Ideas for NRC

[Forcefield]

I agree that they shouldn't be FIFO but NSW teams have shown to some extent they can be successful without Super Rugby support. They will have to draw on the local comp players but surely the ARU could keep the pathway open by assisting with coaching, resources and logistics?

It still wouldn't be competitive. I can't speak for Victoria, but the loss of the Force will send the local rugby scene back into the dark ages. Current local Western Force players will move interstate or overseas. The interstate ones will be unlikely to return because they will have made a home in their new state. Players from the Pindan Premiership who are good enough for NRC and/or Super Rugby will most likely move to a rugby competition where they might actually get noticed. A few might stay because they have set up lives over here. The loss of the Force academy and coaching structure will also impact on our U20 system and we would most likely be removed from the Super U20 competition. Any U20s from Perth who want to pursue a rugby career will move interstate to make that state's U20 team. We would be left with nothing.

Why would anyone be interested in flying all the way over to Perth to collect 5 competition points against a bunch of non-professional easybeats?

 

[TOCC]

Unfortunately I agree

 

[p.Tah]

Unfortunately yes you're both right. It's a complete cluster f*ck.

 

[joeyjohnz]

The NRC is a secondary competition given no real level of promotion. It uses greenfield franchises that were always going to take time to bed down. This competition uses established brands playing in a familiar format in many respects. It will also feature the best available talent. Something the NRC tends to not have with a great deal of consistency.

Should also be noted that boththe crowd and TV ratings for the NRC saw double digit growth last season. Albeit from a low base.

I should also note that I am effectively suggesting taking the NRC and re-organising it to be the primary vessel. Using our establish brands from Super Rugby and traditional representative structures.​

And regarding low crowds in the NRC
As the NRC stands now. Yes. It would be an issue. But by publicly taking the structure and bringing in the current 5 plus a few more it makes it very clear that this would be a fully professional league. The NRC both benefits and suffers from Greenfield franchises. Everyone in Rugby knows the Tahs, Reds, Brumbies etc. are professional franchises. I don't think there will be too much confusion if any.

Hey WCR, replying to a few of your posts from the 2017 crowd & Tv ratings thread regarding the NRC so as to not go off topic in my reply.

I agree with you that the NRC should really be the Super Franchises with their IP & names being the same. I also think that the NRC should just be the 5 franchises & Fiji for the next two years, with a full Home & Away season and Grand Final.

There's a 15 week gap between Super Rugby GF & the NH test tour. There's 7 Wallaby games in that period. There'll be the same gap next year with the international season. If you kick off the week after Soop GF - and schedule 4 competition-wide bye weeks during every 2nd Wallaby test - top flight players would only miss 3/10 pool rounds.

In the Grand Final week you have 1v2 and maybe a promotion/relegation match for the 4th Aus birth in Super Rugby.

The competition would be have a combination of local teams, international appeal from Fiji and room for expansion down the track.

You want to make the NRC relevant? Make an investment, broadcast on FTA and tell the public: - Bottom 2 Australian teams after the NRC pool rounds play a two match series Home&Away to determine who makes Super Rugby next year. The top 3 make the finals (2v3, winner plays 1)

Crowds can't be much worse than the 11k on display against the Kings. The Reds & Tahs might make a bit more coin playing at Ballymore/Moore park too.

This way you can keep 5 teams and the players and Super Rugby becomes merit based. Super Clubs can loan players for the super season from the non-Super club in the case of Wallabies and good fringe players, which could help with the financial burden on the team that doesn't qualify.

In the future, once the competition is established the 4 bye-weeks disappear with the addition of Western Sydney & whoever's more profitable out of Qld Country/Sunwolves.

If this NRC captured just 15% of casual NRL & AFL viewers at time when their season is finishing/ wrapping up, the broadcast deal would be worth $100mil a year.

 

[dru]

It still wouldn't be competitive. I can't speak for Victoria, but the loss of the Force will send the local rugby scene back into the dark ages. Current local Western Force players will move interstate or overseas. The interstate ones will be unlikely to return because they will have made a home in their new state. Players from the Pindan Premiership who are good enough for NRC and/or Super Rugby will most likely move to a rugby competition where they might actually get noticed. A few might stay because they have set up lives over here. The loss of the Force academy and coaching structure will also impact on our U20 system and we would most likely be removed from the Super U20 competition. Any U20s from Perth who want to pursue a rugby career will move interstate to make that state's U20 team. We would be left with nothing.

Why would anyone be interested in flying all the way over to Perth to collect 5 competition points against a bunch of non-professional easybeats?

This sort of depression right now is completely understandable.

Unequivocally one fuster cluck from Billy Pulver was a refusal to accept any further discussion was required about the NRC - currently the only national footprint on the ARUs planning.

If there is no plan here, then cutting is exavtly that - reduction of rugby in Australia.

What a bunch of muppets. How in hells name can they hold their jobs?

 

[amirite]

It still wouldn't be competitive. I can't speak for Victoria, but the loss of the Force will send the local rugby scene back into the dark ages. Current local Western Force players will move interstate or overseas. The interstate ones will be unlikely to return because they will have made a home in their new state. Players from the Pindan Premiership who are good enough for NRC and/or Super Rugby will most likely move to a rugby competition where they might actually get noticed. A few might stay because they have set up lives over here. The loss of the Force academy and coaching structure will also impact on our U20 system and we would most likely be removed from the Super U20 competition. Any U20s from Perth who want to pursue a rugby career will move interstate to make that state's U20 team. We would be left with nothing.

Why would anyone be interested in flying all the way over to Perth to collect 5 competition points against a bunch of non-professional easybeats?

Victoria is in the same boat, I promise you that.

But look, if the smaller NPC provinces in NZ can attract good players by faking it until they make it, then proving there's a legitimate pathway, some guys will stay.

A lot of it might be willingness to convince guys to move over for the duration of the tournament from the comp they usually play in, which is a tough sell but doable. Maybe also affiliation with the Brumbies or whoever survives out of the Force/Rebels to get half of their players?

It's a sad future.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

While it would be far from ideal I would hope a portion of the savings made would go toward ensuring the continued participation of either the Rising or Spirit in the NRC.

 

[TOCC]

I dont agree, it would be a waste of money better invested elsewhere..

 

[Forcefield]

I know what I am about to say will probably sound like madness so please read it as ponderings rather than a well-thought idea:

What would happen if the ARU let Super Rugby burn? If we used the NRC as the tier below the Wallabies and aim to sell the TV rights to the NRC to whoever will buy it (preferably with some free to air content). I fully appreciate that the value of the NRC pales drastically in comparison to Super Rugby. I haven't thought too much about how this would work out for NZ or South Africa. Okay so the ARU now have a fraction of the money that they used to have for professional Tier Two rugby. So they make a ruling that says for the next 3 years (until the NRC can cement itself and the product becomes more valuable) Wallabies can be selected from overseas (we can't pay them off the broadcasting rights from the NRC anyway). Admittedly, this is going to see a drop off in the performance of the Wallabies but if our metric is beating New Zealand and nobody cares about anything else it is not like we would be losing too much.

3 years down the track those people who would have watched the Force or the Rebels or whoever are now watching the NRC and the crowds have increased and the former sponsors (e.g. Road Safety, Aquis, Daikin, etc) hopefully get on board to some extent. Not as good as Super Rugby but lets face it Super Rugby is dying (from a crowd attendance POV).

By this time New Zealand have probably realised that they actually depend on us- Super Rugby without Australia would be a bit crazy (New Zealand games at a crazy time of the morning for South Africa and South African games at a crazy time of the morning for New Zealanders). They will get on board with an idea around whatever the Heineken Cup is called these days. This would hopefully fill in the gap between the loss of revenue from the NRC and Super Rugby.

Is it plausible that something like this could work? It would take a truck load of balls to pull something like that off. Burn everything to the ground and start a fresh.

 

[dru]

FF (Folau Fainga'a) It's the sort of B Plan that many of us have been thinking that the ARU needed to investigate seriously. There are obvious challenges. It's not tbh a good plan. But I'm thinking better than what we have.

Some of our G&GR overseas fans have suggested that it would be foolish to presume we can opt out on Super without SANZAR forcing us to go solo on the internationals. Personally I think it foolish to presume SANZAR would be so petulant. Only one can be right there. Those waters should have been tested.

It also doesnt address the SRU/SS red-raggers. Who, by the way, as we stretch through this mess, start sounding the more sensible. The Sydney scene would need a role they are happy with in this domestic B plan. And the plan would need to stetch into the grass roots to have any credibility.

Better still, would have been a Plan that placed veto on the current arrangements and built towards implementing an alternative from 2020. Hold the 5 teams, so when we merged into a domestic-first scenario we did so from strength.

Your plan maintains a national footprint, which is good. It retains the investment in the state being cut (and wasted) in the ARUs current intentions.

It also needs thought as to how we build representational teams for Super Rugby. It has been mentioned (not just by me) that we could arrange SOO style selection teams from this NRC/National comp. thats important because we can "cut" or rather nominate 2 or 3 teams as easily as 4 or 5. Without distress to the new pro rugby. but this sort of comp doesnt fit with a full season of the Super we have now.

Complaints over cost are overblown, most money comes from WBs. Money from Super should be matched as we have local content. (I know the telecast world is changing) and travel costs are reduced.

If we were to see Super Rugby morph into a Champions League this would mesh well. But as much as this would suit Aus, it wont suit NZ. Nor SA with where they are now travelling.

 

[amirite]

I know what I am about to say will probably sound like madness so please read it as ponderings rather than a well-thought idea:

What would happen if the ARU let Super Rugby burn? If we used the NRC as the tier below the Wallabies and aim to sell the TV rights to the NRC to whoever will buy it (preferably with some free to air content). I fully appreciate that the value of the NRC pales drastically in comparison to Super Rugby. I haven't thought too much about how this would work out for NZ or South Africa. Okay so the ARU now have a fraction of the money that they used to have for professional Tier Two rugby. So they make a ruling that says for the next 3 years (until the NRC can cement itself and the product becomes more valuable) Wallabies can be selected from overseas (we can't pay them off the broadcasting rights from the NRC anyway). Admittedly, this is going to see a drop off in the performance of the Wallabies but if our metric is beating New Zealand and nobody cares about anything else it is not like we would be losing too much.

3 years down the track those people who would have watched the Force or the Rebels or whoever are now watching the NRC and the crowds have increased and the former sponsors (e.g. Road Safety, Aquis, Daikin, etc) hopefully get on board to some extent. Not as good as Super Rugby but lets face it Super Rugby is dying (from a crowd attendance POV).

By this time New Zealand have probably realised that they actually depend on us- Super Rugby without Australia would be a bit crazy (New Zealand games at a crazy time of the morning for South Africa and South African games at a crazy time of the morning for New Zealanders). They will get on board with an idea around whatever the Heineken Cup is called these days. This would hopefully fill in the gap between the loss of revenue from the NRC and Super Rugby.

Is it plausible that something like this could work? It would take a truck load of balls to pull something like that off. Burn everything to the ground and start a fresh.

I appreciate you're just pondering, but I think in a situation that we either have an Australian-only product, a free-to-air product, or both, the amount of income from our domestic league from TV rights contracts substantially.

With this, players payments become smaller and I believe we see a number of young players explore rugby league or those with the ability to think long term (or with good managers) leaving Australia to play rugby overseas the moment they get a good highlights reel. Maybe European teams even explore naturalising Aussies before they're capped? We sure as hell lose out on all the PI boys like Naisarani.

I just don't think Australian rugby could function with so many teams and so few dollars to fund them with, even if there is upsides too.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I appreciate you're just pondering, but I think in a situation that we either have an Australian-only product, a free-to-air product, or both, the amount of income from our domestic league from TV rights contracts substantially.

With this, players payments become smaller and I believe we see a number of young players explore rugby league or those with the ability to think long term (or with good managers) leaving Australia to play rugby overseas the moment they get a good highlights reel. Maybe European teams even explore naturalising Aussies before they're capped? We sure as hell lose out on all the PI boys like Naisarani.

I just don't think Australian rugby could function with so many teams and so few dollars to fund them with, even if there is upsides too.

I prefer a model where we expand nrc as long form domestic semi pro comp below super rugby as realistically we try and grow Marc but at lower risk. Long term plan would be for super rugby to be more champions league and nrc become sole pro competition but baby steps required.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[GunnerDownUnder]

Having gone through the exact same thing with my old team in Scotland, I don't envy any of you Rebels or Force fans, staff, or players.
Rugby will hopefully continue in your state, but it takes a lot of time and effort to get back to a level you were before the professional team started.
Keep at the coal-face and run your clubs as best you can.

 

[joeyjohnz]

I prefer a model where we expand nrc as long form domestic semi pro comp below super rugby as realistically we try and grow Marc but at lower risk. Long term plan would be for super rugby to be more champions league and nrc become sole pro competition but baby steps required.

That's why I like a full H&A NRC season with 5 Soop franchises & Fiji effective immediately with expansion on the cards post 2020. The model enables you to skip straight to a fully professional domestic competition with World Rugby funding Fiji travel, wages & the professional infrastructure behind it (stadiums & academies)

Broadcast the two Aussie derbies a week on Free-to-Air, paying Channel 10 if you have to for the first 3 years. If the Shute Shield & their supporters can find the money for 7mate on a Saturday afternoon, there's no reason why a national comp featuring QLD vs. NSW won't.

If the ARU went out and said, "This is the NRC, this is the deciding factor on who makes Super Rugby next year." Boom, NRC relevance.

I'd be willing to predict 10,000 strong crowds and a lot of interest from casual Rugby followers with the other winter codes winding up.

It gives the super clubs an extra 5 home-games a season & 8 games on FTA TV, increasing sponsorship & financial stability.

It also allows you to fight the silver-tail mantra with Reds v Tahs, Brumbies v Tahs not hidden away behind Ruperts paywall.

Sure, you'd be pissed at your team being demoted, but this is more preferable than the Rebels or Force being cut from Super Rugby and unable to play the Brumbies, Tahs & Reds forever.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I dont agree, it would be a waste of money better invested elsewhere..

Cutting a franchise will already but tough enough. But effectively severing the pathway would be madness in my opinion. Players need to be given access further up the chain and the NRC would provide that. As would putting money into a local academy set up and looking to get more DO's on the ground to run it alongside coaching training etc.

 

[TOCC]

Cutting a franchise will already but tough enough. But effectively severing the pathway would be madness in my opinion. Players need to be given access further up the chain and the NRC would provide that. As would putting money into a local academy set up and looking to get more DO's on the ground to run it alongside coaching training etc.

Cutting the Super Rugby team is severing the pathway, the NRC won't keep that connection alive, retaining a NRC team won't achieve the desired effect and that money would be better spent on Development Officers in the region.

Sydney NRC teams with half a dozen of Super Rugby players each and a much more mature club rugby scene really struggled to put forward competitive teams in 2014 and 2015. Queensland has won 2 tournaments through Brisbane City, but Queensland Country were at the other end of the table during that period, and thats with 8-12 Super Rugby players and the cream of the crop from the QPR.

A Perth or Melbourne team without any Super Rugby players, coaching, medical, S&C and logistical staff simply won't be competitive in the NRC. And a team full of Sydney/Brisbane FIFO players won't work either, that was tried with Melbourne in the ARC and the costs were absolutely exorbitant.

The jump between Perth/Melbourne club rugby and the NRC is just far too great without a Super Rugby teams resources to help bridge the gap, and a lack of competitiveness amongst teams in the comp compromises and undermines the whole concept behind the competition.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Cutting the Super Rugby team is severing the pathway, the NRC won't keep that connection alive, retaining a NRC team won't achieve the desired effect and that money would be better spent on Development Officers in the region.

Sydney NRC teams with half a dozen of Super Rugby players each and a much more mature club rugby scene really struggled to put forward competitive teams in 2014 and 2015. Queensland has won 2 tournaments through Brisbane City, but Queensland Country were at the other end of the table during that period, and thats with 8-12 Super Rugby players and the cream of the crop from the QPR.

A Perth or Melbourne team without any Super Rugby players, coaching, medical, S&C and logistical staff simply won't be competitive in the NRC. And a team full of Sydney/Brisbane FIFO players won't work either, that was tried with Melbourne in the ARC and the costs were absolutely exorbitant.

The jump between Perth/Melbourne club rugby and the NRC is just far too great without a Super Rugby teams resources to help bridge the gap, and a lack of competitiveness amongst teams in the comp compromises and undermines the whole concept behind the competition.

The Sydney club scene also spread its resources a lot thinner in the first two seasons as well. Pumping more resources into the region at the groumd level would be great but there still needs to be a conduit for talented footballers toward higher honours. Perhaps the NRC may not be the level. Perhaps that is at the club level.

Say if it is the Rebels in the end then essentially the old Axemen team could be revived and then entered in one pf the three primary club competitions.

 

[Dave Beat]

Victoria is in the same boat, I promise you that.

But look, if the smaller NPC provinces in NZ can attract good players by faking it until they make it, then proving there's a legitimate pathway, some guys will stay.

A lot of it might be willingness to convince guys to move over for the duration of the tournament from the comp they usually play in, which is a tough sell but doable. Maybe also affiliation with the Brumbies or whoever survives out of the Force/Rebels to get half of their players?

It's a sad future.

I believe it works in NZ as rugby is the primary code from one coast to the other, unfortunately if the Force or Rebels didnt exist faking it would be to hard.

I'm not sure that players will go there as they wont be noticed.

 

[amirite]

I believe it works in NZ as rugby is the primary code from one coast to the other, unfortunately if the Force or Rebels didnt exist faking it would be to hard.

I'm not sure that players will go there as they wont be noticed.

An apt point Dave.

 

[p.Tah]

Many junior clubs in Sydney hold their presentation days this weekend. A thought for next season, rather than having them at each club, hold them at an NRC/women's 7s comp day.
Think of today's Mac Uni day. Plenty of space for each local club to have a roped off section for their awards, then everyone heads over to watch the games.

Clubs have between 200-400 juniors each, add in the parents, let them watch the game free and you've got a pretty big crowd. Set up a food festival and other activities for kids and you'd have an amazing rugby day out.