Ireland v Australia, Dublin, 16 Nov 2013

[Quick Hands]

The Cardiff Arms Park surface looked pretty miserable on Sunday Morning, almost like a regional Australian surface from the mid 80's, not the usual lush verdant surface I am accustomed to seeing from that part of the world.

The crowd stays dry, but the grass can't grow.

 

[BPC]

No, simply putting things in context.

I was actually thinking of your comment "Samoans make too many basic errors to succeed at test level" and their recent record against Australia.

 

[FilthRugby]

I imagine everyone is going to bag me for saying this, but I honestly think Ben Alexander hasn't been as bad as some people have made out.

Yes he has been lazy around areas on the field, but I think his scrummaging has improved. Alexander being ranked lower than Genia for the game against England was ridiculous. If he got his arse into gear, he'd be a good tight-head.

A bit more of this please!

 

[Forcefield]

If he got his arse into gear, he'd be a good tight-head.

He has got his arse in gear.... reverse.

 

[Viking]

I imagine everyone is going to bag me for saying this, but I honestly think Ben Alexander hasn't been as bad as some people have made out.

Yes he has been lazy around areas on the field, but I think his scrummaging has improved. Alexander being ranked lower than Genia for the game against England was ridiculous. If he got his arse into gear, he'd be a good tight-head.

A bit more of this please!

I guess you could say the same about Kepu or Slipper. The thing that gets me with Alexander is he has a shit load of caps and he has never performed consistently well for the wallabies but continuously gets picked.

Sure he has experience. But what else does he bring? I have always thought he was a poor scrummager and seagulls on the wing. Now he is an okay scrummager and gets around the park at bit more. He is okay but okay isnt good enough!

 

[Tomikin]

We did well against Italy after the bench came on, so we can conclude:

• Team unchanged
• Absolutely destroyed by Ireland

Team I hope for:

Robinson, Moore, Kepu, Simmons, Fardy, Mowen, Gill, McCalman, White, To'omua, Tomane, Lealiifano, Kuridrani, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Folau
Fainga'a, Slipper, Alexander, Timani, Hooper, Genia, Cooper, Cummins

I dont believe you thought we went alright after the bench came on, Kepu's very first scrum we got owned. Your Dropping Cummins ? I like your second row and I think we need to see what To'omua and Leo can do together but maybe Leo at 10 To'omua at 12 and maybe in the Scottish game..

 

[RoffsChoice]

I dont believe you thought we went alright after the bench came on, Kepu's very first scrum we got owned. Your Dropping Cummins ? I like your second row and I think we need to see what To'omua and Leo can do together but maybe Leo at 10 To'omua at 12 and maybe in the Scottish game..

If you look back over the comments I've said it was for a specific game plan, not the team I would pick for a different plan.

I like the Lilo at 10 idea for the expansive style, but right now Cooper has that spot locked in.

 

[Bardon]

And yet Samoa could only kick 3 penalty goals and never really looked like scoring a try.

A touch of the blarney to secure underdog status.

No the first part is just an honest assessment. A better team than that Samoa team (including their full strength side) would have scored tries from the breaks they made.

The 2nd part is just an observation on Irish fans. Most are OK with losing as long as we gave it a go. These are the same people who won't have watched the Italy game and just assume you guys are amazing because you put 50 points on Italy.

I'm sure the other Irish guys on here will back me up when I say that there just isn't that expectation for the team to win the same as you get in England, Aus, NZ or SA. The prevalent attitude is still one of giving it a good go and if you don't win at least you tried.

It's not an attitude that I particularly like as I believe if we want to be as good as those teams on a regular basis then our team should be judged by the same standards. It's not some sort of race to secure underdog status it's just that Irish people have lower expectations for their Rugby teams (and sporting teams in general).

 

[BDA]

4 tackle attempts - 3 completed. (Dominant 0 in my assessment)
8 runs - 7 in tight for total of 32m (2nd only to Hooper in tight and metres per run in tight was beaten by Hooper and Simmons proving that effectiveness is not a factor of weight)
9 Ruck involvements

http://www.rugbystats.com.au/matches/rugby/match25459.html
This brings a total of 21 involvements. Do people regard this as a high workrate?

32 Metres in tight with ball in hand, even though it is the second best in the side, is woeful IMO.

I have to say I went looking for these stats purely to support my opinion that Timani just doesn't do anything to warrant selection. I still hold that view as IMO he just doesn't fill the core skills required from a 2nd row and his effectiveness at what he has been selected for is a myth, but there can be no doubt that he is the best (excepting Moore) of a very bad lot. What I did not expect is the paltry workrate of other forwards. In particular Alexander and Slipper. Both are selected purportedly for their mobility, well where is the evidence of this? Castrogiovanni - an old pensioner and the archetype of the European style prop who can actually perform his core duties beat them on all of these points.

Im not sure those stats assist your argument that much. Timani had equal most runs, and hit more rucks and mauls than any other players, despite the fact that he played less minutes than the likes of Hooper and Moore (our best forwards). If anything i'd say the stats support my view that timani is not as lazy as some on this site suggest he is. Those stats definitely suggest that he has to work on his defensive work rate, but given that we are in desperate need of forwards who can get us over the advantage line i probably wouldn't drop him first. Horwill had 7 runs for 13 metres. That's shocking. Simmons made more tackles and almost twice as many metres per run . Looking at those stats id probably replace Horwill with Simmons and bring Fardy or McCalman in at 6.

I don't want to make it sound like im a big Timani fan because im not. I called for him to be dropped after the England game, but i remember watching the italy game and thinking his involvement was pretty good on attack. I certainly dont think he's any worse than the rest of the pack right now.

 

[BDA]

I cant see us winning this game. I'm yet to see us thrive under pressure. Next year cant come soon enough

 

[Don]

@Bardon was just reading through forums on the web, before the match against Australia this weekend and came across your comment. Id have to agree we as Irish tend to believe that we probably wont beat the likes of Australia, New Zealand or South Africa. And to be honest Im guilty of having that mindset as well.

I often think as sure we will have a go and see if we can beat them, but chances are slim we will win.
Just a lack of faith we have in our sporting teams I guess, we could probably do with a change in attitude

 

[BabyBlueElephant]

No the first part is just an honest assessment. A better team than that Samoa team (including their full strength side) would have scored tries from the breaks they made.

The 2nd part is just an observation on Irish fans. Most are OK with losing as long as we gave it a go. These are the same people who won't have watched the Italy game and just assume you guys are amazing because you put 50 points on Italy.

I'm sure the other Irish guys on here will back me up when I say that there just isn't that expectation for the team to win the same as you get in England, Aus, NZ or SA. The prevalent attitude is still one of giving it a good go and if you don't win at least you tried.

It's not an attitude that I particularly like as I believe if we want to be as good as those teams on a regular basis then our team should be judged by the same standards. It's not some sort of race to secure underdog status it's just that Irish people have lower expectations for their Rugby teams (and sporting teams in general).

This is true, yet untrue. Rugby in Ireland has a mixed history. Internationally, bar a brief period between the late 70's and mid 80's, strictly speaking before the 2000's, very few stars or successes spring to mind. The sport of the rich outside of Munster, and little success has married together to make the sport both unpopular and unsuccessful until the professional era came around. Those born in the 70's or before seem to be stuck in this mindset.

Those born in the 80's or above, such as myself, only started to watch rugby in the 90's when the sport started going professional. Towards the end of the 90's and early 2000's, Irelands development as a team has in my opinion, been one of the biggest improvements in any sport. They're a solid tier one nation. I would liken it to Spain in football, very little history, but since football went pro they're two main teams Barcelona and Real Madrid have had academy's that churn out the talent that eventually feeds into the domestic team, much like Leinster and Munster who too both dominate the European game.

Anyway back to the point, those born later have seen an Irish team get increasingly better players, and more success, if not internationally at club level atleast. Ireland has won trophies pretty much every year either Internationally or domestically in club competitions in the 2000's. The younger one's have a huge sense of optimism, and under Joe Schmidt they should as if he gets Ireland playing like Leinster, Ireland will see an era that'd put their so called golden era to shame.

 

[Bairdy]

@Bardon was just reading through forums on the web, before the match against Australia this weekend and came across your comment. Id have to agree we as Irish tend to believe that we probably wont beat the likes of Australia, New Zealand or South Africa. And to be honest Im guilty of having that mindset as well.

I often think as sure we will have a go and see if we can beat them, but chances are slim we will win.
Just a lack of faith we have in our sporting teams I guess, we could probably do with a change in attitude

It's just like Ewen has been saying in the media this week; the Irish will be all jovial, and friendly, and hospitable, or, in the case of you, @Baron or @BabyBlueElephant, act humble!

Then bam, you knock us off on game day! It's not like a win against us or the Saffers is impossible; going back to 2009, the Irish and Australians are 1-1-1. And you only lost to the Saffers by 4 points last year!

Anyway......... I'm predicting the game to end up 20-24, to Australia.
Welcome to the forums by the way

 

[BabyBlueElephant]

It's just like Ewen has been saying in the media this week; the Irish will be all jovial, and friendly, and hospitable, or, in the case of you, @Baron or @BabyBlueElephant, act humble!

Then bam, you knock us off on game day! It's not like a win against us or the Saffers is impossible; going back to 2009, the Irish and Australians are 1-1-1. And you only lost to the Saffers by 4 points last year!

Anyway... I'm predicting the game to end up 20-24, to Australia.
Welcome to the forums by the way

Its a shame the current state of Australia and Irish rugby. I think the two are very similar. Rugby union is about the fourth most popular sport in each country. Both have patchy history's of success and underwhelming averageness. Both are struggling to keep players in the country thanks to the free spending French teams. I've always had a soft spot for Australia because of these. I hope in the game we see optimism for both nations, a high tempo game with attacking rugby as thats what both coaches are trying to stamp in. If both teams can do that hopefully it'll give decent spark for future games.

Lets hope for cracking game and dry conditions.

 

[BDA]

Its a shame the current state of Australia and Irish rugby. I think the two are very similar. Rugby union is about the fourth most popular sport in each country. Both have patchy history's of success and underwhelming averageness. Both are struggling to keep players in the country thanks to the free spending French teams. I've always had a soft spot for Australia because of these. I hope in the game we see optimism for both nations, a high tempo game with attacking rugby as thats what both coaches are trying to stamp in. If both teams can do that hopefully it'll give decent spark for future games.

Lets hope for cracking game and dry conditions.

Just curious what the three most popular sports are in Ireland. I've got Football and Gaelic Football, but I cant figure out the third. League? surely not.

Also nice post. It actually got me a little bit excited to see the game on the weekend

 

[Braveheart81]

Just curious what the three most popular sports are in Ireland. I've got Football and Gaelic Football, but I cant figure out the third. League? surely not.

Also nice post. It actually got me a little bit excited to see the game on the weekend

Hurling presumably.

 

[emuarse]

Just curious what the three most popular sports are in Ireland. I've got Football and Gaelic Football, but I cant figure out the third. League? surely not.

Also nice post. It actually got me a little bit excited to see the game on the weekend

Bilarney - they practice it everywhere, you know it, "a load of Bilarney"

 

[scaraby]

The Millennium stadium is a multi purpose arena. A rugby match one week, a Wales soccer game mid week then Song's of Praise the next week. They are constantly resurfacing the pitch meaning that it never knits properly to the surface underneath. The artificial pitch that Cardiff are using this year seems be a trial run for replacing the grass in the Millennium Stadium.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru...-plastic-pitch-time-2015-Rugby-World-Cup.html

Modern stadiums are great for spectators but very poor growing conditions for grass due to poor air circulation and reduced sun light. Look at the European soccer stadiums, as the stands have risen higher and higher, the quality of the pitches have declined. Most of them have to replace pitches all too regularly. AFAIK the ground staff at the San Siro have to use huge fans to try to replicate air flow as well as using lights and they still struggle to deliver a decent surface.

Looking at the Samoa game, two thirds of the Lansdowne pitch appears to be recently resurfaced in the last month or two.

Are you referring to the Samoan supporters here??

 

[FingalRaven]

Just curious what the three most popular sports are in Ireland. I've got Football and Gaelic Football, but I cant figure out the third. League? surely not.

Also nice post. It actually got me a little bit excited to see the game on the weekend

Depends on how you categorise Gaelic Games, many reports lump Gaelic Football, Hurling and handball under one cover heading of Gaelic Games. The GAA likes it that way or soccer might just pass them out as Ireland number one sport.

1. Gaelic Games
2. Soccer
3. Rugby(starting to make inroads into non traditional areas)
4. Cricket(mainly Northern Ireland and Dublin but growing)

 

[Blue]

Depends on how you categorise Gaelic Games, many reports lump Gaelic Football, Hurling and handball under one cover heading of Gaelic Games. The GAA likes it that way or soccer might just pass them out as Ireland number one sport.

1. Getting shitfaced
2. Gaelic Games
3. Getting arsefaced
4. Soccer
5. Going on the piss
6. Rugby(starting to make inroads into non traditional areas)
7. Getting drunk and fondling your relatives
8. Cricket(mainly Northern Ireland and Dublin but growing)
9. Share a Guinnes / Share a cousin nights

Fixed it s little for you.