Ireland v Wallabies - Sunday 1 Dec, 2:10 AEDT

[Strewthcobber]

Game stats for lineouts.

Ireland 23 lineouts with 3 lost, 87%;

Australia 9 lineout with no losses, 100%.

Our lineout was fine and we did compete on Ireland's throw. I recall Wilson winning one at the No 2 spot and may have been more. If not, then one or two must have been won further back.

I think the one lineout Wislon took was ruled a mystery knock-on against him

Rugbypass gave 5 to Frost, 4 to Williams and 1 to Valteni - although that may only be the ones on our throw

 

[Wilson]

For me thats the hard thing - if we get rid of skelton to make our lineout a weapon, then yeh you are right we didn't use it. However the maul is a key lineout weapon and its better with him there (as long as we win it). So i guess the question is, how much worse is the lineout success rate with skelton VS how much worse is the subsequent platform (attack and defensive mauls) WITHOUT him.

I have a feeling the answer might be Skelton and Leota on the bench, to both come on around the 60 minute mark. Assuming Leota comes back fit and firing this year I think he's a direct upgrade of Gleeson in that same role while offering the lineout prowess to cover Skelton and emergency cover of the locks. There's also the possibility of Charlie Cale, Liam Wright or Seru Uru pushing Gleeson for that spot, but none are as good at the hard carry impact role that Schmidt has Gleeson in, so it would probably require a rethink there.

It might be a different story if Skelton was in Australia or just generally more available to the side, but with the limited time that get with him it's going to be hard to work him into a starting role with all the balancing required at lineout time.

 

[Wilson]

I think the one lineout Wislon took was ruled a mystery knock-on against him

Rugbypass gave 5 to Frost, 4 to Williams and 1 to Valteni - although that may only be the ones on our throw

Autumn nations series site does credit us with one steal, but they don't do per player stats

 

[Strewthcobber]

I went back and had a look at some of Lolesio's kicks - someone on Reddit put up the times - and what I really noticed was just how bad McDermott's passing was.

Lolesio also has distance issues off marks etc, but his halfback is not helping things. There were bounce passes. There were passes to the wrong side. The midfield bomb that went nowhere around 65mins came after three shocking passes in a row. Lolesio had to jump to catch the ball above his head and turn his whole body to kick it, under pressure

 

[Derpus]

I question the accuracy of these stats but I do find this interesting:

Ireland carried a lot but our carries were much more effective when we could actually hang on to the ball. I feel like we fell into forcing low percentage plays in the second half when we finally got an opportunity to alleviate pressure.

 

[Pfitzy]

I think the one lineout Wislon took was ruled a mystery knock-on against him

I had to look at that a couple of times: it looks like he knocks it from his left hand back into his right hand, it goes to deck, and that's when the ref thinks it went forward.

Roll the dice.

 

[Proud Pig]

In my opinion our best back row is undoubtably Valetini, McReight and Wilson. The problem with them is none of them are primary jumpers in the lineout, Valetini and Wilson are decent secondary surprise options but not your standard go to. If you play Skelton as well then you only have one primary reliable jumper and it is much easier to interrupt clean ball when you only need to cover one primary jumper. Also, what we gain by Skelton's superior mauling capabilities we lose by not getting clean ball to use the attacking maul as readily and the opposition are less likely to go to an attacking maul when you have a first-class maul destroyer like Skelton on the field. His own presence almost negates his own influence.

 

[Dctarget]

McReight:
- won five turnovers
- try saving tackle
- game leading 21 tackles
- made a game leading four tackle busts too
- passed four times too

The King is dead, long live the King!

 

[cyclopath]

In my opinion our best back row is undoubtably Valetini, McReight and Wilson. The problem with them is none of them are primary jumpers in the lineout, Valetini and Wilson are decent secondary surprise options but not your standard go to. If you play Skelton as well then you only have one primary reliable jumper and it is much easier to interrupt clean ball when you only need to cover one primary jumper. Also, what we gain by Skelton's superior mauling capabilities we lose by not getting clean ball to use the attacking maul as readily and the opposition are less likely to go to an attacking maul when you have a first-class maul destroyer like Skelton on the field. His own presence almost negates his own influence.

I still don't accept that a lineout cannot be made to work, if the coach wants Skelton on there for his obvious attributes. His ability in the maul, both in attack and defence cannot be overlooked. A weak maul on either side of the ledger will get reamed at the better levels. It yields points, and cards. La Rochelle have managed pretty well doing it. Watch highlights of the final between them and Leinster a year back. Sure it's a challenge, but I doubt the Wallabies coach would not want to look at him, if available and willing. We will see.

 

[Pfitzy]

In my opinion our best back row is undoubtably Valetini, McReight and Wilson. The problem with them is none of them are primary jumpers in the lineout, Valetini and Wilson are decent secondary surprise options but not your standard go to in a lineout that just clocked 100% success and stole 3 opposition throws

I don't think this is the "gotcha" you had planned, chief...

 

[Pfitzy]

I still don't accept that a lineout cannot be made to work

Forward packs are about balance and trade-offs. No exceptions, ever.

The question is whether you can bend the game to your will and make your strengths better than the other side.

 

[Proud Pig]

I don't think this is the "gotcha" you had planned, chief...

I think you have just argued my point for me. We did get 100% success rate against Ireland where Skelton did not play so we had 2 primary jumpers on the field at all times and not just one. I was not dismissing the performance of Valetini or Wilson at all.

 

[Pfitzy]

I think you have just argued my point for me. We did get 100% success rate against Ireland where Skelton did not play so we had 2 primary jumpers on the field at all times and not just one. I was not dismissing the performance of Valetini or Wilson at all.

I think your argument in general is too reductive.

 

[Joe Blow]

Intersting Joe Schmidt indicated in his press conference he felt we should have run it back more.

Well we cannot kick, so it was the only way we could have got up the other end.

 

[Sully]

I think the biggest problem with Skelton is lack of time with the team. He is such a different player than the other locks that the other forwards have to adjust to compensate, and a week in camp is just not enough to do that. the late injury to Faesler and William's illness and Tizzano at openside didn't help.

 

[cyclopath]

I think the biggest problem with Skelton is lack of time with the team. He is such a different player than the other locks that the other forwards have to adjust to compensate, and a week in camp is just not enough to do that. the late injury to Faesler and William's illness and Tizzano at openside didn't help.

Fair point. Having been around the squad this tour, maybe it will be an easier transition for home Tests next year, if he is in the mix.

 

[rod skellet]

Lolesio can kick a penalty from 48m out that easily goes 55m. He can generate the speed to get better distance - either with a drop punt or conventional punt. I think it's a confidence issue - he does not want to miss touch, and aims conservatively with penalty kicks for touch and kicks in general play. I completely agree it's a problem but I reckon he can, and should do much better.

Agreed Cyclopath

 

[TSR]

I know it’s only a little thing, but the lineout where Valetini comes through the line because the throw is over the 15 and picks of the throw to the half is the kind of game smarts we haven’t seen enough of over the last 15 yrs or so.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I know it’s only a little thing, but the lineout where Valetini comes through the line because the throw is over the 15 and picks of the throw to the half is the kind of game smarts we haven’t seen enough of over the last 15 yrs or so.

Frost went close on a couple of occasions too, so looks like a coaching thing.

 

[Joe Blow]

Frost went close on a couple of occasions too, so looks like a coaching thing.

Frost is really coming good. A few extra pounds of muscle in the off season and he will be a beast next year.