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If you could change the laws of rugby, what would you change?

Dewald Nel

Cyril Towers (30)
Stop the clock at scrums until the ball is out cleanly. I know it sounds insane, but not as insane as the current situation where they can have 5 resets which costs 3 minutes at 1 scrum. Basically 3 minutes where you'd rather be watching paint dry coz fuck all happened.

It's arguable that some teams use this as a time wasting tactic when they're ahead and closing out a match. This rule would avoid that. Yes, games might be longer, but at least some bullshitting at scrum time will take a hit.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
Stop the clock at scrums until the ball is out cleanly. I know it sounds insane, but not as insane as the current situation where they can have 5 resets which costs 3 minutes at 1 scrum. Basically 3 minutes where you'd rather be watching paint dry coz fuck all happened.

It's arguable that some teams use this as a time wasting tactic when they're ahead and closing out a match. This rule would avoid that. Yes, games might be longer, but at least some bullshitting at scrum time will take a hit.


A Springboks and Bulls fan posted this :)

I agree with all of this, I would also add that once a referee has awarded advantage to a forward pack at scrum time, rather then immediately blowing the whistle the halfback/no.8 are told to use the ball, force the team to have a run, go for a try or even a drop goal... Anything to speed the game up around scrum time.
 

Pedrolicus

Dick Tooth (41)
Yeah a posted something similar. There are plenty of examples of playable ball (with penalty advantage and sometimes just a reset) from scrums where they should let play continue. I really can't fathom why play is generally stopped in this situation.

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Scoey

Tony Shaw (54)
Front rowers (and forwards generally) should be benched for 10 minutes the moment one picks and drives for a fourth time when within 10 m of the tryline. Occasionally one of the fatties will get over the line after a succession of pick and drives but it is much more frequent that the ball simply gets turned over or a penalty against is awarded after three or four such phases.
You do realise that picking and driving is generally a technique to draw in defenders to create space out wider for backs to exploit don't you? It's not a try scoring manoeuvre first and foremost. If the defences don't come in then occasionally one of the forwards will get over.
 

boyo

Mark Ella (57)
Endless "pick and drives" are a blight on the game - they're boring to watch, but some may enjoy them.
 

waiopehu oldboy

George Smith (75)
As previously ranted on another thread, the thing that shits me most about our game ATM is the rolling maul that commences with an airborne player passing the ball to a waiting pod of players who then use the jumper & his supports/ blockers as a screen; and/ or the ball-carrier becoming unbound & "swimming around the side" to set up a second maul if the first is going nowhere.

I can see valid reasons why both might be allowed, BUT if that's the case then the defending team must IMO be allowed to take the maul down as per the ELV's from a few years back (that being by effecting a tackle rather than just lying on the ground & letting the maul roll over him & collapse, that's just way too dangerous); and defending players, having joined the maul "through the gate" must be allowed to "swim" around or through the maul to get at the ball-carrier. Subject, of course, to being cleaned out but most definitely not to having their head targeted.

My other pet hate is also a pretty common one (both in the frequency it occurs & unpopularity), the resetting of a collapsed scrum. I'd like to see any scrum that collapses let go provided the collapse was accidental and the ball is able to be cleared. Obviously the usual sanctions would still apply for the scrum being taken down deliberately. One exception being a 5m scrum where the attacking team should be given every opportunity to go for the pushover or work a scrum play. Again, the usual sanctions up to & including Penalty Try would apply to this being thwarted illegally.

Further I'd legislate that once the ball is at the No. 8's feet it's use it within a count of 1-2-3 or lose it: if >5m from the goal line then use it = clear it by hand or boot, if <5m then use it = clear it by hand or boot or be making forward progress. Again, the usual sanctions would apply for taking the scrum down, offside incl. breaking early, etc.
 

Pedrolicus

Dick Tooth (41)
As previously ranted on another thread, the thing that shits me most about our game ATM is the rolling maul that commences with an airborne player passing the ball to a waiting pod of players who then use the jumper & his supports/ blockers as a screen; and/ or the ball-carrier becoming unbound & "swimming around the side" to set up a second maul if the first is going nowhere.

I can see valid reasons why both might be allowed, BUT if that's the case then the defending team must IMO be allowed to take the maul down as per the ELV's from a few years back (that being by effecting a tackle rather than just lying on the ground & letting the maul roll over him & collapse, that's just way too dangerous); and defending players, having joined the maul "through the gate" must be allowed to "swim" around or through the maul to get at the ball-carrier. Subject, of course, to being cleaned out but most definitely not to having their head targeted.

My other pet hate is also a pretty common one (both in the frequency it occurs & unpopularity), the resetting of a collapsed scrum. I'd like to see any scrum that collapses let go provided the collapse was accidental and the ball is able to be cleared. Obviously the usual sanctions would still apply for the scrum being taken down deliberately. One exception being a 5m scrum where the attacking team should be given every opportunity to go for the pushover or work a scrum play. Again, the usual sanctions up to & including Penalty Try would apply to this being thwarted illegally.

Further I'd legislate that once the ball is at the No. 8's feet it's use it within a count of 1-2-3 or lose it: if >5m from the goal line then use it = clear it by hand or boot, if <5m then use it = clear it by hand or boot or be making forward progress. Again, the usual sanctions would apply for taking the scrum down, offside incl. breaking early, etc.
I would be happy if that scrum rule was even extended to the whole 22. Good call all around. The maul bit is a good compromise too, as long as the catcher stays on their feet the maul is legit. Makes it easier to call and gives the defense a clear objective. I like it.
 

Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
You do realise that picking and driving is generally a technique to draw in defenders to create space out wider for backs to exploit don't you? It's not a try scoring manoeuvre first and foremost. If the defences don't come in then occasionally one of the forwards will get over.

I do realise and understand the intent @Scoey. My beef is that they continue to pick and drive until someone knocks on or the other side wins a turnover. Sometimes, they earn an off side penalty but then the game usually reverts to more pick and drive until the almost inevitable turnover occurs. The ball does not make its way to the backs early or often enough in those situations.
 

Scoey

Tony Shaw (54)
So you'd prefer to see them fling it wide earlier? The golden rule of Rugby is you need to earn the right to go wide.

I'm not saying that it's always, or even often pretty to watch, but it annoys me when people say that particular aspects of Rugby should be discouraged, or that they are a blight on the game without considering whether, whilst not exciting in and of themselves, they don't play a greater part in the spectacle that is Rugby.
 

papabear

Watty Friend (18)
Earn the right to fling it wide...

what a load of bullcrap.

the backs could just set deeper... Why don't they need to earn the right to go wide in sevens?

The backs could set deeper if they need more time and space.

The rules/coaching strategy as it stands pays more love and percentage chance of victory to sides who don't make mistakes and pick up enough penalties / crap tries in good field position then sides that try and play running rugby.

Ask yourself are the backs saying another pick and drive please, we need more space. No don't give us the ball you overweight slow piece of shit, I need more space. No you take it you fat useless dope who can only make it in this sport due to your struggles in life. No I don't want to do anything back here.

No in my experience they don't say that the backs want the ball. Honestly sometimes I wonder if this pro pick and drive argument is propagated by forwards still remembering their "glory days" trying to convince themselves that there skill less efforts were and will remain relevant.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I disagree completely papabear.

The whole 'right to go wide' concept is on the idea that it is easy for the defence if they have sufficient numbers and the attacking team isn't going forward.

If you send the ball wide without forward momentum you're more likely to get the player isolated and lose the ball. It's about waiting for the opportunity to be there rather than squander the strong attacking position by having a crack when the opportunity isn't there.

Certainly the backs could just line out deeper but then you're giving away a big part of the advantage of being close to the line. Then you essentially need to make a break rather than just winning the contact and being close enough to score.

Clearly teams do also squander opportunities by going for too many pick and gos and then turning the ball over. Every time you do it there is a risk of making a mistake and also giving the defence a fresh opportunity to try and win the ball. If your pick and drives really aren't sucking in defenders after a few attempts you probably do need to try something different.

It will generally be the 9 and 10 telling the forwards to keep it for another phase until they see an opportunity rather than the forwards hanging onto the ball against the wishes of the backline.

Sure the winger might be standing out there wanting the ball now, but that's why wingers don't make many playmaking decisions.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
If memory serves me right Sevens is a completely different game played with half the players.........

Simply flinging the ball out wide to a set defence increases the chances of turning over the ball, and having the backs stand deeper is more than likely going to see them caught behind the advantage line.............

In conclusion - it is not at all bullcrap.

Edit - beaten to it by Braveheart.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
In some ways I see this as similar to the regular arguments by fans about players in the backline not passing the ball. Criticism of AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) for not passing is probably most notable.

I wonder whether the reaction of the same fans would be if we saw the winger getting bundled into touch or turned over at the breakdown due to lack of support far more frequently?
 

papabear

Watty Friend (18)
The ball doesn't necessarily need to go wide, you could pop it inside, go short outside, go outside then back in again. You could have the eventual contact point in the exact same spot as a pick and drive thereby nullifying the point re potential turnover, but putting 1 or 2 clever passes together but the risk of dropping the ball currently outweighs the gain of a line break.

Eitherway, imo an entertaining side, is one that is always trying to make a line break not just when in the contact battle.

The way you make a line break is by putting the ball into space, yes you are more likely to lose possession, but you are also more likely to gain a quick possession with no defenders there.

You are also much more likely to score a try.

I personally believe in beating the other side with your skill, constantly asking different questions, constantly making the defence run and cover for eachother.

However, as it is now the percentages seek to just wear the other side down through sheer possession even if it is a nothing possession.

The question you have to ask yourself is what do you prefer to watch, teams trying to beat eachother through skill or power. Because nowadays its mostly about power, I would prefer it to revert to skill.

That said, I understand why pick and drives are used in the modern game, I understand the role of the gym pumping war horse in the modern power game. But this thread is about what you would change. Change the rules to get players practicing skills out on the footy field and not spending their time dropping funny shakes as a 15 yr old in a gym.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
You say it like it's an either or.

It's pretty frustrating as a fan watching your team butcher opportunities close to the line because they send the ball wide when there isn't a good opportunity.

You want teams to take good options and generally that will involve a mix of all these things whether it is pick and goes, a short pass to a pod of forwards, a crash ball or inside pass a bit wider out or eventually going really wide when you've created a numerical advantage.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
The best teams in the world are the ones who have the skill to send it both wide and keep it tight, and more importantly picking the right time to do either...

Papabear your comment that the backs are screaming for the ball is wrong, watch a game and focus on the 5/8, watch the Reds and you will see Quade directing the forwards to keep going and you will see him call for it when he can identify the space has the backline set.

You can't change the rules about pick and drives without completely altering the fabric of the game and how it's played.




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Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Invariably, if the winger gets bundled into touch close to the line you've made the wrong decision in attack.
 
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