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IF NZ and Aust meet ........

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notapatrioticboneinme

Sydney Middleton (9)
If both are good enough and fortunate enough to meet in the final, then;
Forward set-piece; not much between them
Forward open-play; front row NZ more ruck involvement, locks NZ a class above Aust, Vito/Kaino v Fardy I dunno?, Read easily best 8; Pocock best 7 playing at 8, McCaw over Hooper
Backs; NZ a class above Aust, especially 9, 11, 13, and 14
IMO
 
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notapatrioticboneinme

Sydney Middleton (9)
Pfitzy said:
Fuck. Why would we even bother beating Scotland given NZ are "a class above" in every fucking position?
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Pfitzy, The locks, Read as an 8, McCaw over Hooper, and 9,11,13,14.
If you disagree with my assessment of these positions feel free to give your opinion (that was 8 positions not 15, you do comprehend?).
Silly statement, "why would we even bother". Why have all the teams that didn't make the QF's bother to try to win, very silly.
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Why is Read easily the best 8? Read is playing very well but Pocock has arguably been the most impactful player of the pool stage.

NZ front rowers may have more ruck involvement but are they having a bigger impact on the matches? Kepu in particular has been very dynamic in general play and had some very significant involvements.
 
BDA

BDA

Jim Lenehan (48)
In Australia's favour is the age of this All Blacks team. McCaw and Carter are both exceptional players, but both are past their best.

Of course they are still arguably close to the best in the world in their respective positions but they are unlikely to dominate a game like they could 3 or 4 years ago. I could see both being outplayed by their opposite number, and I wouldn't have said that 4 years ago.
 
ACT Crusader

ACT Crusader

Jim Lenehan (48)
The only thing similar about Read and Pocock and the way they play and how their respective teams use them is that they pack down at scrum time at no8. Other than that they are very different propositions.

Consider the mauls and how Pocock is used at the tail. The ABs use Coles in that role and Read is often in the middle of the maul because he takes most of our LO ball. Read plays a lot out wide in attack because he is quick and has a great offload game. The large majority of Pocock's runs are in the middle and linking there.

Defensively they attack the tackle/breakdown very differently. Both are invaluable to the way the teams attack and defend.
 
Antony

Antony

Alex Ross (28)
True story - I'd rather have the Australian front row in its entirety, particularly Scott Sio, and I'd sub Pocock into 7 with McCaw pushing to 6. Otherwise I'm happy to keep our team. Folau is obviously great, but I'm a real Ben Smith cheerleader.
 
dru

dru

David Wilson (68)
Antony said:
True story - I'd rather have the Australian front row in its entirety, particularly Scott Sio, and I'd sub Pocock into 7 with McCaw pushing to 6. Otherwise I'm happy to keep our team. Folau is obviously great, but I'm a real Ben Smith cheerleader.
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I understand this.

But what doesn't enter the equation is coaching and building with the available strengths. Kiwis have been setting the pace here for decades. But with respect, right now I'll take the Wallaby preparation over the Kiwi's and that requires the players we have as they are.

Would it be enough?

I'm with Pfitzy. Bring on the Scots.
 
Antony

Antony

Alex Ross (28)
dru said:
I'll take the Wallaby preparation over the Kiwi's and that requires the players we have as they are.
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Yep, I agree with that. Cheika seems to be an excellent man-manager, Ledesma is a miracle worker, Nathan Grey is obviously doing his job. Hansen on the other hand fell out of the lucky-tree and hit every branch on the way down, so who knows if he's actually any good? The one really excellent call he's made to date was the selection of Aaron Smith, which occurred before a lot of people were fully aware of the extra dimension that his pass could bring. Overall though, I'd much prefer the Australian coaching staff.

One thing that Australia should institute is the kind of central scrummaging coaching across the various franchises and provinces that Mike Cron ran (is still running?) in NZ. It lifted the standard across the board, and allowed new players to slot into the national side more easily.
 
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notapatrioticboneinme

Sydney Middleton (9)
Braveheart81 said:
Why is Read easily the best 8? Read is playing very well but Pocock has arguably been the most impactful player of the pool stage.
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Offence is obviously a major part of an 8; imo read has a decided advantage over Pocock offensively, whereas defensively Pocock certainly has the better credentials, that's why he's a 7 (up to this rwc) isn't it?
 
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notapatrioticboneinme

Sydney Middleton (9)
Braveheart81 said:
NZ front rowers may have more ruck involvement but are they having a bigger impact on the matches?
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Don't know, though I love Sio


Braveheart81 said:
Kepu in particular has been very dynamic in general play and had some very significant involvements.
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Kepu in open play has always disappointed me (apart from when he threw the English? hooker) when running close to the ruck, never seems to run at tops; against the backs out wider no problem; that's why I always wish someone would slap him around a bit before he runs on
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
notapatrioticboneinme said:
Kepu in open play has always disappointed me (apart from when he threw the English? hooker) when running close to the ruck, never seems to run at tops; against the backs out wider no problem; that's why I always wish someone would slap him around a bit before he runs on
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I'd say he's been comfortably our best front rower in open play during the RWC so far so he's doing something right. His scrummaging has also been awesome.

His ball playing is a big asset.
 
Viking

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
notapatrioticboneinme said:
If both are good enough and fortunate enough to meet in the final, then;
Forward set-piece; not much between them
Forward open-play; front row NZ more ruck involvement, locks NZ a class above Aust, Vito/Kaino v Fardy I dunno?, Read easily best 8; Pocock best 7 playing at 8, McCaw over Hooper
Backs; NZ a class above Aust, especially 9, 11, 13, and 14
IMO
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Roles are different in the back row in both side, it's closer too:
Fardy V Read = Read
Kaino V Hooper = Kaino of 2011 wins but he ain't the same now. Close call.
McCaw V Pocock = On current form Poey wins this but McCaw could scrap through for his leadership/Captaining. So close call again.

You would seriously consider the Aussie front row too. They are all pretty close IMO.

NZ without a doubt own locks and back-line and but you'd consider starting Folau in the wing.

All this will change of coarse once we win the World Cup ;)
 
BDA

BDA

Jim Lenehan (48)
All this will change of course once we win the World Cup
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This comment is obviously tongue in cheek, but there is something to that idea. IF the Wallabies were able to go on to beat the All Blacks in the final people's perceptions of these players would no doubt change.

A guy like Foley appears to be coming of age and its possible we could be looking back in a few years' time realising that he was the preferable option over an aging Carter, etc.

Of course we are all getting a bit ahead of ourselves. The Wallabies have achieved nothing and the All Blacks have been no.1 since forever and a day.
 
Brisbok

Brisbok

Cyril Towers (30)
Why wait?? The other 6 teams are basically there to make up the numbers! Let's move on and start focussing on the main contest!
 
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