Integrating players of different ability/experience levels.

[HairySwan]

Hi all,
I'm an u12s coach. I've had my team since u10s. That may sound like a long time, but we had unfinished business. We've always struggled for numbers. Where other teams have up to 10 reserves and unlimited interchange, we rarely get all 15 of my boys to the paddock (no reserves). We barely got the 10 for u10s or the 12 for u11s. As a consequence, I've got a core of superfit, superskilled players hardened by the demands of playing short every week for years. The ones who were new last year, I got up to scratch by the end of the year and they're now blossoming. Our brand new few, that came from a concerted recruitment effort, are, with one exception, well off the pace. Understandably, this has caused frustration and resentment among my hard core. I never intended to make little kids that intense about rugby, they seem to catch it off me like the flu. It's led to a couple of nasty bullying incidents, and it's threatening to derail our season before it even starts. I'm gutted, because the team was so close and so optimistic about how we finished last year. I'm trying everything I know to diffuse the tension and bond the team, but it seems the ability gap is so large that nothing can overcome it. I'm particularly interested to hear from others with similar experiences of massive ability gaps within teams. I'm talking 12 year olds who dominate rep footy as a running 5/8 with 12 year olds at literally u7s level.

Thanks

 

[Malcsy]

Hi mate, couple of points...

You are talking about Under 12s... not Under 16s... You need to mould these guys now. Forget winning trophies and crap like that, work on getting these guys to bond together and more importantly stay together. The rep pathway doesn't get serious till 15s, so if you have got kids who are potentially playing for careers they will have to be patient. And to be fair, at 12s, that isn't defined. John Eales didn't play rep rugby till 19. In my opinion, your main focus should be closing that gap. If some kids are bullying others, you should drop them. Just my opinion though...

 

[barbarian]

Bullying is the problem you need to tackle first and foremost. Rugby is only a game, and at under 12 level should be about the development of good team ethos and playing the game in the right spirit. I refereed a lot of junior footy in previous years and the thing I used to hate most was when an Under 10-12 team would warm up like they were the Wallabies, shouting at each other with complex set moves. They would always have an intense coach pacing the sideline, and a number of angry parents who would scream at the ref at every opportunity.

This is not to say winning and teaching advanced skills is a bad thing. You should aim to win everything obviously. But you need to make your 'core' players realise that the game is for everyone, and to be tolerant of those with a lower skill level. It is a lot easier said than done, but you sound like a smart and passionate coach.

 

[Lee Grant]

Not exactly to the point but when my lads were of that age many years ago, and even a few years younger, they had to play against over large Islander lads.

The sideline gossip then was that they didn't have birth certificates where they came from and that baptism certificates were used. Whether that was true or not the Islander lads were always going to be bigger than the others. I was the manager of our team and the parents agreed to forfeit a game to save a possible injury if the big boppers fell on top of their kids.

It was hard for the Islander lads too: all genial kids who made sure they passed the ball to a team mate when they could.

Does that problem prevail in junior rugby or do they have weigh-ins these days?

 

[HairySwan]

Agreed, but they aren't so easy to control. They watch the adults and the pros and want to copy them. I don't care about the result at all. I have to ask the score at the end of every game. One thing I have though is high standards at training and high standards for effort on Saturday. That's about moulding boys into men, if they get good at rugby along the way, cool.

 

[HairySwan]

@barbarian

Thanks mate, I've tried getting them to help me coach the other guys, and it goes well for about 5 minutes. They're not mature enough for that sort of thing. You're absolutely right about bullying being the problem, but I always thought rugby was the solution to bullying. Then again, I was always in graded teams and rep teams, so I don't have much experience here.

Cheers.

 

[HairySwan]

@LeeGrant
I grew up in Sydney playing for Gordon Juniors, so I have a fair bit of experience with very good very large Islander boys. Not as much of an issue up here on the sunny coast, but when it comes along I just say go LOW

 

[DPK]

@LeeGrant
I grew up in Sydney playing for Gordon Juniors, so I have a fair bit of experience with very good very large Islander boys. Not as much of an issue up here on the sunny coast, but when it comes along I just say go LOW

Pick a thigh and hit it!

 

[Torn Hammy]

HS, a few tips given by a guy who has coached juniors for 26 years.

Coach the team as if you were the Dad of the worst player in the team. The whole dynamic of the team will change for the better, and if you give that extra respect to the less competent players, so will the bullies. 90% of junior coaches are Dads of the best player.

Give the other parents lots of honest feedback about their kid but make it clear that all you want to hear from them is 'how can I help?'

Feign total disinterest in the score for kids under the age of 16.

Be honest with yourself and if you are no good or are not enjoying the coaching, quit.

 

[Bullrush]

One of my favorite quotes from a sports movie was in 'Remember the Titans' where the captain of the defence (Superman) tells one of the black kids that he's got a bad attitude. The black kid turns to him and says, "Attitude is a reflection of leadership."

As the 'leader' your attitude to both the new kids, their level of ability and their treatment from the older kids will ultimately shape not just how they welcome the new kids but maybe even how they deal with these situations for years to come.

Just my opinion anyway.....

 

[HairySwan]

@Torn Hammy, I'm far from quitting after a couple of bad weeks. If bullying is always the coaches fault, is it always the teacher's fault too? It happens despite your best intentions of creating a supportive environment. Part of the problem is today's kids. When these guys were u10s they were lovely kids, but now they all want to be the superstar. Personally, I didn't touch the ball in my first 6 games of rugby except for at the lineout and in the mauls, and I was happy. I thought it was because I was crap. In the seventh game I got it for some bizarre reason so I ran straight ahead as hard as I could, then turned around as soon as it looked like I was a sniff of losing it and put it in the hands of the halfback. I was afraid if I did anything else I'd screw up and lose the pill. I was there to help out my mates, not be a star. Soon after the coach asked if I was going for reps. I looked at him like he was mad.
-But I'm crap
-No you're not, you're a bloody good lock.
-But I've only touched the ball once all year.
-Yeah, and what a touch, we scored a try off that hit up.
What? I didn't even know what he meant. My deathly fear at screwing up and losing the thing looked to him like a deep commitment to providing my backs with good clean ball.
That would never happen with my kids. They would never be afraid of losing the ball or letting their mates down. Every one of them, from the best to the worst in ability, has come along with a nasty, selfish attitude. That is at the root of all the problems we're having, and it doesn't come from me I assure you. Once again though, footy should be one of the things that fixes that attitude. I'm trying to fix it, not walk away. For one thing, what kind of a message would it send for the coach to quit. They'll see it as a reflection on themselves, whatever I might say. For another, I'd be a pretty useless bloke if I quit something the first time it got tough. How many rugby blokes are going to be quitters by the time they've had to hang up the boots on doctor's orders.

 

[HairySwan]

Bullrush...You're absolutely right. Part of the problem is that by trying to bond them by getting the good kids to help mentor the new guys I bestowed a lot of leadership status on my best trainer. He's probs my 2nd best player, but he attacks footy with a professional attitude (always has). In previous years he coupled his intense attitude with a gracious humility towards his teammates. I thought, sweet, he'll be a big help with the new kids, I even had him captain the first trial. My previous captain isn't one of the stars, he was just the kid who showed leadership ability in his personal dealings with his mates. I got that whole thing wrong. My humble little worker has turned into a short-fused hormone grenade, and giving him the captaincy was the worst thing I could do. This whole thing started there, and I've been trying to reign it in ever since. So, good quote. You've basically made it clear to me how I screwed up in the first place to let this thing get started.

 

[HairySwan]

BTW, good session Tuesday. All it takes is a bit of creative thinking and planning ahead. Thanks to this website for nothing, I won't be seeking advice here again. The most this brains trust has for me is; it's your fault, quit. I was looking for advice from people who'd actually dealt with bullying head on, and had specific strategies to counter it. If you've been coaching for 26 years and never had bullying in your team, then you have and you just didn't notice. At least I care enough to not stand for even a whiff of it. To the friendly replies, thanks but your general responses just illustrated how context-specific each case of bullying is. I'm tackling this one in a completely counter-intuitive way, but it seems to be working on the specificities of our problems. I won't be checking this again, but feel free to get on and be a blowhard. It seems that's what this forum is for.

 

[Novocastrian]

Haha, epic ragequite there HS!

 

[barbarian]

Jeez, what a dummy spit.

You came onto a forum for rugby fans (not teachers, coaches or psychiatrists) and asked for some advice. If you had half a brain you would see tha no-one advised you to quit, it was only listed as a last resort by Torn Hammy if you weren't enjoying the coaching.

I initially thought you were a good bloke and comitted coach, now I will have to reconsider. I feel sorry for your kids if that's the way you treat people who have tried to give you honest advice on a difficult problem.

 

[blindsider]

im helping coach my old high school side.
having a teacher there helps, but getting the kids to listen and teach them things is really really hard. Some kids play SG Ball and others play for wicks or easts on weekends. then there are the guys who have never played before. It is hard.

 

[I like to watch]

Not exactly to the point but when my lads were of that age many years ago, and even a few years younger, they had to play against over large Islander lads.

The sideline gossip then was that they didn't have birth certificates where they came from and that baptism certificates were used. Whether that was true or not the Islander lads were always going to be bigger than the others. I was the manager of our team and the parents agreed to forfeit a game to save a possible injury if the big boppers fell on top of their kids.

It was hard for the Islander lads too: all genial kids who made sure they passed the ball to a team mate when they could.

Does that problem prevail in junior rugby or do they have weigh-ins these days?

Still prevalent Lee.
There are no weight based comps anywhere (Penrith trialled it a few years ago in their lower divisions in each age group in league)

 

[Torn Hammy]

Intriguing HS.

You present the problem of bullying amongst your charges. Then you verbally abuse people who try to help you.

Join the dots Einstein.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

That quote from Bullrush seems pretty spot on in the end doesn't it?

EDIT: HS, check this thread out, where much useful information was given about backline play. So before slagging everyone off, have a think about what it says about you.

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/forum/threads/7565-Backplay