Is Link's calculated approach hindering Coopers development?

[O_fer_awesome]

I am amazed that he has been able to be make it to this level of rugby without being able to tackle

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Has he had a bad shoulder injury before? Quite often they are on teh back of tackling (ask Jonny) and the player (especially a young one) maybe a bit more careful about going into contact.

I still think he's a League Player playing Union, but league guys can't afford to miss tackles either. So maybe he's just doing his best to reduce his value to both codes?

dunno, it's a strange one. you can't doubt his heart to the wallabies (who picks a fight with Richie?), but it seems you can doubt his heart to defence.

 

[Red Bull]

G'day Boys, some of you may remember me from the early days of the Yellow Scarf forum etc, some may not. To Noddy, sorry....RugbyReg, Lee Grant, Lindommer, etc.....how's it going fellas?

As many of you have already touched upon, I reckon the reasons Cooper is being hidden is due heavily to the fact that the Reds want him free and available to spark the counter attack that is available following any quick turnovers. Given that, thus far in 2011, the quick turnovers are not really happening for the Reds nearly as much as last season (another issue altogether), it just appears QC (Quade Cooper) is being hidden purely because of his obvious defensive inadequacies.

Sure...in a perfect world, you'd want your 10 to be brilliant at everything including defense, but there have been some brilliant backs who couldn't tackle......D.I. Campese, Andrew Mehrtens, etc, so if Cooper plays to his strengths and does that very well, we (whether that's Reds or Wallabies) have to just adapt, cos he's too gifted with talent to leave out, I reckon.

 

[cyclopath]

G'day Boys, some of you may remember me from the early days of the Yellow Scarf forum etc, some may not. To Noddy, sorry....RugbyReg, Lee Grant, Lindommer, etc.....how's it going fellas?

As many of you have already touched upon, I reckon the reasons Cooper is being hidden is due heavily to the fact that the Reds want him free and available to spark the counter attack that is available following any quick turnovers. Given that, thus far in 2011, the quick turnovers are not really happening for the Reds nearly as much as last season (another issue altogether), it just appears QC (Quade Cooper) is being hidden purely because of his obvious defensive inadequacies.

Sure...in a perfect world, you'd want your 10 to be brilliant at everything including defense, but there have been some brilliant backs who couldn't tackle......D.I. Campese, Andrew Mehrtens, etc, so if Cooper plays to his strengths and does that very well, we (whether that's Reds or Wallabies) have to just adapt, cos he's too gifted with talent to leave out, I reckon.

My God, a blast from the past. Welcome back, RB.
Campo tackled much better than Cooper, especially towards the latter stages of his career. But he was never a strong defender.
Cooper struggles with back foot ball, as would any 10, but he struggles more. Couple that with the workload required in that situation to defend, he is a problem. Barnes is much better. Front foot game? Gotta have him there, as he can cut teams up. Maybe we'll see horses for courses.

 

[daz]

Dan Carter and Johnny Wilkinson do more than carry their defensive workload

Nailed it.

What I love about the two player's mentioned is how complete they are. They can direct traffic, set-up field position and pull a bit of magic out of the bag of tricks where needed. What they also do is get their hands dirty. I think Wilko may even out tackle Carter (no stats to back that up, just a hunch).

As much as I hate what Wilko has done to the Wobs over the years, by God I love watching him carry out a near perfect execution of tackling at speed, either front on or from an angle. He knows what QC (Quade Cooper) does not; it is no good pin-pointing a kick into touch or pulling out a huge pass into space if the next time the opposition attacks, you just let them run through you.

Sometimes the things QC (Quade Cooper) can do simply blow me away. Sheer magic.

But, that is countered by the things he does not do. At the moment the question is: Do his liabilities out-weigh his positives?

In a RWC tournament at least, I think he will be targeted to the point where he will have runners coming at him all day long. We saw that at the EOYT and he wasn't great.

I agree with Bullrush; no heart or commitment = No chance.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

QC (Quade Cooper) on attack makes us much, much more dangerous and better than any 10 in the country right now. The question is whether or not the defence will either get better or not outweigh the attack. Barnes along side him seemed to help in the latter stages of the tour. Berrick is also an option at 10, but I don't think we'd get the same output in attack with him. He'd be great at steering the team around the park and closing out a tight game though.

 

[Bullrush]

I think you guys are over-rating QC (Quade Cooper).

His international season was pretty average last year - I don't think he hardly got a mention in MOTM honors on the EOYT for any of the games - and now everyone knows what he brings to the table (and what he doesn't bring) teams will shut him down.

It's been suggested that he really needs front-foot ball to spark the attack but the Wallaby forward pack will struggle to give him that. Apart from a fit TPN and Pocock, the Wallaby forwards really don't show the aggression and dominance that QC (Quade Cooper) will need. Maybe an in-form and fit Elsom can be added to that list.

So....if the forwards are getting smashed or even if they are simply gaining parity up-front, does Cooper's attack still out-weigh his defense enough to warrant the run-on 10 jersey??

 

[Moses]

Beale had the same problems and link did the same. Never worked. Only way Cooper will get better is to work at it. Link needs to do something as it doesn't help the team at all

I'd argue it did work as Kurtley is now a bloody good defender who more than holds his own on missed tackle stats, not to mention makes try saving tackles in most games for the Tahs and the Wallabies.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I think you guys are over-rating QC (Quade Cooper).

His international season was pretty average last year - I don't think he hardly got a mention in MOTM honors on the EOYT for any of the games - and now everyone knows what he brings to the table (and what he doesn't bring) teams will shut him down.

It's been suggested that he really needs front-foot ball to spark the attack but the Wallaby forward pack will struggle to give him that. Apart from a fit TPN and Pocock, the Wallaby forwards really don't show the aggression and dominance that QC (Quade Cooper) will need. Maybe an in-form and fit Elsom can be added to that list.

So....if the forwards are getting smashed or even if they are simply gaining parity up-front, does Cooper's attack still out-weigh his defense enough to warrant the run-on 10 jersey??

Whilst I understand your point, in the one game where we beat the AB's last year, QC (Quade Cooper) was heavily involved in three of the four tries. The flat passes he delivered to AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and KB (Kurtley Beale) in two of those tries I just do not see most 10's in world rugby delivering. He is capable of igniting our attack in a way that most other 10's frankly just don't have the ability to do. Let's see how the Reds do for the rest of the Super rugby series before making a determination about his continued suitability at 5/8.

Having Dan Carter (for instance), the great all round player that he is, would be great, but last time I checked he played for that other team.

 

[daz]

So....if the forwards are getting smashed or even if they are simply gaining parity up-front, does Cooper's attack still out-weigh his defense enough to warrant the run-on 10 jersey??

The eternal question.

QC (Quade Cooper) needs space, runners and the opposition on the back foot (usually via quick ball from the breakdown) to be truly magical. When your possesion percentage is lower than the opposition, you are spending more time in defense. The problem with QC (Quade Cooper) is that when playing in defense, the Wobs are playing with 14 men.

I can't imagine Link and Deans have not had a chat about QC (Quade Cooper) and his role in the Reds leading into the RWC.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

If we are getting smashed in the forwards, then he's not the right guy. But who's fault is that exactly? Perhaps the pack shouldn't be getting their arses handed to them? You don't win too many games of footy without a decent amount of ball.

 

[daz]

Be interesting to think about how QC (Quade Cooper) would go in a team that has a decent pack....say, the Kiwis or Saffas. Or even the bloody Poms....

 

[I like to watch]

The eternal question.

QC (Quade Cooper) needs space, runners and the opposition on the back foot (usually via quick ball from the breakdown) to be truly magical. When your possesion percentage is lower than the opposition, you are spending more time in defense. The problem with QC (Quade Cooper) is that when playing in defense, the Wobs are playing with 14 men.
It's actually worse than having 14 men, cos it is human nature to assume the jumper next to you will do his job.If he wasn't there at all then the defensive line would adjust.
It is undeniable that QC (Quade Cooper) is the best attacking 10, but this is not NFL he can't be replaced every time the others have the footie.
It is no secret he is a muppet in defence. No defensive pattern can hide someone so shamelessly pathetic at tackling.
Can we win the RWC with him? NO CHANCE
can we win without him? maybe.
Should have signed a long term contract QC (Quade Cooper)!


I can't imagine Link and Deans have not had a chat about QC (Quade Cooper) and his role in the Reds leading into the RWC.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Be interesting to think about how QC (Quade Cooper) would go in a team that has a decent pack....say, the Kiwis or Saffas. Or even the bloody Poms....

Behind any of those packs he would carve up.

 

[Bullrush]

Whilst I understand your point, in the one game where we beat the AB's last year, QC (Quade Cooper) was heavily involved in three of the four tries. The flat passes he delivered to AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and KB (Kurtley Beale) in two of those tries I just do not see most 10's in world rugby delivering. He is capable of igniting our attack in a way that most other 10's frankly just don't have the ability to do. Let's see how the Reds do for the rest of the Super rugby series before making a determination about his continued suitability at 5/8.

Having Dan Carter (for instance), the great all round player that he is, would be great, but last time I checked he played for that other team.

The problem TBH, is that there were about 6 games after this where QC (Quade Cooper) hardly featured at all in this sites own MOTM ratings.

You could argue that his defense was a big factor in them almost losing that game - as it was when they faced up to the Poms. By the time they got to Italy, he was running all the way out to the wing every time the opposition got the ball.

And I still think his attack is over-rated. The Super season so far is proving that a lot of teams know how to nullify his strengths both from a team perspective and one-on-one. If Super coaches can work it out...you better believe NZ/SA/ENG/FRA will as well.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

If he does get found out and isn't as effective, I would imagine come test time you will see Barnes in the starting XV at 10. Deans has shown that he will drop guys who aren't performing, even if it does take longer than we would like. At the moment, he's in for mine, but let form be the guide. We have a pretty good idea who can do what and where across the playing group now, it's just a case of putting the right guys in the right positions when the serious stuff starts at the end of the year.

 

[Reddy!]

Berrick is also an option at 10, but I don't think we'd get the same output in attack with him. He'd be great at steering the team around the park and closing out a tight game though.

Quade has already proved twice so far this season that he can close out a tight game.

 

[Reddy!]

The problem TBH, is that there were about 6 games after this where QC (Quade Cooper) hardly featured at all in this sites own MOTM ratings.

Since when do you have to get MOTM every game to become a valuable player in a team?

 

[Bullrush]

Since when do you have to get MOTM every game to become a valuable player in a team?

He doesn't have to win it every game....but he hardly rated AT ALL....not 2nd or 3rd in most people's reckonings the whole tour.

 

[I like to watch]

Bullrush, what about the game he missed 9 of 11 tackles, did you not rate him in that game?
The way he fell of Pat McCabe last week should disqualify him from selection in any semi pro team.
No way can he be selected in Robbie's team