include pacific islander's into the tri nation .

[wolverine]

On the face of it, a combined Pacific Islands tour of Australia, along the lines of the British Lions tour, is attractive.


However, basically, they do not like each other all that much, whereas there is a long tradition behind the Lions concept (even during the depths of the troubles in NI, the English, Irish, Scottish, and Welsh managed to tour together).

This argument of not getting along is a myth. One could argue that the Home Nations like each other much less, and have a series of far bloodier, larger and more devastating conflicts over many more centuries than the Pacific Islands. The English/British occupation of Ireland, conflicts and bombings during the Troubles, centuries of conflict between Scotland and England. Islanders get along fine in the club ranks, and arguably band together even more closely than they do with people of other ethnicities. They got along fine on the previous tours. They may play each other hard, because there is a friendly rivalry, but you see that in any local or regional derby.

Plus one of biggest benefits of the Lions tour is the number of inbound supporters that follow the whole circus from beginning to end. The rich viewing audience in the home countries is obviously worth gold to the host broadcaster.

A Pacific Islands combination would be a worthy contribution to rugby in the Pacific, but it would not, could not, be compared to a British Lions tour. Sadly.

While it is true that a combined PI test series would not be comparable to a British Lions tour, and you make good points about the benefits of the Lions' television audience in the HN, we need to be fair in the comparison: no tour or tournament is comparable to a Lions tour, except a World Cup. Even when elite nations like England and France (let alone the rest of the 6N) have come to play two tests here, they generated a fraction of the interest of a Lions tour.

 

[wolverine]

I believe that it would be hard for combined or individual PIs to join in the 4N. However, I'd suggest a combined PI team could tour three years out of four in November, perhaps mimicing the Wallabies and ABs schedule:
Year 1: combined team plays tests in tour of UK: England, Wales, Scotland (Fiji, Samoa, Tonga play 3 midweek tour games against British clubs/franchises)
Year 2: combined team plays non Lions recipients e.g. in 2013, plays tests against NZ, SA and Argentina
Year 3: combined team plays tests in tour of Europe: Ireland, France, Italy (Fiji, Samoa, Tonga play play midweek tour games against Irish/French clubs/provinces).

I'd suggest the Pacific Cup could be moved to September, with the IRB extending Regulation 9 to cover it, with Japan moving to host a competition involving USA and Canada. This would free up the June window, and Fiji/Samoa/Tonga could host touring teams fielding fringe lineups.

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

mate , im sure farva can defend himself , ..........anyways , im okay with everything you said , except , that bit where you said , i showed my true colours , if your going to call me something , just say it mate , guy's like me take on the chin and move on , im not too sure about you ..............anyways , i do agree with farva , that money will be an issue , i was fired up at the time when i replied to his comment , i tend to say alotta shit when im fired up , but i stand by what i said , it's time that someone with authority push for the pacific islander's to be included . .......... as for you bruwheresmycar ...., harden up , mate . ( i say that with a big smile on my face ) .

I'm not trying to protect anyone. I'm just tired of these endless complaining threads that bring the forum down. If your going to ask a question, then thoughtfully reply to the responses rather than do what you did, or else the thread goes off it's rails straight away and we are left with another aimless thread.

This would have been a good response: " i do agree with farva , that money will be an issue , it's time that someone with authority push for the pacific islander's to be included". If you said that a good discussion might have actually taken place. We would be talking about what PI teams can do to fix these money issues, would including Japan give us the funds we need? Would playing more games overseas fix the issue? Would building a bigger stadium in Fiji help?

But instead right from that moment the posts just followed suit and it turned into a flame war type thread. All i'm suggesting is that people who start threads should be the ones setting an example for that thread. It helps a lot.

 

[wamberal]

This argument of not getting along is a myth. One could argue that the Home Nations like each other much less, and have a series of far bloodier, larger and more devastating conflicts over many more centuries than the Pacific Islands. The English/British occupation of Ireland, conflicts and bombings during the Troubles, centuries of conflict between Scotland and England.

One could argue anything one liked, for sure. I have lived and worked in Tonga, so I suppose my views are coloured a bit by on the ground experience. In Tonga, not so long ago, rioters attacked and burnt a number of businesses in the Central Business District and a state of emergency was imposed which continued for some time (not sure whether it has been lifted yet). It is a downtrodden country, with a very small, rich elite, and a lot of poor people. Fiji, of course, is pretty much an international pariah because of a succession of coups. As for "centuries of conflict" - I simply refer you to the fact that even during the worst of the troubles in Northern Ireland, rugby players (mostly protestants, of course) continued to play proudly, and without any kind of discrimination, for Ireland. Centuries ago cannibalism was rife in some of the islands, but so what?

Islanders get along fine in the club ranks, and arguably band together even more closely than they do with people of other ethnicities. They got along fine on the previous tours. They may play each other hard, because there is a friendly rivalry, but you see that in any local or regional derby.

On-field discipline can be a problem. Did you see Fiji against Japan?
In any case, the point is not whether the players can get along (just about all of us can get along if we are chosen to play together as a team) but whether the administrators can, and whether they can organise themselves to pick, coach, and finance a combined team which has something of the cohesion and prestige that the B and I Lions have built up over the years. If they cannot, the venture will fail.

While it is true that a combined PI test series would not be comparable to a British Lions tour, and you make good points about the benefits of the Lions' television audience in the HN, we need to be fair in the comparison: no tour or tournament is comparable to a Lions tour, except a World Cup. Even when elite nations like England and France (let alone the rest of the 6N) have come to play two tests here, they generated a fraction of the interest of a Lions tour.

I did not raise the comparison of a PI tour as against the Lions, others did. I simply refuted it.

 

[wolverine]

Fair points, wamberal.