 teams across all 3 associations.

Let it rip!

Broadly speaking I would see it happening along the line of program size - that is to say that the larger programs play each other and the smaller programs play each other. If that was the case you would have:

Knox, Barker, Waverly, Oakhill, St. Augustines, Pats or Stannies in the large group and
Trinity, Cranbrook, Aloys, Pats/Stannies, Pius, Kinross, Gregs in the smaller group.

There's seven schools in the smaller group BUT the relatively small size of the St. Gregs and Aloys program could mean that they combine on match day as an entity and take turns in matching up against their oppositions 1st XV - or potentially play each other pre-season to determine who plays against the 1st XV teams and who plays the seconds.

This is done on program size and the issue would be if - despite having a small program - your school had a strong 1st XV. For example - Pius is a smaller program but they have had quite a successful year this year.

 

[Mafalda Fuda]

I am told Pats and Pius played as guests in the CAS competition as a potential forrunner of being fully accepted. These schools apprently had made advances to join numerous times over the years. Theye were in the TCS competition at the time which also involved Augies, Chevalier, Oakhill, St Leos. There was no thought at the time by these schools of the welfare of the remaining schools in the TCS. As a result it ceased to be a competition. Augies and Leos went to league, Chev and Oakhill into local competitions.
After a couple of years of SPC & SPX playing in the competition as guests it was decided upon that the season was too long. I would think that it probably coincided with the introduction of the 4 term year also.
It sounds a bit rich of these 2 schools to cry fowl now of the GPS circling their wagons.

 

[DaSchmooze]

I am told Pats and Pius played as guests in the CAS competition as a potential forrunner of being fully accepted. These schools apprently had made advances to join numerous times over the years. Theye were in the TCS competition at the time which also involved Augies, Chevalier, Oakhill, St Leos. There was no thought at the time by these schools of the welfare of the remaining schools in the TCS. As a result it ceased to be a competition. Augies and Leos went to league, Chev and Oakhill into local competitions.
After a couple of years of SPC & SPX playing in the competition as guests it was decided upon that the season was too long. I would think that it probably coincided with the introduction of the 4 term year also.
It sounds a bit rich of these 2 schools to cry fowl now of the GPS circling their wagons.

I dont know if either of them are crying foul Mafalda? In fact, I'd be fairly certain it wouldn't bother them at all. From my own perspective, I would find it a crappy move that if the GPS does intend to do this, then they've probably done so without input or feedback from CAS or ISA.

But who knows - maybe they have, maybe they havent. It's all speculation.

 

[WLF3]

Broadly speaking I would see it happening along the line of program size - that is to say that the larger programs play each other and the smaller programs play each other. If that was the case you would have:

Knox, Barker, Waverly, Oakhill, St. Augustines, Pats or Stannies in the large group and
Trinity, Cranbrook, Aloys, Pats/Stannies, Pius, Kinross, Gregs in the smaller group.

There's seven schools in the smaller group BUT the relatively small size of the St. Gregs and Aloys program could mean that they combine on match day as an entity and take turns in matching up against their oppositions 1st XV - or potentially play each other pre-season to determine who plays against the 1st XV teams and who plays the seconds.

This is done on program size and the issue would be if - despite having a small program - your school had a strong 1st XV. For example - Pius is a smaller program but they have had quite a successful year this year.

Cranbrook would definitely be in the top group, they have 17 teams, and their A teams, particularly their 1sts over the last few years have been very solid, all the talk is that they are building their program, and it does look that way.
I am confident that they would have quite easily beaten Pats, Stannies and probably Auggies over the last 3 years.

Whilst I am quite confident that the teams mentioned will meet each other more often moving forward, I am not sure that the relative comps will change as I think you do need up to 8-10 strong teams to form a formidable comp, not just 5-6, which is what the GPS is at the moment.

 

[WLF3]

I dont know if either of them are crying foul Mafalda? In fact, I'd be fairly certain it wouldn't bother them at all. From my own perspective, I would find it a crappy move that if the GPS does intend to do this, then they've probably done so without input or feedback from CAS or ISA.

But who knows - maybe they have, maybe they havent. It's all speculation.

I don't understand what you guys mean by the GPS here in your discussions!

 

[DaSchmooze]

Cranbrook would definitely be in the top group, they have 17 teams, and their A teams, particularly their 1sts over the last few years have been very solid, all the talk is that they are building their program, and it does look that way.
I am confident that they would have quite easily beaten Pats, Stannies and probably Auggies over the last 3 years.

Whilst I am quite confident that the teams mentioned will meet each other more often moving forward, I am not sure that the relative comps will change as I think you do need up to 8-10 strong teams to form a formidable comp, not just 5-6, which is what the GPS is at the moment.

Yes I think you're right too. At arms length, the ISA comp this year (in 1sts) seemed to be going really well and the closeness of the matches confirms this.

 

[DaSchmooze]

I don't understand what you guys mean by the GPS here in your discussions!

In reference to GPS (potentially) moving to a Home and Away season

 

[The Front Rower]

Relax DA, Couldn't help myself!

BTW the 6 schools currently in the CAS have always been them same since 1943, no other school has ever been a member.
Remember these associations cover more than just Rugby, eg Athletics, swimming, cricket etc.

Now here is some info you WILL find very interesting, which will hopefully alleviate some of that long held fury, or misconception, about St.Pats not being allowed into the CAS, and trust me, it is spot on.

I am very close to my school, coaches etc, and a particular Brother, who has long retired but is the school Icon and coached myself and many others in the 1sts XV for many years, so his knowledge of such schoolboy history is beyond comparison, and fascinating to hear. He also coached and managed many rep schoolboy teams over the years, including the NSW and Aussie schoolboys. Did the same in Cricket!

Now, back to the CAS entry issue. The story goes that the vote to let St.Pats into the CAS had to be unanimous, it almost was except for 1 of the 2 Catholic schools in the 6 CAS school association who voted no, and it wasn't Waverley. There you have it!

Ironically enough, things have changed dramatically in the CAS rugby world since then and now there is a big ability division between the schools, which you are well aware of. I am sure you will find that many discussions take place before next season between the CAS and ISA schools to play more against each other.

Now I am keen to get your take, and other ISA colleagues, eg Hankspank etc, on who should play against the CAS schools.
Clearly you will need to separate the stronger ISA schools and the weaker schools and match them up likewise V the CAS schools of similar caliber.

I am not sure if a tiered system, between these 2 associations, would work here given the relative number of schools of similar ability, my view is that a comp must contain a minimum of at least 8-10 schools of similar ability, generally speaking. So the GPS IMO is a must to form 2 tiers of say approx 10 teams across all 3 associations.

Let it rip!

In the last 1970 and early 80's both St Pats and St Pius were invited to be in the CAS however were never members. The Knox and Barker fraternity didnt like the playing style of the catholic boys and the "experiment " lasted maximum 2-3 years.

 

[The Front Rower]

In the last 1970 and early 80's both St Pats and St Pius were invited to be in the CAS however were never members. The Knox and Barker fraternity didnt like the playing style of the catholic boys and the "experiment " lasted maximum 2-3 years.

The reason being the CAS wanted to potentially expand the competition and schools as they wanted 6/7 rugby matches per season like the GPS rather than 5 annual CAS games. The schools were only an experiment and never ever considered CAS members.

 

[The Front Rower]

Relax DA, Couldn't help myself!

BTW the 6 schools currently in the CAS have always been them same since 1943, no other school has ever been a member.
Remember these associations cover more than just Rugby, eg Athletics, swimming, cricket etc.

Now here is some info you WILL find very interesting, which will hopefully alleviate some of that long held fury, or misconception, about St.Pats not being allowed into the CAS, and trust me, it is spot on.

I am very close to my school, coaches etc, and a particular Brother, who has long retired but is the school Icon and coached myself and many others in the 1sts XV for many years, so his knowledge of such schoolboy history is beyond comparison, and fascinating to hear. He also coached and managed many rep schoolboy teams over the years, including the NSW and Aussie schoolboys. Did the same in Cricket!

Now, back to the CAS entry issue. The story goes that the vote to let St.Pats into the CAS had to be unanimous, it almost was except for 1 of the 2 Catholic schools in the 6 CAS school association who voted no, and it wasn't Waverley. There you have it!

Ironically enough, things have changed dramatically in the CAS rugby world since then and now there is a big ability division between the schools, which you are well aware of. I am sure you will find that many discussions take place before next season between the CAS and ISA schools to play more against each other.

Now I am keen to get your take, and other ISA colleagues, eg Hankspank etc, on who should play against the CAS schools.
Clearly you will need to separate the stronger ISA schools and the weaker schools and match them up likewise V the CAS schools of similar caliber.

I am not sure if a tiered system, between these 2 associations, would work here given the relative number of schools of similar ability, my view is that a comp must contain a minimum of at least 8-10 schools of similar ability, generally speaking. So the GPS IMO is a must to form 2 tiers of say approx 10 teams across all 3 associations.

Let it rip!

Your dead right Knox, Barker and Cranbrook didn't want 2 extra catholic schools in the CAS (They voted against them both) and the st Pats boy and Pius boys would go the knuckle with both Knox and Barker and the schools didn't like it. Australia back in the late 1970 and early 80's was different world.

 

[DaSchmooze]

Ok the final round! Fearless predictions below:

Oakhill vs St. Stanislaus' @ Castle Hill:
Stannies would have been looking towards this game as the season decider (well - at least to draw even on points with Oakhill) but plucky St. Pius put paid to that last week so we're playing for pride! I'd imagine that at the very worst, Oakhill with have forward parity with Stannies and if they can get reasonable amounts of clean ball, Oakhill should take this one easily enough. However, you'd never rule Stannies out and given that they will be stinging after their loss last week, they could well cause an upset. Oakhill to win in a hard-fought game.

St. Gregory's vs St. Patrick's @ Gregory Hills:
Last round games can always through up some unexpected results and this could well be one of them. The current form says Pats should have this one but Gregs are always capable of an upset. I suspect Pats will be too disciplined through the forwards and given their current back line form, this forward dominance will deliver plenty of attacking opportunities. Gregs are never easy at home but I'm saying Pats to get up.

St. Pius X vs St Augustine's @ Oxford Falls
What a game to finish on - The Wakehurst Parkway Shield! * - If you'd ask me at the start of the season who would win this, I'd be saying Auggies by lots but this has been a season very different from the past. Pius will be full steam ahead after their one point win out at Bathurst last week and Auggies may have benefited from the week off. I really have no idea on this one so I'll be bold and say the Blue and Gold too strong at home!

* not an actual shield

Ok experts - over to you

 

[DaSchmooze]

The reason being the CAS wanted to potentially expand the competition and schools as they wanted 6/7 rugby matches per season like the GPS rather than 5 annual CAS games. The schools were only an experiment and never ever considered CAS members.

TFR I went and re-read yours (and others) contributions to the CAS Expansion thread from some years ago. Fascinating reading to be honest and glad to hear from people who were at the coal face at that time.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Confirmed it's happening.​

​

AAGPS Sports Update - 17 AUGUST 2022:​

The AAGPS Chairman Mr Mark Ticehurst, and Executive Officer Mr Nigel Price, in consultation with the GPS Headmasters' Standing Committee wish to provide the following update regarding GPS sporting programmes:

With the 2022 winter competitions concluding on Saturday 13 August, the AAGPS would like to congratulate all Premiership winning teams in addition to the thousands of students that participated each week for their school in their chosen sport. The Athletics season commences this Saturday 20 August, as we eagerly anticipate the 126th AAGPS Athletics Championships which will be held in their full format for the first time since 2019 at Sydney Olympic Park Athletic Centre on Saturday 17 September 2022.

Throughout 2022, the AAGPS has undertaken a strategic review of the AAGPS calendar and sporting programs, in order to maximise offerings and to provide the best possible experience and sporting program for our students. As a result of this process, the AAGPS is announcing changes to the format of some competitions commencing with the summer season from Term 4, 2022. The Basketball, Cricket and Tennis competitions will revert to a "home and away" 14 round model. In the 2023 winter season, the 1st and 2nd XV Rugby and 1st and 2nd Grade Volleyball competitions will revert to a "home and away" 10 round model. All other competitions and sports in the summer and winter seasons will remain as per their current formats.

 

[DaSchmooze]

Confirmed it's happening.​

​

AAGPS Sports Update - 17 AUGUST 2022:​

The AAGPS Chairman Mr Mark Ticehurst, and Executive Officer Mr Nigel Price, in consultation with the GPS Headmasters' Standing Committee wish to provide the following update regarding GPS sporting programmes:

With the 2022 winter competitions concluding on Saturday 13 August, the AAGPS would like to congratulate all Premiership winning teams in addition to the thousands of students that participated each week for their school in their chosen sport. The Athletics season commences this Saturday 20 August, as we eagerly anticipate the 126th AAGPS Athletics Championships which will be held in their full format for the first time since 2019 at Sydney Olympic Park Athletic Centre on Saturday 17 September 2022.

Throughout 2022, the AAGPS has undertaken a strategic review of the AAGPS calendar and sporting programs, in order to maximise offerings and to provide the best possible experience and sporting program for our students. As a result of this process, the AAGPS is announcing changes to the format of some competitions commencing with the summer season from Term 4, 2022. The Basketball, Cricket and Tennis competitions will revert to a "home and away" 14 round model. In the 2023 winter season, the 1st and 2nd XV Rugby and 1st and 2nd Grade Volleyball competitions will revert to a "home and away" 10 round model. All other competitions and sports in the summer and winter seasons will remain as per their current formats.

Ok then - well - to be honest (and upon reflection) I dont see this is to much of an issue for ISA. Your season will start off playing some GPS schools (for 3 weeks max) then you'll play a few more CAS schools then the comp will start week 7 or 8 like it did this year.

The issue will be if CAS tries to follow suit. You wouldn't want to be Aloys or to a lesser extent Trinity right now would you? The prospect of having to face Knox, Barker and Waverley twice in a season would be rough. If CAS stays with the one round only, it will allow those schools to tailor their preseasons to play more like for like opposition.

The 1st and 2nd XV only is an interesting development. It will mean that the lower grades will be free to (again) find suitable like for like opposition, but you could imagine what their match day fixture list would look like. An away team could find their program distributed to the four corners of Sydney to get a game.

 

[KentwellCup>ShuteShield]

Who won this comp this year? After reading this forum it seems like a very close comp.

Good to see the ISA school faring quite well against CAS opposition.

 

[DaSchmooze]

Who won this comp this year? After reading this forum it seems like a very close comp.

Good to see the ISA school faring quite well against CAS opposition.

Oakhill will be crowned victors this weekend regardless if they win or lose and deservedly so. They're a great team.

But 2nd through to 5th is up for grabs with everything hinging on who wins what this weekend.

 

[KentwellCup>ShuteShield]

Oakhill will be crowned victors this weekend regardless if they win or lose and deservedly so. They're a great team.

But 2nd through to 5th is up for grabs with everything hinging on who wins what this weekend.

Oakhill seems like they have been very strong the past couple of years. Is the rugby culture strong there? Or is this new development? I know they've won a few Waratah Cups

Which ISA school has the best rugby culture? As in numbers of teams and 1st XV crowd attendance?