Ideas for NRC

[Jagman]

If we're cutting back on NSW teams it's definitely far too early to start adding teams from outside of the Super Rugby territories.....

Why? It's cutting back to 8 rather than 7 which is what most teams want. It's the politics in NSW that make the 8 team ARC model impossible. And that's historically proven.

You don't think the Adelaide team could get a crowd as big as the stars in Leichhardt? I went to a game along with maybe 20 other people who were just fans and not affiliated with the team. And some of them were cheering for Brisbane city.

The Sydney teams need to be of higher quality and they need the media outreach of the Waratahs.


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[Slim 293]

Until the quality of the depth improves greatly in the existing teams, and Adelaide are able to produce some of their own players, then there's no chance of starting a team there without diluting the quality of the competition............

And yes, I also doubt Adelaide's ability to generate decent regular crowds for an NRC team........

I think we're a long way of expanding any of these current competitions into non-rugby areas such as Adelaid, and before that we'd be better off adding teams in already established areas (NSW and ACT).

 

[kiap]

You don't think the Adelaide team could get a crowd as big as the stars in Leichhardt?

Be great to see it happen.

Will still come down to the money for any 8th team (... whether it be in NSW or especially in Adelaide). I reckon it might need $500k-$1m per year for Adelaide and the team would make a loss for multiple years.

If there's a sugar-daddy rugby philanthropist and some sponsors willing to throw that cash into the tin to have rugby in S.A. then sign them up.

That's not exactly HUGE money for a sports team ... but still, in the current climate it might prove hard to find.

 

[Jagman]

Firstly to Slim. Did the 2007 ARC Melbourne Rebels have a Super Rugby team? And how did they go? How many locals did they use? The Adelaide team would be made up almost completely of imports from Force, Brumbies, Rebels as well as QPR and Shute (plus all those Quanbeyan players the Vikings reject
Pulver has said he's interested. The longer you leave it the longer you have to wait for the benefits, that being a pathway to professional rugby in Adelaide and who knows the comp might get some traction if it's truly national and of a high quality and promoted by all Super Rugby teams.

Kiap, the Adelaide (black hawks?) team put in a very impressive bid, according to Pulver. My feeling was that the ARU couldn't afford the financial risk as they were heading to insolvency in 2014. Now they have more money and no longer payroll the Rebels. Which would surely cover the cost of an Adelaide team. Any way it sounded like Adelaide brought something serious to the table.

The NSW teams should be the Western Rams and Coastal Rays. Both teams representing Sydney and NSW.


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[Slim 293]

You can't compare Adelaide to a city with a far greater rugby tradition in a competition format that was canned after one season................

We can't have another team based completely on imports in a city that doesn't have enough interest in the sport.........

In my opinion there really shouldn't be any expansion until we're at a point where quality players are unable to crack a NRC XV..........

In the meantime, the idea of exhibition matches between NRC teams and any prospective cities should be explored by the ARU.

 

[Jagman]

According to page 12 of the NRC Crowd Watch the Rams vs Spirit game in 2014 got a crowd of 2,200. And that was in....... Adelaide. The Stars could only dream of such a crowd.


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[Slim 293]

According to page 12 of the NRC Crowd Watch the Rams vs Spirit game in 2014 got a crowd of 2,200. And that was in... Adelaide. The Stars could only dream of such a crowd.


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That's just one game though...............

 

[Jagman]

One game without a team to follow.


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[Slim 293]

Yeah, one off special games tend to draw larger crowds...............

If they had regular games they might only get a small fraction of that...........

It's no way an indication that Adelaide would provide good support for a team.

 

[TOCC]

The 2007 ARC Melbourne Rebels were a major reason that the tournament was scrapped, the loss accrued by the Rebels was significant and the ARU had guaranteed to cover their debt, the overall financial burden(in a large part due to the Rebels) was the driving reason for the tournament to be scrapped.

Adelaide is just a bridge too far at this stage, until the tournament is getting broadcast regularly and greater marketing expenditure, any expansion into Adelaide would fail to generate the returns you would need to justify it.

If you spend $1million per season to host a team in Adelaide, yet you only get 2'000 people to each game, have the costs been justified? If no one in the city knows that the team is playing, there is little point spending all that money to base them there.

 

[Jagman]

The 2007 ARC Melbourne Rebels were a major reason that the tournament was scrapped, the loss accrued by the Rebels was significant and the ARU had guaranteed to cover their debt, the overall financial burden(in a large part due to the Rebels) was the driving reason for the tournament to be scrapped.

I thought that was just JON's excuse for scrapping it. When really he was brought back by those who preferred the Shute shield to destroy the ARC.


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[Cpt Crow Eater]

We can't have another team based completely on imports in a city that doesn't have enough interest in the sport...

 

[TOCC]

On the contrary Crow Eater, i think there is genuine interest in Adelaide but the interest isn't sufficient to justify the expenditure required to base a team there. Again, the problem is that if you spend the $1million to base a team there during the NRC, you then need to be able to justify that costs with crowd attendance, because that's the only means of getting exposure.

Lets say tickets are $20 each, this is the season total you would get for averaging the following crowds:
2'000/game= $160'000
4'000/game==$320'000
6'000/game= $480'000
8'000/game= $720'000
10'000/game= :$880'000

*Match day expenses would then take around 1/3 of the gate takings.

Until more games are broadcast which will generate further exposure, and until more sponsors are interested due to this added exposure, the cost of placing a team in Adelaide just doesn't make financial sense until overall interest in the tournament grows. Unfortunately for Adelaide, the single biggest cost and liability that other teams don't have is the cost of relocating players, coaches and staff for the duration of the tournament.

 

[Cpt Crow Eater]

My two cents....

As a crow eater, I am unashamedly biased towards wanting to watch good rugby in my home town.

I agree that the financials make it difficult for this to happen just yet.

That being said, if the Governing bodies are thinking about reducing teams, it makes sense to make a plan now, make all the changes together and move forward with marketing etc.

We need to decide what we want from this comp. Do we want to develop a very tough comp to develop talent for Super Rugby? If so, have less teams and make sure the quality is good.

Do we also want to give rugby a national presence in Australia with the aim that these teams will also become competitive once players have been in the professional set ups for a few years? If so then it is imperative to have a plan to include the whole country. Otherwise lets change the name of the NRC and call it the 'NSW QLD CUP' since apparently that's where all the players are form anyway and everything else is a lost cause.

People use the word 'expansion' like we're talking about Super Rugby chasing money.
This is about giving the game a national presence and providing pathways for all players in Australia, not just those from areas with Soup teams.....

 

[Jagman]

Yeah, one off special games tend to draw larger crowds.....

If they had regular games they might only get a small fraction of that.....

It's no way an indication that Adelaide would provide good support for a team.

I don't see how it's "no way" an indication. It's a pretty impressive figure for a comp that was 3 weeks old at the time in a city with no supporters. I know about 5 people in Adelaide and one of them likes NRL and would have loved to have gone to that game just to see something where the ball is passed backwards.


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[Cpt Crow Eater]

On the contrary Crow Eater, i think there is genuine interest in Adelaide but the interest isn't sufficient to justify the expenditure required to base a team there. Again, the problem is that if you spend the $1million to base a team there during the NRC, you then need to be able to justify that costs with crowd attendance, because that's the only means of getting exposure.

Lets say tickets are $20 each, this is the season total you would get for averaging the following crowds:
2'000/game= $160'000
4'000/game==$320'000
6'000/game= $480'000
8'000/game= $720'000
10'000/game= :$880'000

*Match day expenses would then take around 1/3 of the gate takings.

Until more games are broadcast which will generate further exposure, and until more sponsors are interested due to this added exposure, the cost of placing a team in Adelaide just doesn't make financial sense until overall interest in the tournament grows.

Agree with this. I want desperately for a team here. Really.

i also understand that a broke ARU does nothing for the game.

I hope with a few good broadcast deals under their belt, we will get a team eventually......

Would love to see how some of our players would go given professional systems in place, gym, nutrition, skills plans etc.....

 

[TOCC]

We need to decide what we want from this comp. Do we want to develop a very tough comp to develop talent for Super Rugby? If so, have less teams and make sure the quality is good.

Do we also want to give rugby a national presence in Australia with the aim that these teams will also become competitive once players have been in the professional set ups for a few years? If so then it is imperative to have a plan to include the whole country. Otherwise lets change the name of the NRC and call it the 'NSW QLD CUP' since apparently that's where all the players are form anyway and everything else is a lost cause.

I for one hope it can fill both those gaps, I think in the short term(next 2 years) the aim should be to consolidate the tournament further, allow teams to develop a depth and understanding of whats required to compete at this level, fix some of the glaring issues(like competitiveness), and once the teams are all competing at a similar level then look to expand the national footprint.

These first 2 years have identified some issues and have had some teething issues, i think there needs to be another few years of consolidation before expanding. In 2018, if all the teams are on a firm financial footing and competing well, then look at introducing an extra team.

But any expansion needs to be done slow, look what happened to the A-league when they tried to rush their expansion.

 

[kiap]

Kiap, the Adelaide (black hawks?) team put in a very impressive bid, according to Pulver. My feeling was that the ARU couldn't afford the financial risk as they were heading to insolvency in 2014. Now they have more money and no longer payroll the Rebels. Which would surely cover the cost of an Adelaide team. Any way it sounded like Adelaide brought something serious to the table.

Look, I'd be keen to see it.

(probably not as peachy keen as Crowie, but that's understandable)

If they brought something serious to the table, then great: let them do it again now. But by serious, it's gotta be more than glossy brochures of how they're going to spend money, they've gotta get partners on board that are going to bring money. Not just for one year, but at least two, preferably three years.

If they do that, then give them a team.

 

[Dave Beat]

I don't see how it's "no way" an indication. It's a pretty impressive figure for a comp that was 3 weeks old at the time in a city with no supporters. I know about 5 people in Adelaide and one of them likes NRL and would have loved to have gone to that game just to see something where the ball is passed backwards.


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Jag an you raise some very good and strong points above.
There are some great reasons to, and also some reason that cause hesitation and that all comes down to planning and development.
I don't like it that Super teams take from QPR and Shute and don't give back - well that maybe a bit harsh, don't allow the players back.
I am also aware the SA does have a number of good players out there currently playing high class rugby - few of them have come to Manly over the years. So I don't bury my head in the sand and say not strong enough.

One of the reasons I like the idea is it will create development in SA at grass roots levels for the super teams to look at. In fact I'd like to see the NRC be more that than these professional Super Teams having their players play in the NRC in the offseason.Rebels are a perfect example I'd like to see more Dewer players developing in the NRC rather that playing a Super team.

Fat fingers on I pad - excuse grammar and spelling

 

[Highlander35]

You're not wrong Dave, but with the exception of props (Recruiting first Duncan Chubb and then when Tim Metcher was injured, Tom Moloney), we were already much better in 2015 compared to 2014.

Aside from Placid and the starting halves, most of the backs were Dewar Boys.

Plus Murray Douglas, Pom Simona, Fereti Sa'aga and the Hooker who's name escapes me ATM were regulars in the forward pack, along with this year's Vic U20 hooker Jordan Uelese making his debut.

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