How good or bad was the EOYT?

[mark_s]

The EOYT has highlighted the main prob with the wallabies - mental lethargy. This team struggles to be up for each game and seems to rest on their laurels. We struggle to put teams away and lack composure when things aren't going our way. I am not confident we have the coaching staff to address this.

In hindsight, it was probably obvious that Deans would be able to teach these kids the rugby skills they need to win a test match as his credentials in this respect are excellent. However I think Deans is struggling with the Aus psyche and how to get these guys fired up and focussed for each game. I doubt this is an issue in NZ, or if it is, maybe there is a different solution for those guys. We have become like the French - capable of beating the best team in the world and also capable of losing to the worst team.

The coaching panel will need to change to address this, but I suspect Deans will survive that leave the asistants at risk.

There are other problems - Giteau isn't a 10 - its been proven beyond all doubt for me. Our lock depth is critically thin and our kicking in general play (including the chase) is very poor.

On the plus side, the raw materials are pretty much there and alot of the hardwork has been done regarding the scrums and rucks. We should be well placed for next year, provided we can get back the ruthless streak and take advantage of our opportunities.

 

[Pfitzy]

Won more than we lost. That's a pass mark, and compared to the shit we dished up against the ABs this year I'll take it.

Looking for a big S14 from at least two of our franchises, and then a powerful 2010.

 

[Lee Grant]

The EOYT has highlighted the main prob with the wallabies - mental lethargy. This team struggles to be up for each game and seems to rest on their laurels. We struggle to put teams away and lack composure when things aren't going our way. I am not confident we have the coaching staff to address this.

In hindsight, it was probably obvious that Deans would be able to teach these kids the rugby skills they need to win a test match as his credentials in this respect are excellent. However I think Deans is struggling with the Aus psyche and how to get these guys fired up and focussed for each game. I doubt this is an issue in NZ



We should be well placed for next year, provided we can get back the ruthless streak and take advantage of our opportunities.

I wish I had written that; in fact I probably have written a version of it but taken 5 times as many words.

As some may know: I spent about 8 years in NZ yonks ago in my youth from high school to Uni days. The coaching of junior players, even then, was severe compared to the easy going coaching Oz boys got and there was more emphasis on the basics of rugby and not so much on running with the ball, the focus for young Aussies.

There were two things that were drummed into us in NZ: tackling and the sanctity of the ball. To lose the ball was as bad as missing a tackle. If we lost the ball we were harangued by the coach to "Get our ball back," and nobody wanted to be guilty of such a crime.

I was in our schools 1st XV for 2 years and the only backline move our team had was passing the ball out to the wing and he executing a centre kick to the rest of the team chasing up the middle. In the very last play of my two years the move actually worked and we were all grinning at each other, scarcely crediting that it had come off.

But I digress - it was the basics that were drummed into us and if things went wrong we always had those basics to fall back on. There wasn't a lot of headless chook rugby even if we fell behind in the game. Kiwi guys who progressed to greater honours always seemed to have a belief in what they had been taught as youngsters.

I suspect that little has changed since those days. Many of our young fellows seem not to know the basics of the game and have to be taught too many things in Colts or Grade rugby. Some even get to the Super 14 level and are not really footie players. Too many times since the start of Super rugby have we seen players who still cut themselves shaving yet are learning their profession on the job.

By contrast Kiwis get to Super rugby and test matches at an older age generally, and even if they are the same age as a young Wallaby, they are more finished players and especially in the top few inches. Part of that development is due to an apprenticeship in the ANZC but part is due also to junior coaching.

Therefore, with so many young players in the Wallabies team it is not surprising that they lose their way in tight games, though the same players can look like world beaters when things are going well. By contrast Kiwis are patient and have more belief because they know they have been prepared well.

 

[RugbyReg]

Won more than we lost. .

v NZL = Loss
v ENG = Won
v IRL = Draw
v SCO = Loss
v WAL = Win.

Thats an equal win/loss record in my eyes.

 

[shadreck]

My apologies to all if this guardian article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2009/nov/30/autumn-internationals-england-all-blacks) has been mentioned but its worth a read for the british perspective.

 

[Lee Grant]

The other good thing is the depth of the squad has now improved. Apart from half back and lock we seem to be able to cover the loss of most players.

We had always thought this and the EOYT confirmed it. It won't mean a lot by itself: The team of the Macqueen era didn't have a lot of depth, and nowhere near what the Kiwis had at the same time, yet we smacked them game after game.

But usually it means something: usually it means that if we have a good player injured there is another good player to take his place, and that means that we don't have to play guys out of position because we have to juggle things to get all of our few good players on the park.

I was disappointed at the Oz dirt-trackers in their 3 matches on the 2006 EOYT, and in the two PNC (Pacific Nations Cup) series involving Oz A in 2007 and 2008 when they came up against NZ. But the two midweek matches recently have shown a bit more quality in our A team. And sure I know that Gloucester and Cardiff were missing a lot of international players, but some of our guys were less experienced than opponents who replaced their international team mates.

 

[Scotty]

In hindsight, it was probably obvious that Deans would be able to teach these kids the rugby skills they need to win a test match as his credentials in this respect are excellent. However I think Deans is struggling with the Aus psyche and how to get these guys fired up and focussed for each game. I doubt this is an issue in NZ, or if it is, maybe there is a different solution for those guys. We have become like the French - capable of beating the best team in the world and also capable of losing to the worst team.

I think this has less to do with the coaching team and more to do with the experience and leadership in the team. Fact is we are sorely missing both, but are slowly gaining both. The other issue is that our main backline leader, Giteau, has not lead when we needed him to the most. I expect we would had two more wins this year if he had stepped up to the plate that he has asked for (in Sydney vs ABs and vs Scotland).

 

[Lee Grant]

My apologies to all if this guardian article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2009/nov/30/autumn-internationals-england-all-blacks) has been mentioned but its worth a read for the british perspective.

Definitely a good read and this is as good a place to post it as any without starting another thread. Thanks for posting it and a belated welcome to the forum.

I particularly like this part:

For how much longer will people pay up to £85 for a seat at Twickenham? There are only so many stupid bankers out there.

Johnno's honeymoon as a coach is well a truly over isn't it? Sure he had a lot of injuries but if we had the same amount of professional players that England has we would be laughing.

In a way it's a pity that England struggled through to get 2nd in 6N on for-and-against because the knives would have been out earlier to change his selection policies had they been below the other teams on the same number of match points.

His problem has been that he has selected too many players in his own image. Borthwick's selection as captain typified this as did picking the likes of Deacon, Worsley and Crane to start at various times in the autumn tests instead of Kennedy, Croft and Haskell. I didn't mind the selection of Shaw when he was fit, but Deacon would struggle to get a S14 spot here and we are short of locks.

Johnno tried to duplicate his success 12 months ago when he picked Delon Armitage to play fullback, by selecting wing Monye there, but foresight told us that Monye was a supreme finisher but not the more complete football player that a test fullback has to be. When the penny dropped and Cueto was switched there England had a real footie player as custodian - but people were saying that before the Oz test.

Perseverance with Banahan, the poor man's Cohen, was another blunder IMO but at least he slipped Erinle into the backline. I don't know if the young bloke is going to be a real test player, as he struggles to get a start for his club, but at least it's a move to the type of player that he needs to score tries.

There were other funny selections too such as Care in front of Hodgson, which went against the form guide.

No, not a great selection effort. Cipriani will have to be brought back, warts and all. Wilko had a great game against Oz but he faltered in the other two matches. A succession plan has to be implemented in 6N.

 

[JJJ]

In terms of developing leadership it's a bit of a worry that so many of our "leaders" are going to be playing for the same team (ie the brumbies) next season. Rocky, Mortlock, Gits, Smith. And there's the incumbent captain there whose name eludes me, so none of them will even get to be captain. It's good for the brumbies, but probably not for the rest of Australia.

 

[Viking]

yeh but im sure that will only last a year, when melbourne comes into the picture im pretty sure rocky n maybe a few others will head there

 

[Groucho]

There are a lot of good posts here and no point in repeating them, so all I'd like to say is that I'm in the glass half full camp. This was the tough tour we had to have. Look at what happens to NH teams when they have rebuilding tours!

It would have been a travesty to have won a grand slam, so maybe it's fair we didn't. But, apart from the Scotland game, the youngsters did good. I have high hopes for as early as next year.

 

[Gagger]

Lee - I've lived on this soggy mud-isle for 20 years now (fuck it) and have been unfortunate to see more England rugby than is mentally healthy.

The poms also have their 4 year cycle, in which they attempt to play some sort of attacking rugby for 3.9 years, and fail dismally, creating the most lateral movement off the slowest ball the game has ever seen. Then, sometimes even with the World Cup having already started, they revert to type, find the biggest pack in the world and drag the rest of the world into truly mind-numbing tournament 10-man rugby. Which works, dammit.

How they manage to do this regardless of coaching regime and in spite of the biggest talent pool in world rugby has everyone mistified. But the truth is that Johnson is merely within the middle of this 4 year force of nature.

Resistance is futile

 

[Pfitzy]

Thats an equal win/loss record in my eyes.

I don't count the Kiwi game. It wasn't the EOYT for me - just a delayed Trinations fixture.

 

[Scotty]

Cracking post Gagger.

 

[spectator]

The EOYT has highlighted the main prob with the wallabies - mental lethargy. This team struggles to be up for each game and seems to rest on their laurels. We struggle to put teams away and lack composure when things aren't going our way. I am not confident we have the coaching staff to address this.

In hindsight, it was probably obvious that Deans would be able to teach these kids the rugby skills they need to win a test match as his credentials in this respect are excellent. However I think Deans is struggling with the Aus psyche and how to get these guys fired up and focussed for each game. I doubt this is an issue in NZ



We should be well placed for next year, provided we can get back the ruthless streak and take advantage of our opportunities.

I wish I had written that; in fact I probably have written a version of it but taken 5 times as many words.

Me too. A perfect capture of what I think a lot of people have been trying to articulate.