How to play Prop when the Ref isn't watching

[TheKing]

I moved to the front row for the first time this year, and in googling how to play the position was left wanting.

Sure, there were many basics available online, like keeping your shoulders above your hips when you engage. That was all well and good, but I always wanted more...

I'm looking to find downright sneaky, pushing-the-boundaries-of-cheating techniques I can use to gain a very unfair advantage over less experienced (and even experienced props). Ideally, this advice should be utilised only when the Ref is't watching.

One such technique I found was for the LH Prop. When engaging, bind as close to the TH's hips as you can. As the wrestle commences, using your left hand, drag the Tighthead's butt out of alignment with his legs, so he is driving you in a sideways position - minimising the power he can use, pulling him off-balance, and negating the second rowers shove. It's very difficult for a Tighthead prop to pop the Loosehead when his arse is hanging out the side of the scrum.

Anything in the vein of the above would be appreciated

 

[Hugh Jarse]

1. Get a hold of Topo's book. (link below)

2. Read this thread. http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/community/threads/scrum-talk.4363/

http://www.taluebookstore.com/featured/the-art-of-scrummaging.html

Has anyone read Topo Rodriguez book "The art of scrummaging"?

Is it worth buying? Is it useful for a junior village club coach, subbies park level coach, 1st XV schoolboy, village club battler, Colt or Grade Player or all of the above?

 

[TheKing]

Some insight from the Guardian Newspaper leading up to the 2003 World Cup. Not totally specific to the front row, but not too bad

Pulling down
At any scrum, but especially early ones, watch the side on which the referee isn't standing. Very likely the defending side's prop outer hand isn't gripping, as required, on the back of his opponent's jersey, but on the upper arm. The tell-tale sign is his own elbow pointing down to the ground. The scrum collapses - "accidentally". And the scrummage penalty-lottery could even see the opposition being blamed.
Punching
Yes, rugby players punch. With the centre of the scrum shielded from everyone's view, the opportunity arises for a quick bop of your opposite number. The easiest way to spot that a punch is about to be thrown is when a shoulder or arm is dropped in preparation. This doesn't necessarily mean there will be a blow coming but, then again, you can't swing at someone when you're holding on to a team-mate.
Pulling forward
Just before the ball is put in, the front row can pull the opposing pack towards them, thus creating the illusion that they are driving before the ball is played. The "offenders" are then penalised with a free kick awarded against them.
Fake charge
An old trick is to feign going into the scrum before the ball is put in, stop sharply and then pull back as a unit. This way the opposition's natural reaction is to go in as well and they can then be pulled up for charging. Sneaky and highly effective.
Sledging
In the pressure cooker of a scrum, powerful, passionate men come cheek-to-cheek. It's safe to say they are not exchanging sweet nothings. Brian Moore and Mickey Skinner were famous for their uncompromising views, on the French in particular; views that they were happy to share with their Gallic opponents when going head to head in a scrum.
Wheel and shoe
This is a canny way of dealing with strong driving packs. The Argentinians, probably one of the most powerful scrummaging units in the world, use a technique called the 'bajada' where they would hit hard and drive forward. 'To counter it,' says Probyn, 'we would deliberately wheel them [spin the scrum round] quickly which would make them fall over, then we'd drive over the top. We called that the 'Wheel and Shoe'. All perfectly legal of course.'
Feeding
The scrummage is a dark, strange and foreboding chamber of dirty secrets. Feeding is a classic tactic of gamesmanship. Referees have recently been reminded that the scrum put-in is supposed to be dead straight. But who's going to quibble over a slight angle? Scrum-halves will always "push the envelope". The flip side of this is that, with an exclamation or even just a sharp indrawing of breath in the ref's ear, the opposition scrum-half, even for a dead-centre ball, can appeal for a crooked feed, and often get the call.
Collapsing
Immediately having hooked the ball one - particularly Australian - ploy was to then collapse the front row. This would be done to stop any attempt by the opposition to drive and allow their back row to fan out and join the attack. The laws once allowed for this common ploy, but today it's a lucky pack that gets away with it.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

There's another option out there. It's called beating your opponent physically. In my experience only the guys incapable of competing physically looked to the "tricks" of the trade.

I personally hate tactics that add to the possible dangers that can be involved at scrum time. Sure, you do use tactics in terms of applying weight or twisting through the push but attempting to de-stablise an opponent would if I were that opponent will likely have you copping a smack across the chops for your efforts.

Concentrate on your technique. Strengthen your core and you should be fine without the need to collapse, slip your bind and/or put both you and your opponent in potentially compromising position.

Oh, and the tactic of trying to bind at the hip isn't as easy as you nake think, especially if your opposing has a bit of experience behind him and it actually will leave you open to a sly punch at scrum time.

 

[TheKing]

There's another option out there. It's called beating your opponent physically. In my experience only the guys incapable of competing physically looked to the "tricks" of the trade.

Martin Gastrogiavanni had a reputation for being the most cunning and wily prop in the game because of his ability to disrupt opposition scrums using the "tricks of the trade".

I personally don't see any problem with putting the information out there to foster some competitiveness in the front row, especially in Australia where part of our national sporting identity is an inability to scrum..

 

[Bairdy]

Some insight from the Guardian Newspaper leading up to the 2003 World Cup. Not totally specific to the front row, but not too bad

.........

Collapsing
Immediately having hooked the ball one - particularly Australian - ploy was to then collapse the front row. This would be done to stop any attempt by the opposition to drive and allow their back row to fan out and join the attack. The laws once allowed for this common ploy, but today it's a lucky pack that gets away with it.

Ha, reminds me of Nick Mallett's comments after the Johannesburg test, where he compared the scrum contest in both TRC tests.

In essence, he said that the All Blacks were willing to scrummage, and we [Australia] would look to employ illegal tactics to nullify the superior Argentinian scrum.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Martin Gastrogiavanni had a reputation for being the most cunning and wily prop in the game because of his ability to disrupt opposition scrums using the "tricks of the trade".

I personally don't see any problem with putting the information out there to foster some competitiveness in the front row, especially in Australia where part of our national sporting identity is an inability to scrum..

It's that attitude that perpetuates our apparent inability to scrummage. You'll note that I said that shifting the position of where weight is applied and twisting through the push are fine. It's part of the game in that position. But using tactics that could put at the very least your opponent in a potentially dangerously compromising position is irresponsible and should be rewarded with a red card on the spot.

Castrogianvanni is also and exceptionally powerful scrummager who if you watch carefully is a master at shifting his weight and the weight behind him to pressure his opposite, or subtlely twisting through the push to focus the pressure in between the opposing prop and the hooker. He shouldn't need to employ tactics to destabilize the base stability of his opposing by trying to pull his hips out of alignment. If he does, then I'll rate him much less in future.

It's the reason I hate both Ben Alexander and Tony Woodcock when it comes to scrummaging. Both look to employ these tactics regularly. Corbisero did similar in the Lions tour come to think of it.

Good props can dominate without the need to play unnecessary games.

Instead of looking to find shortcuts, you should work on a few things.

First, your setup. The basics. Positioning of your feet, find a stance (I always found just wider the shoulders the most optimal) that allows you to bend through the hips and generate the most power. Second, squats and lots of them. Good all round workout but immensely useful in terms of scrummaging. Third and final, attitude. Take a aggressive attitude to the setup and engagement.

To the three things above and you won't need tricks and devices.

 

[TheKing]

@WorkingClassRugger any tips to a young prop like myself on how to manipulate their weight in the most effective way?
I just found this online - In the simplest terms possible tightheads are locked in tightly and looseheads try to gain advantage by getting under or around them to apply pressure. Looseheads are trying to bow their opponents spine in a vertical or horizontal plane. Looseheads pop a hand on the ground to help them get lower so they can get under a tighthead and then drive in an upward vector on them.
Looseheads also have a freedom of movement that makes it easier for them to angle their drive in, the aim here is to bow the tighthead horizontally and take away his ability to transfer power.
Tightheads, since they bind over the loosehead gain advantage by driving in a downward vector – they want to prevent the loosehead getting under them and force their opponent to help hold them up.
They gain their strongest advantage over looseheads through torsion, if they can twist their opponent by lowering the looseheads left shoulder then that is a major gain.
If a loosehead is boring in and the referee is not calling it then the main counter from a tighthead is to move his entire pack two steps to his right – these are small steps – total movement will be less than a foot and that will bring the opposing loosehead square again. This move is also likely to pull their tighthead and hooker out of line. This takes practice as an eight but is the simplest counter to boring I ever learnt.