Ireland v Australia, Dublin, 16 Nov 2013

[barbarian]

Sorry, you missed the point. The scrum was destroyed verse England then satisfactory against Italy. The flankers staying attached had more impact than Timanis shove. He is not the scrum saviour, just a very lazy boy.

Despite being so lazy, he managed to lead the team in runs on the weekend, and come high up in the tackle rankings too. And he only played 60 minutes.

I am not a huge Timani fan either, but he was OK on Saturday.
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[emuarse]

Anyone noticed how much fitter Robinson looks?

I actually thought he looked like he had been on the pies.

His overweight fat puppy look was definitely more accentuated

 

[BDA]

Despite being so lazy, he managed to lead the team in runs on the weekend, and come high up in the tackle rankings too. And he only played 60 minutes.

I am not a huge Timani fan either, but he was OK on Saturday.
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Guys like Timani and Palu seem to be very easy targets for people of this board to call them lazy, etc. People expect to see them barging their way through the opposition for 80 minutes. Truth is Palu does more work than most of our forwards and Timani's work rate is generally ok (very poor against England but better on the weekend).

From my point of view, it's not Timani's work rate that is his problem, and he's one of the few bloke in gold that makes a lot of dominant tackles. It more his deficiencies with ball in hand. He needs to learn how to use his size better to get the team over the advantage line. That's something he can work on.

I doubt he has a great future with the wallabies in any event.

 

[Braveheart81]

I don't think Timani was great by any stretch of the imagination but I don't think he was awful either.

He is much maligned by many people on this forum (same with Palu) and as such seems to be held to a higher standard than many of our other players.

Mowen and Horwill seem to scrape through with average games to little criticism whilst a similar performance from Timani will lead to him being widely criticised.

Horwill is meant to be our premier lock and he is struggling big time. Up until two games ago he was the Wallaby captain. It should be a serious concern that in 80 metres he made 7 runs for 13 metres. In every recent test, his physical impact is non existant.

 

[Ash]

I don't think Timani was great by any stretch of the imagination but I don't think he was awful either.

He is much maligned by many people on this forum (same with Palu) and as such seems to be held to a higher standard than many of our other players.

Mowen and Horwill seem to scrape through with average games to little criticism whilst a similar performance from Timani will lead to him being widely criticised.

Horwill is meant to be our premier lock and he is struggling big time. Up until two games ago he was the Wallaby captain. It should be a serious concern that in 80 metres he made 7 runs for 13 metres. In every recent test, his physical impact is non existant.

I'm normally Timani's biggest critic, but he was improved vs Italy.

Timani still had the usual issues. His ruck technique is woeful as he just flops or dives in with no effort to keep his feet, and he spends plenty of time walking in backplay. Some of his play with and around the ball was lazy, like after Horwill's turnover, for example.

However, Timani's workrate when he was close in was better, he carried more, and he did get through contact a few times over the advantage line instead of falling over as soon as he made contact. He was less lazy in some of his play, although times when Timani should be working harder (e.g. to secure turnover ball) he was a little lazy still.

I still don't think Timani's a starting international level player due to his poor ruck technique, his ball handling is poor, his lineout jumping is poor, and he doesn't seem to have the stamina to drag his frame through a game of rugby without walking a lot of the time. Some of these things I am sure could be fixed by a provincial coach working him hard. Timani doesn't need a huge increase in stamina, but rather the ability to put in a big effort, and knowing when to do so (e.g. Samo).

Timani's benefits are well known - good scrummaging lock, hits very hard on defence when he can line people up.

But, I think some of the criticism from this game is a little harsh. His performance was a definite improvement on last week, where Timani was just shocking.

Stats can be misleading, but comparing Timani to Horwill last game:

Timani had:
3 tackles with 1 miss
8 runs for 32m
Rucks can be misleading as only the first in is recorded, but Timani was first in a 9 occaisons
1 penalty conceded, 1 turnover conceded
57 minutes played

Horwill had:
11 tackles with no misses
7 runs for 13m
First in to rucks on 7 occasions
1 penalty conceded, 1 turnover conceded
80 minutes played
1 lineout take
1 pilfer that I can recall

Overall, I would've put Horwill's game slightly ahead of Timani's as I still get frustrated by Timani's poor ruck technique. It wasn't a great showing by either lock to be frank, but it was an improvement from the previous week(s).

I would continue to select Horwill ahead of Timani even with Horwill being out of form due to Timani's limitations. I would've given Douglas a(nother) go ahead of both by now, though.

 

[Bowside]

Ahhh the old Waratah flat-track bully victim complex comes out.

Timani isn't playing any better than Horwill. And he's quitting Australian rugby at the end of the season as well.

He scrums well, and is effective around the park for all of 20 minutes a test. Yet we are so short of good locks at the moment that he's getting caps regardless.

 

[Richo]

If Horwill hadn't been rubbish all season (and Douglas to a lesser extent), I'm not sure Timani would even be playing.

As for this:

Ahhh the old Waratah flat-track bully victim complex comes out.

Top-notch analysis.

 

[Highlander35]

Scotland are further back, so some players like Will, Moore and Hooper especially should then get a rest.

Underestimate at your peril.

 

[Braveheart81]

Ahhh the old Waratah flat-track bully victim complex comes out.

Timani isn't playing any better than Horwill. And he's quitting Australian rugby at the end of the season as well.

He scrums well, and is effective around the park for all of 20 minutes a test. Yet we are so short of good locks at the moment that he's getting caps regardless.

I disagree with the first bit.

I agree with the second bit which is why I think the criticism levelled at Timani is over the top. If Timani and Horwill put in a similar performance, Timani cops far more criticism than Horwill. The reverse should apply. We should be expecting much more out of Horwill.

I don't think Australian rugby will really miss Timani once he has left for France but I don't think he's been terrible as a Wallaby.

We are struggling at lock with Simmons the only one playing well right now. It has taken him 30 test matches to get himself to that position.

I want to see Douglas get another crack and I hope that Carter, Pyle and Fardy are used at lock next year as well (assuming that we have more options at 6 with returning players).

 

[scaraby]

I disagree with the first bit.

I agree with the second bit which is why I think the criticism levelled at Timani is over the top. If Timani and Horwill put in a similar performance, Timani cops far more criticism than Horwill. The reverse should apply. We should be expecting much more out of Horwill.

I don't think Australian rugby will really miss Timani once he has left for France but I don't think he's been terrible as a Wallaby.

We are struggling at lock with Simmons the only one playing well right now. It has taken him 30 test matches to get himself to that position.

I want to see Douglas get another crack and I hope that Carter, Pyle and Fardy are used at lock next year as well (assuming that we have more options at 6 with returning players).

agree
those stats prove 1 thing and that is that Douglas, Simmons and Fardy should be the locks this weekend. Timani's fabled hitting the ball up is wrong he is either way too low and nose dives or way to high and flat footed and gets pulled up within a metre but on the weekend Horwill was worse.
Wholesale changes to the backline?.drop Cooper?Genia? To'omua???? Folau????????...did Folau look tired to anyone..? They are finally getting some combinations together... can we leave them where they are...

 

[Ignoto]

Missing the point, Ewen (and Robbie) clearly value Timani's shove at scrum time. Horwill packs on the LH side even with Simmons.

It's interesting that Link, Blades and Deans all valued Timani's value for the scrum and didn't care so much about his lack of value around the park and at lineouts. However, all three have picked the likes of Alexander and Slipper not for their value in the scrum but for their work around the park.

Weird how they pick a guy solely for one area of the game ie the scrums and then pick completely different for props.

 

[Braveheart81]

Wholesale changes to the backline?.drop Cooper?Genia? To'omua???? Folau????????.did Folau look tired to anyone..? They are finally getting some combinations together. can we leave them where they are.

I thought Folau was really good against Italy. He is becoming our wide playmaker in many ways. His ability to get on the outside of the defender and then either step back inside them or just beat them in contact is impressive. He also made some good passes in those situations to put other players away.

Against England he clearly should have passed a few times but instead got tackled but he is still learning.

As his decision making improves, he will just get better and better. He has such an advantage from a physical perspective in terms of his size, speed and agility that with some better decision making he will be an incredible asset in attack.

His defensive positioning still needs to improve but outside of picking AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at fullback, we probably don't have any better defensive fullbacks currently.

 

[Slim 293]

Those ruck stats also show that the Wallabies got quick ball 3/9 times Timani was first into the ruck.........

 

[scaraby]

Those ruck stats also show that the Wallabies got quick ball 3/9 times Timani was first into the ruck...

and slow ball 6 times???

 

[scaraby]

Those ruck stats also show that the Wallabies got quick ball 3/9 times Timani was first into the ruck...

you know what trying not to be hard on him but whats with the standing starts aand body height...could be the difference between 60 tests and bye bye and no ones coached it out of him...you can't teach speed but you can teach that........

 

[Braveheart81]

and slow ball 6 times???

The stats listed normal 5 times and slow ball once.

Based solely on those stats, his ratio of getting quick ball was better than anyone else. As was getting to 9 rucks first.

you know what trying not to be hard on him but whats with the standing starts aand body height.could be the difference between 60 tests and bye bye and no ones coached it out of him.you can't teach speed but you can teach that....

I didn't agree with some of Bob Dwyer's article today, but this was one thing he pointed out that there doesn't seem to be a lot of direction or certainty coming from Genia and Cooper in relation to what is happening and the timing.

Unless it is incredibly telegraphed, most of our forward runners are receiving the ball from a standing start because they don't seem to know what is happening or when they need to be hitting the line.

This is something that our team needs to improve dramatically. Muplitple players in motion seems the best way to unlock strong defences.

 

[Bowside]

I agree with the second bit which is why I think the criticism levelled at Timani is over the top. If Timani and Horwill put in a similar performance, Timani cops far more criticism than Horwill. The reverse should apply. We should be expecting much more out of Horwill.

He doesn't but.

Everyones talking about how shit Horwill is playing. He's been stripped of the captaincy, and every mistake he makes is replayed and focused on. We do expect more from Horwill.

But beyond a couple of posters here no one really seems to care that a guy with every physical attribute to be successful in his position is only playing well for at most a quarter of the game...

 

[I like to watch]

I wouldn't rave about how either of them are playing.
It seems to me,most of the comments,both positive and negative,are in correlation with each poster's super club allegiances.

 

[scaraby]

I wouldn't rave about how either of them are playing.
It seems to me,most of the comments,both positive and negative,are in correlation with each poster's super club allegiances.

Not sure whether you are trolling or just trying to make yourself sound big and important....in either case just shushh and say something intelligent and without being so negative for once...

 

[Richo]

I wouldn't rave about how either of them are playing.
It seems to me,most of the comments,both positive and negative,are in correlation with each poster's super club allegiances.

That's part of it. It's also that most people (myself included) are just not good at recognising or evaluating much that happens outside things like pilfers, big hits, loads of tackles, or line breaks. Stuff like first to rucks or second, or defensive positioning, and so on just doesn't get noticed much.