ISA 2017

[Mr ISA Rugby]

It is looking like a lot of rain is on its way with a good chance it may cause some havoc with this week's fixtures. A great shame considering the matchups this week:

Pats v Gregs/Pius - The Gregs team changes week to week but are always competitive. Pats are in a rut after last week's comprehensive flogging and will be looking to make amends. Gregs by 7. Pius 1s will make light work of Pats 2s as you would expect - as I have mentioned previously this solution is completely unfair for schools other than Pius and Gregs and should be changed.

Stannies v Oakhill - Match of the round for me. Stannies would love to continue their triumphant march towards ISA glory with a win against a weaker Oakhill side at Castle Hill. Could be a very even match, especially if the weather plays a role. Stannies by 5.


Auggies v Kinross - This will also be an interesting contest with Auggies being an easy favorite if being played at Rat Park. Yet, Kinross will have the bagpipes playing in Orange giving them an advantage. Though the speed and agility of the Auggies backs are likely to outdo the inexperienced Kinross line up. Auggies by 10.

Fingers crossed we get some rugby this weekend for all teams but it is likely it will reach a stage that only the 1s and 2s may see game time. We can always hope!

 

[DinkyDieDingo]

Some interesting news came my way yesterday. Earlier this week there was a big meeting between the ISA, GPS, and the CAS. They met to discuss a proposal to have a combined schools rugby competition to replace the regular ISA, GPS, and CAS competitions (that's 28 schools if you include ISA Division 2).

ISA and CAS thought it a good idea, but GPS was having none of it. I have my own opinions as to why GPS wants to isolate its schools from a combined comp.

What's everyone's thoughts on a combined schools rugby comp?

 

[Mr ISA Rugby]

Some interesting news came my way yesterday. Earlier this week there was a big meeting between the ISA, GPS, and the CAS. They met to discuss a proposal to have a combined schools rugby competition to replace the regular ISA, GPS, and CAS competitions (that's 28 schools if you include ISA Division 2).

ISA and CAS thought it a good idea, but GPS was having none of it. I have my own opinions as to why GPS wants to isolate its schools from a combined comp.

What's everyone's thoughts on a combined schools rugby comp?

Fantastic idea that I've been pushing for a while but the GPS don't want to loose their prestige. We can always hope!!

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[DinkyDieDingo]

Funnily enough, I had been talking with mates about it last week. We thought, if all 28 schools elected to compete, there could be five divisions. Divs 1 and 2 would have 5 schools, and Divs 3, 4, and 5 would have 6 schools.

We didn't exactly come to an agreement on whether schools should play each once or twice as we all wanted a finals series. The top four schools would move through to the finals, with the winner of a division being promoted. The school that finished on the bottom of their division would be relegated; or alternatively, for Divs 3, and 4, the bottom two teams would battle it out in a 5th/6th decider.

We discussed how it would be difficult for schools to organise transport to and from games, especially ones like Stannies or Kinross, if their 13As were playing at Strathfield whilst their 13Bs played at Warringah and the 13Cs played at Oxford Falls. We boiled it down that it would be more efficient if an entire age group was in the one division to avoid the hassle. But how this played into promotion and relegation was something that couldn't be agreed on. One suggestion was to base it on the overall average of games won by an age group to decide promotion or relegation.

 

[BAR]

Sad to hear there might be resistance to what is a great idea (even if there are challenges to implementation). Under an all schools model you'd think that it'd be possible for GPS/CAS/ISA "conference" results/standings to maintain continuity with history. And, in terms of prestige, what better possibility than being a (or the) big fish in a big pond?

 

[I like to watch]

Not going to happen.
The GPS Schools are not going to weaken their brand, by playing ISA Schools in their competition.
Both Joeys & $cots ceased playing trials against Augustine's, because they had the audacity to beat them easily....

 

[outsidein22]

Not going to happen.

The GPS Schools are not going to weaken their brand, by playing ISA Schools in their competition.

Both Joeys & $cots ceased playing trials against Augustine's, because they had the audacity to beat them easily..

Absolutely right, not sure if people are paying much attention to the discussion on the GPS and CAS forums recently but there has been a lot shocked GPS pundits with their tail between their legs over some strong CAS performances. It really was only a few years ago, 2010-14 and even more recently where Oakhill and St Augustines were frequently defeating the schools from the 'higher' associations. It's quite remarkable how short some memories are in the GPS/CAS schools. Even this year Knox/CAS supporters have seemed to brush aside there loss to Stannies. Based on the form this year I'd love to see Stannies and St Augustine's having a crack at the GPS and CAS heavyweights. I know rep teams aren't an absolute indicator of quality but I do recall ISA I defeating CAS I last year. There is no shortage of talent in ISA.

The thing that really bewilders me is that it would be beneficial for rugby as a whole to have the best playing the best and having their skills tested in the highest quality contests possible. I understand we need to keep tradition but it certainly wouldn't hurt to make it a bit more inclusive.

 

[I like to watch]

The GPS Schools agenda is not to improve Rugby across the state.
It's to help themselves,no one else.
That's not a criticism, it's just the way it is.

 

[CatchnPass]

@outsidein22 - I agree with much of what you say and would welcome a broader CAS/GPS/ISA comp. I do think that if you have another look on the CAS thread from early April you'll find plenty of CAS supporters quite pleased about the Stannies win over Knox, whilst a small no. pointed out it was the first trial of the year for Knox and a no. of injuries to key players, so not too much could really be read into it. Subsequent performances have seen both schools lift since then and a rematch would be interesting. Either way, there's no disrespect for the ISA schools and recognition that the top ISA teams would be worthy opponents for any of the top CAS/GPS teams.

 

[outsidein22]

@outsidein22 - I agree with much of what you say and would welcome a broader CAS/GPS/ISA comp. I do think that if you have another look on the CAS thread from early April you'll find plenty of CAS supporters quite pleased about the Stannies win over Knox, whilst a small no. pointed out it was the first trial of the year for Knox and a no. of injuries to key players, so not too much could really be read into it. Subsequent performances have seen both schools lift since then and a rematch would be interesting. Either way, there's no disrespect for the ISA schools and recognition that the top ISA teams would be worthy opponents for any of the top CAS/GPS teams.

I really hope that Knox, Waverley, Stannies, Augustines etc. all meet in trial matches in future years, it's a step in the right direction.

Simply I don't want the situation to arise where schools will cease to trial against a school as there is a chance they could lose to a school from another association. It has happened to St Augustine's. Funny that Scots stop trialling against St Augustines after a 40 odd point defeat a few years back.

 

[CatchnPass]

Agreed. I would point out though that when Rat Park was washed out for a trial b/w Knox and Augs this year, Knox offered to play at Warawee but Augs declined.

 

[WLF]

Fantastic idea that I've been pushing for a while but the GPS don't want to loose their prestige. We can always hope!!

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Mr ISA/outsidein22/BAR,

If you look back at the CAS and GPS sites, I have banged on about EXACTLY this for ages, and there has been a great deal of ridicule, to be honest,from a few GPS people, but not all.

My view is like yours, for the promotion/rejuvenation of rugby albeit at the schoolboy level, AS A START. Some level has to change it up because the ARU are doing ZIP, the top level isn't delivering, and we are losing the future to the obvious other sports way too fast.

Our lunch is being EATEN!

In fact I feel confident to say that there are a lot of underground supporters who think these GPS/CAS trials have been tremendous, and the forecasts of many have been terrible, Knox and Waverley have done very well.

Nice to hear another association is thinking properly about the future, keep it going!

 

[Mr ISA Rugby]

Mr ISA/outsidein22/BAR,

Nice to hear another association is thinking properly about the future, keep it going!

I think you'll find most ISA Rugby followers would support this move as for many years it has been dominated by the Oakhill and Auggies powerhouses (something Stannies are looking to change this year).

This would revolutionize schoolboy rugby in this state and could be exactly what rugby needs. I would think more players would come to the sport, especially at a school like Pats where soccer is dominating as they would know each game would be a relatively even contest.

In considering what others have mentioned above, the system has to be split among schools, not age groups as not doing so would cause havoc. It wouldn't be that difficult to determine what schools should go where.

For those concerned about losing traditional fixtures (Riverview v Joeys, Stannies v Kinross, Pats v Trinity etc.), these could be played in pre-season trials before a competition that would involve a one-round system and playoffs or a home and away season with the 2 top placed schools playing for promotion, bottom two for demotion. This system would take a few seasons to work itself out with other issues to iron out.

While we are a long way off this coming to fruition, the fact it is being talked about is a very positive sign that there are people with power that are aware of the positives this system brings.

 

[WLF]

I think you'll find most ISA Rugby followers would support this move as for many years it has been dominated by the Oakhill and Auggies powerhouses (something Stannies are looking to change this year).

This would revolutionize schoolboy rugby in this state and could be exactly what rugby needs. I would think more players would come to the sport, especially at a school like Pats where soccer is dominating as they would know each game would be a relatively even contest.

In considering what others have mentioned above, the system has to be split among schools, not age groups as not doing so would cause havoc. It wouldn't be that difficult to determine what schools should go where.

For those concerned about losing traditional fixtures (Riverview v Joeys, Stannies v Kinross, Pats v Trinity etc.), these could be played in pre-season trials before a competition that would involve a one-round system and playoffs or a home and away season with the 2 top placed schools playing for promotion, bottom two for demotion. This system would take a few seasons to work itself out with other issues to iron out.

While we are a long way off this coming to fruition, the fact it is being talked about is a very positive sign that there are people with power that are aware of the positives this system brings.

YES!!!

 

[Black & White]

Not going to happen.
The GPS Schools are not going to weaken their brand, by playing ISA Schools in their competition.
Both Joeys & $cots ceased playing trials against Augustine's, because they had the audacity to beat them easily..

Not all GPS Schools, both Newington and Kings travelled to Orange to play Kinross. Although both won well, these schools have staff connections that accentuate sporting ties. Kinross like New is one of the few schools where Rugby is growing.

They use have about 12 teams (2 in the age Divisions and 4 in the opens), these days they might field 5 in the 13s ( two of the teams are from the prep school) 3 in the 14s,15s, 16s and 5 in the opens.

With Dr Parry, we can expect Rugby to further grow at Kinross and the school to increase its profile, as a school to enrol your boy or girl.

 

[Shane Smeltz]

Agreed. I would point out though that when Rat Park was washed out for a trial b/w Knox and Augs this year, Knox offered to play at Warawee but Augs declined.

Actually I think the trial game was meant to be played at Forestville, at Melwood Oval (home of the mighty Forest Rugby), not Rat Park.
But yes, it was washed out on the day almost at the last minute, unfortunately.

Not sure why the offer to play at Warawee was not taken up.
Pity.

 

[pilfer80]

Stannies should go through undefeated this season (all things being equal for the rest of the season). Beating Auggies at Rat Park in round 1 is certainly the indicator they have what it takes to take out the title this season.

As for the combined competition - having Auggies/Stannies not only come up against, but beat some of the big $$$ schools would be a pleasure to watch. Would certainly kick some sense into some doubters and show the ISA has the talent to knock off the best in the GPS. The GPS certainly do have much better depth than both the ISA and CAS (as shown by the continued strength of the 5 GPS representative sides each season), but the best of the ISA can definitely match it with CAS and GPS's best.

 

[Tah123]

Agree with Mr ISA Rugby on the winners for this week, but I believe the margins will be bigger - I believe Gregs, Stannies and Auggies will all win by 20+. The Pius situation is farcical and not worth comment.

I've now come to the conclusion that the combined GPS/ CAS/ ISA is a MUST for the future of schoolboy rugby and the future of rugby in general. I say this from two perspectives - the elite level and the participation level.

At the elite level the only way Australian rugby is going to succeed is to have the Willie Manus (as an example) of the world having tough matches week in week out. Right now they have a tough match a couple of times per year. Meanwhile across the ditch the Willie Manus of the world are having tough matches every week and heading into senior rugby tougher and more seasoned than their Aussie counterparts. Imagine a comp at 1st XV level consisting of Auggies, Stannies, Knox, Waves, Joeys and Scots - I'd pay to watch any of those games!

At the participation level a number of schools like Pats and Pius are struggling for numbers and trips to Rat Park aren't helping. The current inequity between the strong rugby schools (Auggies, stannies, oaks) and the weaker schools (Pats, Pius, Kinross) is killing rugby at the weaker schools. Most boys just want to have a run, pass the ball and perhaps score a try - they don't mind if they lose by 5 points or so. But when the opposition rack up cricket scores it aint much fun and there comes a point where the "character building" cliché from parents and coaches loses its effect.

In case the ARU haven't noticed junior/schoolboy rugby numbers are down but they don't seem to care too much about that. The talent pool is diminishing. The various associations need to act if the ARU won't. But the old school tie tradition at Hunters Hill and Bellevue Hill is hard to crack - and let's face it, they are scared to play Auggies and Stannies.

 

[Mr ISA Rugby]

Well said Tah123 I agree with everything you said. In dry conditions I'd put the margins wider but the wet usually leads to tighter contests.

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[DinkyDieDingo]

Why don't they do a combined CAS/ISA comp? If the GPS doesn't want a part of it, then its their loss. Numbers wise, the comp would still be big with 22 schools involved.

The situation at Gregs and Pius is a joke.
On Pius first. If Pius are unable to competitively field their 1st XV in Division 1 Opens 1, then it wouldn't surprise me in the next few years if they are relegated to Division 2. You can't have the best team at one school playing the second best team at another. I don't see this being at all healthy for the ISA. A combined schools comp would alleviate pressure from Pius to perform out of their depth.

As for Gregs, this is an ongoing problem that the ISA has avoided for sometime. Gregs has been found to be fielding players in their incorrect age group. Last year, I was shocked that there were fifteen year olds playing in the 14Bs match, and that they played in the 15As (mind you, these boys probably weighed twice as much then their younger counterparts). This really grinds my gears that this has yet to be addressed.

As for this rounds games:
Gregs over Pats by 8
Stannies over Oakhill by 3
Auggies over Kinross by 10+