Ideas for NRC

[Train Without a Station]

Way to through a cat amongst the pigeons on a Monday Morning.



Who funded the Risings stake in the NRC?
Who funded or better still who funded Perth Spirit's steak in the NRC?

Asking these questions because media tells me the ARU has provided significant help over recent times, plus the Premier Clubs in QLD & NSW continue to provide significant player help.

This is such a disingenuous comment. It ignores the fact that over the years the clubs have been paid millions, for no revenue return.

The Force was funded $800k (I think individual clubs received more since 2003) and the Rebels were kept alive to find a private buyer, but they bring in revenue.

Take out the Force and the Rebels and that $50M in TV money is now $34M.

What revenue implications would the loss of Shute Shield clubs result in?

Your comment implies that if the ARU has provided any funds to the Force and the Rebels, they should do so to the clubs, but ignores that these are entities which based on current funding will provide greater revenue than funding going forward.

If you don't want to be in the NRC, then don't. You aren't forced to. Eastwood decline.

The clubs choose to because it's in their interests to be involved.

 

[Dave Beat]

This is such a disingenuous comment. It ignores the fact that over the years the clubs have been paid millions, for no revenue return.

The Force was funded $800k (I think individual clubs received more since 2003) and the Rebels were kept alive to find a private buyer, but they bring in revenue.

Take out the Force and the Rebels and that $50M in TV money is now $34M.

What revenue implications would the loss of Shute Shield clubs result in?

Your comment implies that if the ARU has provided any funds to the Force and the Rebels, they should do so to the clubs, but ignores that these are entities which based on current funding will provide greater revenue than funding going forward.

I added the following after you replied;


I'm not saying for one minute cash should be simply given.

I have said on another thread - that the premier clubs in all states should be receiving grants based on various performance measures that result in a better return for the ARU - that is growth of game.

You seem to have one dimension in your thoughts and business sense, lets grow the game broadly. Not sure that you will find a post of mine that is critical of the ARU, but i have provided idea's.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Clubs in Sydney are struggling to keep going and the aru are directly responsible

They could try not spending so much money?

The sort of thing the rest of us have to do.

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[WorkingClassRugger]

Ok technically it is the stopping of grants but it was seen asa a tax or refund by the clubs that would stop when the new deal came in
It's around $100,000 per club
Clubs in Sydney are struggling to keep going and the aru are directly responsible
Therefore it's not out of pettiness that this MAY be done
Again this is all conjecture and could all be a few people talking cr@p after a few beers

How could be a tax if they are granted the money by the ARU? Sounds more like welfare to me.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

If this were to occur I would love for the ARU ahead and say 'No problem. But we've decided that the NRC really needs to run for two full rounds. All players with ambition to play Super Rugby will need to participate in the NRC. Additionally, we're doing away with the old outdated districts system at age grade level. From now on we're adopting the JGC structure.'

 

[Dave Beat]

They could try not spending so much money?

The sort of thing the rest of us have to do.

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This isnt my comment - but an idea, and would no doubt require work.

Sadly the attitude of the ARU drives my thoughts more toward the UK model where players are first contracted to their club, and need to be released (for a fee?) to the national body. If clubs contracted Colts players while developing them, the 'boot could end up on the other foot'.

 

[Dave Beat]

The clubs choose to because it's in their interests to be involved.

That's a very bold statement, you must have some very good contacts.

Maybe the clubs chose other things as well because of what the ARU said, or didn't say about their financial involvement going forward (communication that I only read about with no concrete proof).

 

[Train Without a Station]

This isnt my comment - but an idea, and would no doubt require work.

Sadly the attitude of the ARU drives my thoughts more toward the UK model where players are first contracted to their club, and need to be released (for a fee?) to the national body. If clubs contracted Colts players while developing them, the 'boot could end up on the other foot'.

No it wouldn't. Because players play at that level generally in a quest to play at a higher level. They are not going to agree to any barrier to their progression, especially for what would amount to very little.

And as for your other comment, if it's not in the club's interest to be part of the NRC, why are they doing it? Just out of the good of their own hearts?

 

[Dave Beat]

No it wouldn't. Because players play at that level generally in a quest to play at a higher level. They are not going to agree to any barrier to their progression, especially for what would amount to very little.

I had similar thoughts to that as well, and would get to messy for my head.

And as for your other comment, if it's not in the club's interest to be part of the NRC, why are they doing it? Just out of the good of their own hearts?

Well the ARU had the plan, communicated it, asked them to stick in cash.
Then after that the goal posts appear to have moved a little, or allot, seasons shortened and various other items that have already been brought up on here.

 

[GunnerDownUnder]

They could try not spending so much money?

The sort of thing the rest of us have to do.

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Do the rest of you provide 70% of Australian super rugby players?

 

[GunnerDownUnder]

If this were to occur I would love for the ARU ahead and say 'No problem. But we've decided that the NRC really needs to run for two full rounds. All players with ambition to play Super Rugby will need to participate in the NRC. Additionally, we're doing away with the old outdated districts system at age grade level. From now on we're adopting the JGC structure.'

Not sure on numbers but where will you find the players I the Shute shield is gone? As earlier around 70% of players in super rugby come from ss I am guessing it must be around 50% in NRC
The way it's heading premier club rugby in all states will be at a level similar to the dewer
Is this good for Australian rugby?

 

[Train Without a Station]

Again, disingenuous comment based on historical fact.

Refer to my article here where I researched the history of all Super Rugby players in January 2015:

http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/01/22/rugby-players-come/

The vast majority of Super Rugby players came through state shoolboys, aus schoolboys, state U20s and Aus U20s pathways and go almost immediately into professional systems, debuting quickly.

It's about a quarter that spend a significant amount of time in the club systems. Not many more than we get from overseas systems and the NRL combined. I can only imagine as JGC players come through, this number will be lower due to the pool widening from State U20s.

 

[GunnerDownUnder]

The NRC should be the next level from club rugby
It should nurture and aid players in achieving the step up to super rugby and obtaining pro contracts
There are not enough teams to provide this without a strong clubs scene in all relevant states
Aru should be growing game and helping clubs ( yes even with hand outs if they are needed)
Not all players are discovered at school and can follow the age grades for the tahs or whomever
The wallabies needs a strong ss as do all super teams and NRC teams same with the qld Comp
As much as some people don't want to accept a strong Uni, wicks, Marlins etc means strong rugby in this country

 

[RugbyReg]

Call me naive but I would have thought the players would prefer to play in the competition that was part of the legitimate career path?

 

[TOCC]

Do the rest of you provide 70% of Australian super rugby players?

Funny, this is such a subjective stat, firstly QLD and ACT combined surely provide more the 30% of Australian Super Rugby player, and secondly many of these players that the Shute Shield claimed 'they provided' are players who have been groomed through schoolboy programs, junior rep teams, state and national U20's program and finally the NRC before they even pull on their Shute Shield jerseys. It seems to me the Shute Shield/QPR is no different in that it benefits by the development work done by other parties.

Shute Shield clubs benefit from the money invested into players to develop them into better players, it may not be direct funding but the clubs are benefiting indirectly through funding invested into the players.

it's fucken ridiculous that the Shute Shield and QPR have had 20years to develop a third tier that the broadcasters are interested in, and now that it has been achieved by the ARU, the clubs want to undermine it and create someone which will run in direct competition and dilute the talent, probably rendering both competitions unfeasible and ultimately unsustainable.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Not sure on numbers but where will you find the players I the Shute shield is gone? As earlier around 70% of players in super rugby come from ss I am guessing it must be around 50% in NRC
The way it's heading premier club rugby in all states will be at a level similar to the dewer
Is this good for Australian rugby?

Never said to get rid of the Shute Shield. This is about countering a if true deliberate power play. There are ways of course of developing and identifying talent. Again the JGC structure could be useful. The ARU could use it at the senior level. Players could trial in their zones. The zones being North-West, West, North and South Sydney plus say Illawarra and Hunter. Similar in Queensland. Run a 10 week season and select your players from there.

 

[TOCC]

Call me naive but I would have thought the players would prefer to play in the competition that was part of the legitimate career path?

Well therein lies the problem, if the Waratahs haven't identified or committed to the NRC as a legitimate career path then why should the players.

Waratahs need to commit to the NRC to fight off this craziness and boost the NSW based NRC teams prospects.


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[Dave Beat]

To much bitching here for a Monday Morning - bye.
Premier Rugby is great and can play a very important role
NRC is still in its infancy and has direction.
Super - oooops this is an NRC thread.

Bye Bye

 

[TOCC]

How many players in the current NSW U20's squad have played Shute Shield? I'd imagine a fair chunk are yet to play in the Shute Shield or if they have, its only been a handful of appearances.

ARU/Super Rugby clubs are providing funding, training and resources for 35-40 of the best players U20's players in each state, once the Super Rugby U20's season is over these players will be available for the respective premier clubs, is this not an investment in Premier Rugby?

 

[Dave Beat]

How many players in the current NSW U20's squad have played Shute Shield? I'd imagine a fair chunk are yet to play in the Shute Shield or if they have, its only been a handful of appearances.

ARU/Super Rugby clubs are providing funding, training and resources for 35-40 of the best players U20's players in each state, once the Super Rugby U20's season is over these players will be available for the respective premier clubs, is this not an investment in Premier Rugby?

Well Manly's 2013 Colt side that had a number of NSW & Aust players - they all played in the Manly Colts SS side, and alot of them came up through the Manly Village clubs.
Shit - said bye to this thread - "have to ignore"