Hurricanes v Reds Sat 23rd April

[TSR]

Yep, poor blighter is down to his last 50 billion or so.

He can obviously pay for it 10 times over, but that doesn’t mean he wants to or we should expect him to.

 

[DELETE ACCOUNT]

Private equity is one answer.

Hhhahahahah another one ready to sell their soul to the devil

 

[RugbyReg]

Hhhahahahah another one ready to sell their soul to the devil

player agents?

 

[DELETE ACCOUNT]

player agents?

No
To the private equity firms

 

[todd4]

He can obviously pay for it 10 times over, but that doesn’t mean he wants to or we should expect him to.

Forrest, who spoke with Cron before his appointment, said the 46-year-old’s job was to help build the club into a “true powerhouse in world rugby”.

Cron to become new coach of Western Force

Simon Cron was once considered a Waratahs coach-in-waiting but after three years in Japan, the former Norths mentor is headed to Perth to coach the Force instead.

www.smh.com.au

If we are going to discuss this here I'll just say if Twiggy's aim is to make the Force a true powerhouse in world rugby he will need to splash the cash and do it outside of the salary cap, otherwise these are just hollow words. He'll need to spend money like the rich clubs in Europe and Japan do. For that to happen he'll need the blessing of the ARU.

 

[TSR]

Despite popular opinion not every sporting club is a money pit - from everything I’ve read Twiggy wants the Force to be a well run business. Every well run sporting club business includes some level of sponsorship, so he’ll no doubt reach into his pockets - but I don’t think we should assume he will just burn cash.

However my point was not so much as to whether he would be prepared to pump prime the Force as I assume he would be - but I am not convinced he is prepared to bankroll super rugby wages more broadly which seemed to be the suggestion.

He has had regular talks to RA though - so maybe I’m wrong.

 

[Derpus]

Despite popular opinion not every sporting club is a money pit - from everything I’ve read Twiggy wants the Force to be a well run business. Every well run sporting club business includes some level of sponsorship, so he’ll no doubt reach into his pockets - but I don’t think we should assume he will just burn cash.

However my point was not so much as to whether he would be prepared to pump prime the Force as I assume he would be - but I am not convinced he is prepared to bankroll super rugby wages more broadly which seemed to be the suggestion.

He has had regular talks to Rugby Australia though - so maybe I’m wrong.

I thought most of the clubs pushing up global salaries were running at a loss? Surely many of the Japanese clubs are, at the very least.

 

[todd4]

He reportedly offered the ARU $50m not to dump the Force so he is prepared to open his wallet. I'd be happy if he was allowed to spend over the salary cap to bring some of the best AUS players home.

 

[TSR]

To be clear - I’d be ecstatic if he’d do that.

 

[Dan54]

He reportedly offered the ARU $50m not to dump the Force so he is prepared to open his wallet. I'd be happy if he was allowed to spend over the salary cap to bring some of the best AUS players home.

Would be good, but wasn't that $50mill a bit of an furphy, and came with so many strings attached, he knew it wouldn't/couldn't be accepted.
Much as I would like it if all the dreams that Twiggy is prepared to be saviour of WA rugby etc I don't think he made his money by handing it over and get nothing out of it.

 

[liquor box]

Not sure how Twiggy will feel about it though.

We are probably already being a bit presumptuous too assume Twiggy will dip into the coffers to help address the talent gap for the Force. Expecting him to stump up further for the rest of the comp might be a step too far.

He would only "stump up for the rest of the competition" if he chooses to outspend the other teams by a significant margin.

It then just becomes a cost of doing business, a high salary player may get $1m a season but it may cost the club $1.1m and they give $25k to the other teams as a penalty for breaking the salary cap.

 

[todd4]

Would be good, but wasn't that $50mill a bit of an furphy, and came with so many strings attached, he knew it wouldn't/couldn't be accepted.
Much as I would like it if all the dreams that Twiggy is prepared to be saviour of WA rugby etc I don't think he made his money by handing it over and get nothing out of it.

TBH, I'm not sure of the detail with the $50m offer.
In WA the sporting scene is dominated by AFL. To take a team playing a minor sport in one of the most isolated cities in the world and wanting to turn them into a "true powerhouse in world rugby" will take a lot more than a warm handshake and good intentions. As a Force fan I would love for this to happen but the reality is we will always struggle to match east coast teams unless there is real financial incentive for the best players to want to move west.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Mate I watched Super rugby from beginning, it was an incredibly popular and well supported comp, and I heard absolutely noone say it was a rubbish business model etc, and I went to games all the time where grounds were full, the comp got ruined by expansion etc.
If full grounds and great tv ratings are not what end customers want, and not a good business model, I got no idea what is, and bet you don't either.
If it is a rubbish model now , perhaps look what was changed from when it was an extremely popular and competitive competition, when it helped both NZ and Australia produce top test teams to further promote the game in both countries.
Then the greed set in, countries wanted more teams,( instead of building structures below to strengthen game). I lived in Australia from 97-2020, and I and most Aus rugby folk I talk with were begging almost for decent pathways in Aus whether through NRC type thing or a top club comp with Sydney, Bris clubs etc.

( and for Drew I only replied in this thread because RN quoted me and it is polite to respond)

Mate the sporting world is a different place to 20 years ago and league and afl have expanded, evolved and developed their product.

Banging on about how great super rugby was 20 years ago is not helpful as footy codes have expanded their footprint as well as very successfully at a grass roots level (afl in private schools etc). The super rugby product in comparison has failed to evolve to meet the changing competitive environment as well as what customers want from todays product cf competing options.

The super rugby product is a flawed product today that does not have fan appeal for oz audiences beyond kiwi ex pats and the rusted on. It is at a stage of evolve or die (which some would say oz super rugby on the operating table gIven lack of fan interest).

oz rugby needed to expand in face of league and afl expanded footprint but yes instead of investing in grass roots or domestic competition, invested in an expanded international super rugby product no one interested in. Oz rugby needs a bigger pro team footprint to be relevant against league, afl and soccer but it can’t do this with a super rugby product involving 5 nz teams with a closed shop. We have agreed oz rugby needs its own domestic competition but the opportunity to do this was when in early 2000s when had money. Now oz rugby is broke and reliant on a broken super rugby model.

unfortunately this gets circular as to how we solve it, and endless debates…but the evidence is clear the model is broken from oz super rugby persecutive as crowds are embarrassing and left to kiwi ex pats outstripping now oz fans at games in oz between kiwi and oz sides. Yet people want to say it is only week 1 yet why would anything be different from seasons past as we have not addressed the elephant in the room in that five oz sides cannot compete against 5 kiwi sides in a closed shop competition.

ps. I now need to retire and end this discussion.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

it can’t do this with a super rugby product involving 5 nz teams with a closed shop.

Now oz rugby is broke and reliant on a broken super rugby model.

five oz sides cannot compete against 5 kiwi sides in a closed shop competition.

 

[dru]

A TT comp with Aus teams boiled down in the "shrink to greatness" mould kills Aus professional rugby. The only way this can be missed is a Kiwi-centric "don't give a fuck" position.

 

[pissedoffihavetoregister]

Regarding the match vs the big picture - The reds backs are not that threatening in attack. i think the canes played paisami really well. He isn't that big (hence canes gave him some space ) and loves to dummy and go himself. He did that all game and he rarely set up the wingers. It made it very predictable. He needs to change or they find need to find someone with more variety.

 

[Dan54]

A TT comp with Aus teams boiled down in the "shrink to greatness" mould kills Aus professional rugby. The only way this can be missed is a Kiwi-centric "don't give a fuck" position.

I don't know anyone in NZ who has ever said they don't give a f*** about Aus rugby and it's struggle. I have no doubt there are a few, same as there are some in Aus (read this forum) who don't give a f*** about kiwi rugby. But no proper rugby person/fan from either country thinks that.
And I would add, go to places like Silver Fern and there is none there, nothing like the we hate the NZR stuff etc we se here. I can't recall seeing it on PR etc etc either really, and there is some nutters there.

 

[dru]

I don't know anyone in NZ who has ever said they don't give a f*** about Aus rugby and it's struggle. I have no doubt there are a few, same as there are some in Aus (read this forum) who don't give a f*** about kiwi rugby. But no proper rugby person/fan from either country thinks that.
And I would add, go to places like Silver Fern and there is none there, nothing like the we hate the NZR stuff etc we se here. I can't recall seeing it on PR etc etc either really, and there is some nutters there.

Never judge by talk, judge by action.

 

[DELETE ACCOUNT]

Mate the sporting world is a different place to 20 years ago and league and afl have expanded, evolved and developed their product.

Banging on about how great super rugby was 20 years ago is not helpful as footy codes have expanded their footprint as well as very successfully at a grass roots level (afl in private schools etc). The super rugby product in comparison has failed to evolve to meet the changing competitive environment as well as what customers want from todays product cf competing options.

The super rugby product is a flawed product today that does not have fan appeal for oz audiences beyond kiwi ex pats and the rusted on. It is at a stage of evolve or die (which some would say oz super rugby on the operating table gIven lack of fan interest).

oz rugby needed to expand in face of league and afl expanded footprint but yes instead of investing in grass roots or domestic competition, invested in an expanded international super rugby product no one interested in. Oz rugby needs a bigger pro team footprint to be relevant against league, afl and soccer but it can’t do this with a super rugby product involving 5 nz teams with a closed shop. We have agreed oz rugby needs its own domestic competition but the opportunity to do this was when in early 2000s when had money. Now oz rugby is broke and reliant on a broken super rugby model.

unfortunately this gets circular as to how we solve it, and endless debates…but the evidence is clear the model is broken from oz super rugby persecutive as crowds are embarrassing and left to kiwi ex pats outstripping now oz fans at games in oz between kiwi and oz sides. Yet people want to say it is only week 1 yet why would anything be different from seasons past as we have not addressed the elephant in the room in that five oz sides cannot compete against 5 kiwi sides in a closed shop competition.

ps. I now need to retire and end this discussion.

Every great structure in the world has a well built solid foundation. This is then used to install more layers upon.

For some reason RA went down a path (with SANZAR) to try and change the model and focussed on the top tiers and ignored the foundation.

Proof is in the crowd numbers in Bris and Syd - Super games the lowest we have seen while at clubland the numbers are growing and higher then ever.

The best managers and pundits would take a leaf out of Dr Julius Sumner-Miller and ask "Why is the so?"

IMHO opinion here are a couple of points-:
1. Cost - don't have to rob fort knox at clubland for entry, drinks and food.
2. Experience - Super rugby is isolating players away from the punters.
3. Tribalism - Local clubs are something people can associate with. Mateship and camaraderie go a long way.
4. Opportunity - players can join, train and be rewarded for their efforts at clubland. It is not a closed shop.

My suggestion is if you want a great higher level in 5 years time then do the work on the lower levels now.

 

[Marce]

If we are going to discuss this here I'll just say if Twiggy's aim is to make the Force a true powerhouse in world rugby he will need to splash the cash and do it outside of the salary cap, otherwise these are just hollow words. He'll need to spend money like the rich clubs in Europe and Japan do. For that to happen he'll need the blessing of the ARU.

To sum up?

If Twiggy is going to invest a hell of money the best way for RA would be to signs all Aussies overseas. That would be a HUGE impact for the national team.

Skelton, Arnold, Coleman, Kerevi, QC (Quade Cooper), McMahon, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), Tom Banks, Koroibete. But Im just dreaming...