ISA 2019

[DaSchmooze]

The previous headmaster and Pappa built it from the ground up.
They didn’t have a team in every age group, and played in the local village comp, prior to their arrival.
So it’s hard for replacements to match that commitment.

I’ve heard opinions recently, that the Rugby program went from enhancing the School culture, to becoming a drain on the culture.

It's hard to know where that line is in a school context isn't it. From very much at arms length (and seeing what had happened at Eddies in Canberra) it would appear that the measure of success was winning games rather than lifelong Rugby participation. Winning games is all well and good (and should be the by product of a job well done), but if that's the sole focus of the program then I think this raises a few questions about what was it's purpose was to begin with. Schools aren't High Performance units and the minute they start to behave that way, they tend to narrow their focus on just a handful of boys rather than all of the squad.

I'd be keen to know what Auggies transition rates are (players moving from school to club). And not just the professional players - grade, subbies etc.

 

[I like to watch]

I’m not sure that’s right.
My insight is 4th hand, so maybe I shouldn’t have even commented.
It was explained to me that the earliest scholarship recipients understood they were getting a leg up, and immersed themselves in many co curricular activities.
More recent recipients thought it entitled them to be treated differently from others within the School.

I have a nephew that finished there a few years ago, he was in the weakest team in every age group, Pappa would regularly chat with him throughout the years, and critique his performance in a recent game.plenty of his team mates continue to play colts.

 

[DaSchmooze]

I’m not sure that’s right.
My insight is 4th hand, so maybe I shouldn’t have even commented.
It was explained to me that the earliest scholarship recipients understood they were getting a leg up, and immersed themselves in many co curricular activities.
More recent recipients thought it entitled them to be treated differently from others within the School.

I have a nephew that finished there a few years ago, he was in the weakest team in every age group, Pappa would regularly chat with him and critique his performance in a recent game.plenty of his team mates continue to play colts.

I'd be certain that my insight is even further abreast of yours so happy to defer to your judgement.

Sad news about the scholarship holders though and I'd imagine that this probably happens in a number of schools too - a two speed program of the haves and the have nots.

Ultimately, if your dirt trackers don't feel as if their efforts are valued the same as the A graders then your program is headed for rough waters. Would be keen to hear anyone's thoughts on this.

 

[Chip kick]

I don’t misunderstand it.
They’ve gone from fielding 4 teams to 20.
Unless your suggesting they have 16 teams full of scholarship holders.

Didn't say that. we all know you only need 2 -3 talented kids in a team to get results. The amount kids at this school playing both league and union (club as well) on the weekend is what the success is built on. Id say the culture has changed for the better. The schools rugby program has elevated sport as well as academia. The school needed something to lift its status and rugby was a large part of that. The basketball program is second to none with a former Aussie basketball player running the program, rowing the same (former German medalists). The school competes against better talent now because of the rugby success. They also have gone from outside the top 150 to finishing 75th last year in the HSC. Best result ever. So I would say that the culture is pretty focused on success across the whole school. I have had 2 kids at the school, one is still there, I know the boys who have received a leg up well and they all fit in. Most kids go on like every school to play or watch more footy. They are no different to everyone else.

 

[I like to watch]

By treated differently, it was outside the Rugby program, not by coaches.
Little things like not abiding with uniform standards,because they thought those rules didn’t apply to them.

 

[Chip kick]

I think this may of happened, but think about what you are dealing with. Most conform and get it by years 11-12. There are some who are also so appreciative and give back and help with the junior kids.

 

[DaSchmooze]

Didn't say that. we all know you only need 2 -3 talented kids in a team to get results. The amount kids at this school playing both league and union (club as well) on the weekend is what the success is built on. Id say the culture has changed for the better. The schools rugby program has elevated sport as well as academia. The school needed something to lift its status and rugby was a large part of that. The basketball program is second to none with a former Aussie basketball player running the program, rowing the same (former German medalists). The school competes against better talent now because of the rugby success. They also have gone from outside the top 150 to finishing 75th last year in the HSC. Best result ever. So I would say that the culture is pretty focused on success across the whole school. I have had 2 kids at the school, one is still there, I know the boys who have received a leg up well and they all fit in. Most kids go on like every school to play or watch more footy. They are no different to everyone else.

And I think then that's probably a far better metric to base the schools success on then. If their marks are north bound as well as their sporting prowess as a whole - then this suggests a positive school culture is at play.

 

[I like to watch]

I think this may of happened, but think about what you are dealing with. Most conform and get it by years 11-12. There are some who are also so appreciative and give back and help with the junior kids.

I think we are broadly in agreement .
It will be interesting to see how things pan out sans Pappa.

 

[Chip kick]

I

I think we are broadly in agreement .
It will be interesting to see how things pan out sans Pappa.

It will, because the competition needs a strong Auggies as well as the other ISA schools. The current changes that have been made to accommodate the ISA teams to play against the GPS/CAS teams more regularly are leaps and bounds where this was. They might all call it trials but trust me no one wants to lose. Could you imagine what this looks like to your competitors. BTW Tim cleary is now heading up the Aussie schools rugby program, there have been some major changes to the selection process this year. I think he gets it.

 

[Black & White]

I like your thinking B&W, especially Marcellin Randwick - traditionally a very strong sporting culture at the college. However , I think you’ll find they are wedded to the MCC and have been for many a year. This means one weekday afternoon of sport (probably Thursday) - to move to Saturday sport maybe a bridge too far culturally if you know what I mean.

Hello Tah123
Yes, there are barriers but I would see it as a challenge for Rugby administrators to to convert the MCC into a Union Competition, as well as expanding ISA school numbers. May I suggest, one way is for Rugby Australia to start by creating a MCC representative team to tour annually, as a Union team. RA could help supply coaches, equipment and largely pay for the tour as part of a developmental project to expand Rugby.

Just imagine all those boys being exposed to the attractions of touring as a union team. Europe,Japan, Argentina, Italy, Africa and the Pacific Islands would be key destinations. These places would be something that League could never hope to take them to, in their wildest dreams. It would be gradual process over the years, but the allure that Rugby Union, offers something very different from league, could be the stimulus to expand the game at the school boy level. It would be money well spent and possess the capacity to discover new and exciting players.

One can only hope that we have the National and State leadership to be creative in the above manner.

 

[I like to watch]

Hello Tah123
Yes, there are barriers but I would see it as a challenge for Rugby administrators to to convert the MCC into a Union Competition, as well as expanding ISA school numbers. May I suggest, one way is for Rugby Australia to start by creating a MCC representative team to tour annually, as a Union team. RA could help supply coaches, equipment and largely pay for the tour as part of a developmental project to expand Rugby.

Just imagine all those boys being exposed to the attractions of touring as a union team. Europe,Japan, Argentina, Italy, Africa and the Pacific Islands would be key destinations. These places would be something that League could never hope to take them to, in their wildest dreams. It would be gradual process over the years, but the allure that Rugby Union, offers something very different from league, could be the stimulus to expand the game at the school boy level. It would be money well spent and possess the capacity to discover new and exciting players.

One can only hope that we have the National and State leadership to be creative in the above manner.

That’s just bizarre.
Spend the equivalent of a DO on one team in one school?

Then consider the resentment from pretty much every other School in the land......

I don’t think so.

 

[Black & White]

That’s just bizarre.
Spend the equivalent of a DO on one team in one school?

Then consider the resentment from pretty much every other School in the land..

I don’t think so.

Not one school, I clearly state that it would be a MCC representative team, involving multitude schools from within the MCC. It's a growth strategy for the benefit of many schools, whose boys would be exposed to playing Rugby in venues, that League cannot offer.

Thus, your fears are ill founded, as Schoolboy tours have proven to be a successful means of promoting Rugby.

As for resentment, that would occur almost certainly from league stalwarts, which would prove that such a strategy would be a success at the expense of League.


Rugby needs to think outside the box, we have so much more to offer than league at the schoolboy and international level. Let's exploit our advantages "He who dares Wins".

What is your strategy for promoting the game within MCC schools. Would be most interested in hearing your proposals.

 

[Tah123]

Not one school, I clearly state that it would be a MCC representative team, involving multitude schools from within the MCC. It's a growth strategy for the benefit of many schools, whose boys would be exposed to playing Rugby in venues, that League cannot offer.

Thus, your fears are ill founded, as Schoolboy tours have proven to be a successful means of promoting Rugby.

As for resentment, that would occur almost certainly from league stalwarts, which would prove that such a strategy would be a success at the expense of League.


Rugby needs to think outside the box, we have so much more to offer than league at the schoolboy and international level. Let's exploit our advantages "He who dares Wins".

What is your strategy for promoting the game within MCC schools. Would be most interested in hearing your proposals.

Allow me to summarise- let’s grow rugby through a strong ISA. Five years ago the ISA was dominated by Oaks and Auggies. Sounds like the playing field has levelled.

 

[Tram Tracks]

Rugby Australia struggles to support and fund the Australian Schoolboys, who were down to tour Europe 2 years ago but that never happened, let alone the existing competitions, I feel that this concept is good in theory however the reality is School boy rugby is alive and well thanks to the 3 existing competitions which thanks to the history and traditions that exist, continue to drive the game. This is despite the mixed support given from the governing body.

Hello Tah123
Yes, there are barriers but I would see it as a challenge for Rugby administrators to to convert the MCC into a Union Competition, as well as expanding ISA school numbers. May I suggest, one way is for Rugby Australia to start by creating a MCC representative team to tour annually, as a Union team. RA could help supply coaches, equipment and largely pay for the tour as part of a developmental project to expand Rugby.

Just imagine all those boys being exposed to the attractions of touring as a union team. Europe,Japan, Argentina, Italy, Africa and the Pacific Islands would be key destinations. These places would be something that League could never hope to take them to, in their wildest dreams. It would be gradual process over the years, but the allure that Rugby Union, offers something very different from league, could be the stimulus to expand the game at the school boy level. It would be money well spent and possess the capacity to discover new and exciting players.

One can only hope that we have the National and State leadership to be creative in the above manner.

 

[Black & White]

Rugby Australia struggles to support and fund the Australian Schoolboys, who were down to tour Europe 2 years ago but that never happened, let alone the existing competitions, I feel that this concept is good in theory however the reality is School boy rugby is alive and well thanks to the 3 existing competitions which thanks to the history and traditions that exist, continue to drive the game. This is despite the mixed support given from the governing body.

Fair point, in hindsight them as you suggest, together with Tah 123, it is more prudent to stick with our three major competitions and build them up, although I don't see the GPS expanding unless, TAS becomes a larger school and there is a revial of Rugby at Sydney Grammar. Forget High their issues are beyond the school's control. However, I do believe ISA schools are the ones that offer the most hope of increased playing numbers and improved standards of play.

 

[DaSchmooze]

Fair point, in hindsight them as you suggest, together with Tah 123, it is more prudent to stick with our three major competitions and build them up, although I don't see the GPS expanding unless, TAS becomes a larger school and there is a revial of Rugby at Sydney Grammar. Forget High their issues are beyond the school's control. However, I do believe ISA schools are the ones that offer the most hope of increased playing numbers and improved standards of play.

...And the least encumbered with history or tradition. I don't mean to paint those qualities as negatives, rather, it allows them to be more agile, flexible with membership ad respond to change quicker.

 

[Chip kick]

.And the least encumbered with history or tradition. I don't mean to paint those qualities as negatives, rather, it allows them to be more agile, flexible with membership ad respond to change quicker.

Does anyone know how the canberra/act schoolboy system works. I understand you don't need to be a school to play ? Could this be a way forward in the ISA comp.

 

[DaSchmooze]

Does anyone know how the canberra/act schoolboy system works. I understand you don't need to be a school to play ? Could this be a way forward in the ISA comp.

Due to the relatively small numbers down there, all junior players regardless of school or club, play in the one comp. A marriage of convenience but certainly much easier to manage when there's just the one competition to look at.

 

[Chip kick]

Due to the relatively small numbers down there, all junior players regardless of school or club, play in the one comp. A marriage of convenience but certainly much easier to manage when there's just the one competition to look at.

Perhaps this is the way to expand the comp at 1st XV level initially. SJRU are equally struggling with teams to play at that age group. Most of these kids are at non rugby/sport/ high schools but have played rugby through juniors. They could either be eligible to play for the school team or play for the district team.

 

[Black & White]

.And the least encumbered with history or tradition. I don't mean to paint those qualities as negatives, rather, it allows them to be more agile, flexible with membership ad respond to change quicker.

Hello DaSchmooze
Excellent point, the GPS Schools in particular are bounded by tradition to the point, they will be resistant to change even its self-destructive for their own competition. Their inability to include a school such as Knox, when Grammar had clearly thrown the Rugby ball away, is but one example of high bound tradition, at the expense of a renewed competition.