Ideas for NRC

[Braveheart81]

I wonder if the Waratahs lack of involvement in the NRC teams is partly dictated by the NSWRU and the clout the Shute Shield clubs hold in NSWRU?

There seems to be a huge disconnect between the noises and threats being made by the Shute Shield clubs and the actual power they wield.

It's a professional sport and the players are the ones that hold the majority of the power. They will keep doing what they think gives them the best opportunity of getting a professional contract at a higher level than they currently have. If the Shute Shield clubs start getting in the way of that happening they'll get less and less commitment from players.

Irrespective of the Waratahs involvement in the NRC, the NSW based players are still going to be keen to be involved because it is undoubtedly a stepping stone to a Super Rugby (or foreign) contract whether it is with the Waratahs or another Super Rugby side.

 

[Braveheart81]

Well Manly's 2013 Colt side that had a number of NSW & Aust players - they all played in the Manly Colts SS side, and alot of them came up through the Manly Village clubs.

That's great but the only relevance is that the Northern Beaches has plenty of kids growing up who are good rugby players.

It's not like these players are a great secret until they play a couple of years of Shute Shield. They are making rep sides on the way up, playing JGC, and making NSW and Australian age teams (i.e. being picked up by the ARU development pathway).

 

[TOCC]

I wonder if the Waratahs lack of involvement in the NRC teams is partly dictated by the NSWRU and the clout the Shute Shield clubs hold in NSWRU?

There seems to be a huge disconnect between the noises and threats being made by the Shute Shield clubs and the actual power they wield.

It's a professional sport and the players are the ones that hold the majority of the power. They will keep doing what they think gives them the best opportunity of getting a professional contract at a higher level than they currently have. If the Shute Shield clubs start getting in the way of that happening they'll get less and less commitment from players.

Irrespective of the Waratahs involvement in the NRC, the NSW based players are still going to be keen to be involved because it is undoubtedly a stepping stone to a Super Rugby (or foreign) contract whether it is with the Waratahs or another Super Rugby side.

Part of me thinks this is just a giant bluff by the Shute Shield/Premier Grade clubs, they know that running such a tournament in direct competition to the NRC would have dire consequences for both and probably render both financially unfeasible, but threatening to do so gives them a little more ammo at the bargaining table and helps their cause in receiving a potential grant.

 

[I like to watch]

Didn't I read on one of the threads recently that all comps/trials have to be sanctioned by the governing body?
Makes hardball tactics by clubs redundant doesn't it?

 

[RugbyReg]

good point. You are correct.

 

[Dave Beat]

That's great but the only relevance is that the Northern Beaches has plenty of kids growing up who are good rugby players.

It's not like these players are a great secret until they play a couple of years of Shute Shield. They are making rep sides on the way up, playing JGC, and making NSW and Australian age teams (i.e. being picked up by the ARU development pathway).

This thread has morphed outside of the NRC and captured all sorts of stuff.

What the bold says - I believe there are a truck load of good rugby players out there outside of the beaches, and hence what I'm saying in the ARU / Australian Rugby thread.

We can kick ass working together, and that is the ARU making good sensible use of the tools it has available to them - the Premier Clubs in each state. Not all players will make First Grade, NRC, Super Rugby, but if we grow our quantity coming through within the Premier Clubs the quality will rise.

If the ARU has Premier Clubs increase the players coming through the quality of the NRC will lift in future years - just to keep it on topic.

 

[Braveheart81]

The problem is that the Premier Clubs want to keep doing exactly what they've always done and be given money to do it by the segments of Australian rugby that generate revenue. They don't want to change and evolve with a sport that has gone through huge changes due to professionalism and changing demographics in the country.

 

[Dave Beat]

The problem is that the Premier Clubs want to keep doing exactly what they've always done and be given money to do it by the segments of Australian rugby that generate revenue. They don't want to change and evolve with a sport that has gone through huge changes due to professionalism and changing demographics in the country.

That is well put - thank you.

• If they keep doing what they have always done, it is = $0.
• If they do something and only if results are achieved they receive something = $

Like the posters on here, i do think the premier clubs also want what is best for our game.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

How many players in the current NSW U20's squad have played Shute Shield? I'd imagine a fair chunk are yet to play in the Shute Shield or if they have, its only been a handful of appearances.
<snip>

You are not far off the mark.
Typically there have only been a couple of NSW U20s (or Aus U20s from NSW, if you want to go back further in history, recognising that State U20 teams in the context of the Aust U20 pathway is only in its 3rd iteration this year) that have had any previous Shute Shield (Sydney 1st Grade) game time in their first year out of school, before they were chosen for the U20's.

Previously Aus U20's were chosen from a series (usually 3) of invitation only training camps).

The final 2016 NSW Squad hasn't been published but last season in their first year out of school, as 18 turning 19 year old young men, James Wilkinson (Gordon) and Latu Latinipulu (Ranndwick) were regular 1st Grade players. Jack Maddocks (Easts) and Henry Hutchison (Randwick) played quite a number of 1st Grade games.
Vunipola Fifita (Randwick), Connor O'Shea, (Uni), Declan Moore (Uni) played less than 5 Shute Shield games each for their clubs.
Those numbers (2 lots, 2 quite a few, and 3 some) are not far off the "experience" range of previous cohorts in the U20's.

In NRC 2.0, Moore, Porter (both Stars) and Wilkinson (Rays) got some game time (not much) for NSW NRC Teams. Different story in QLD, ACT, Vic and WA where 13 players from this cohort got NRC game time as 18 or 19 year olds.

The bulk of the State and national U20 players were playing Colts rugby in the year prior to being selected for the State/National U20's, and most returned to Colts Rugby AFTER their U20 Campaign (either State, or State and National) was over. While they returned to Colts, a small % of those would get some limited time in Shute Shield to prepare them for the following seasons footy.

TL;DR. I think expenditure on U20 programmes is an investment in "The Pathway" with indirect benefits being delivered to Premium Rugby as a consequence, rather then the other way around.

 

[Caputo]

While at the other end, a comment in 'The Code' mentioned that the Brumbies came back fitter than previously. Should benefit 4 of the Aussie Super Rugby sides.

 

[dru]

That is well put - thank you.

• If they keep doing what they have always done, it is = $0.
• If they do something and only if results are achieved they receive something = $

Like the posters on here, i do think the premier clubs also want what is best for our game.

Dave, I just love what you have shown Manly doing at the grassroots. Total respect. But I'm going to hold my line.

Yes the Shute Shield (Nb NOT the Premier clubs, only SS are chasing direct payment as far as I can tell) want what they think is best for the game. Three problems:
1: they are wrong, history has defeated them and they live in the gilded past;
2: they are attacking the ARU, unmercifully, no attempt to work proactively just utter attack against Bill Pulver.
3: they are deliberately misrepresenting

ARU, and rugby lovers who see this, have no choice but to respond.

We want the grass roots supported to the extent that finance can possibly manage. Funding through the union, in the case the NSWRU is the right vehicle, notwithstanding the politics in that organisation. A club like Manly should surely get sympathetic hearing from the NSWRU. I doubt many more SS clubs would. If Manly dont, its not really an ARU issue, but perhaps something needs looking at.

There is just sheer arogance from the SS media presentation. Manly might not be part of that, but its hard to reach any other conclusion than the SS has pushed Manly forward as one of the few SS clubs with a grass roots element to the club. This win-loose thing should stay on the rugby pitch.

The attempt by the SS to own "rugby grassroots" is an anathma. And we are not that stupid.

 

[Dave Beat]

Dave, I just love what you have shown Manly doing at the grassroots. Total respect. But I'm going to hold my line.

Yes the Shute Shield (Nb NOT the Premier clubs, only SS are chasing direct payment as far as I can tell) want what they think is best for the game. Three problems:
1: they are wrong, history has defeated them and they live in the gilded past;
2: they are attacking the ARU, unmercifully, no attempt to work proactively just utter attack against Bill Pulver.
3: they are deliberately misrepresenting

ARU, and rugby lovers who see this, have no choice but to respond.

We want the grass roots supported to the extent that finance can possibly manage. Funding through the union, in the case the NSWRU is the right vehicle, notwithstanding the politics in that organisation. A club like Manly should surely get sympathetic hearing from the NSWRU. I doubt many more SS clubs would. If Manly dont, its not really an ARU issue, but perhaps something needs looking at.

There is just sheer arogance from the SS media presentation. Manly might not be part of that, but its hard to reach any other conclusion than the SS has pushed Manly forward as one of the few SS clubs with a grass roots element to the club. This win-loose thing should stay on the rugby pitch.

The attempt by the SS to own "rugby grassroots" is an anathma. And we are not that stupid.

Cheers Dru, always fair.
Do nothing, Get nothing.
I haven't looked to be critical of Pulveriser or ARU.
Yes some people have been portrayed through jornos to be having a crack at ARU, and Pulveriser - I'm on the fence there.

Still say, put in the effort, get results, and with results, and only results - grants can come. If ARU can jag a Grass Roots Growth sponsor, maybe that can make it work and grow.

I haven't put the cart before the horse.

 

[dru]

Dave, fwiw, I'm looking for an NRC team now that Stars have been dumped. I would have become a SS team follower some years back if I had felt welcomed. But I'm not a local old boy. Sorry but those SS teams dont feel inviting. (No I didnt try Manly but they didnt chase me either, ok I live in Balmain. But how the hell am I meant to know good guys?)

A couple of Rams guys have said, hey join us! Love it. Very tempted. But my natural inclination after Stars are dumped is to revert to my State of Origin.

But I am not just saying that Im impressed with Manly, I'm wondering if I can be a Rays fan. Hmm maybe even Marlins.

Dont know where I am going, but believe me, I am watching and thinking.

 

[Dave Beat]

But I am not just saying that Im impressed with Manly, I'm wondering if I can be a Rays fan. Hmm maybe even Marlins.

Always welcome, drop me a PM

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^ The Plan for @dru for 9 Winter Saturdays:
Get to East Balmain by bus, walk, dropped off, taxi etc. Ferry from East Balmain - Circular Quay then change there to the Manly Ferry. Have an ale or two at 4 Pines when you get off the Ferry at Manly. Stop in The Corso for a Kebab or some other tummy filler, walk 200 metres and you are at the Village Green.

Do the reverse on the way home.

How much easier could it get?

 

[Dave Beat]

^^^ The Plan for @dru for 9 Winter Saturdays:
Get to East Balmain by bus, walk, dropped off, taxi etc. Ferry from East Balmain - Circular Quay then change there to the Manly Ferry. Have an ale or two at 4 Pines when you get off the Ferry at Manly. Stop in The Corso for a Kebab or some other tummy filler, walk 200 metres and you are at the Village Green.

Do the reverse on the way home.

How much easier could it get?

Great trip, Great Rugby, Great Part of the world, Great trip home.

 

[TOCC]

Payto an Panda reporting the Thursday night NRC game may be scrapped In favour of 2 televised weekend games on Saturday and Sunday afternoon, possibly tied in with the broadcast of the ITM Cup so they flow from one to the other.


Works better for those players who have weekday jobs and ensures there are no 4/5 day turnarounds. Given the NRL plans to increasingly use the Thursday night time slot from next year it probably makes sense to move.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Payto an Panda reporting the Thursday night NRC game may be scrapped In favour of 2 televised weekend games on Saturday and Sunday afternoon, possibly tied in with the broadcast of the ITM Cup so they flow from one to the other.


Works better for those players who have weekday jobs and ensures there are no 4/5 day turnarounds. Given the NRL plans to increasingly use the Thursday night time slot from next year it probably makes sense to move.

Getting two games televised is great. Actually think it will help the ratings as well.

 

[TOCC]

Depending on the draw, the afternoon game could flow into the Rugby Championship as well.

12:30 ITM Cup
3:30 NRC
5:30 All Blacks home game
7:30 Wallabies home game

Or even

3:30 ITM Cup
5:30 NRC
7:30 Wallabies home game

Could help get a few extra viewers leading into a test match.


Sunday's are pretty straightforward:
ITM Cup- 12:30
ITM Cup- 2:30
NRC -4:30

 

[AussieDominance]

Dave, fwiw, I'm looking for an NRC team now that Stars have been dumped. I would have become a SS team follower some years back if I had felt welcomed. But I'm not a local old boy. Sorry but those SS teams dont feel inviting. (No I didnt try Manly but they didnt chase me either, ok I live in Balmain. But how the hell am I meant to know good guys?)

A couple of Rams guys have said, hey join us! Love it. Very tempted. But my natural inclination after Stars are dumped is to revert to my State of Origin.

But I am not just saying that Im impressed with Manly, I'm wondering if I can be a Rays fan. Hmm maybe even Marlins.

Dont know where I am going, but believe me, I am watching and thinking.

Always welcome at Gordon in fact come visit a great community club re build from the depths.

Chatswood Oval - Season 2016