Hore's brain-fart

[TSR]

I am happy for the judiciary to reduce whatever sentence Hore gets if his past record is clear, but viewing the actual incident I think he should get plenty. And, for the record I have always liked Andrew Hore as a player. However, it appears to me Hore very deliberately monevourse his arm to get a better shot at the head (look at about 0.48 of the clip IS posted). And it wasn't a gentle nudge.

I couldn't care less whether he was thinking 'I'm going to put this guy in hospital' or just 'I'm going to give this guy something to think about'

A deliberate swinging arm to the head from behind? Players should be able to expect this NEVER happens on the field and his punishment should be long enough to send that clear message.

Consistenancy of the judiciary is another issue though and there are a few other incidents this year that should have got longer for the same protection of player welfare.

 

[Braveheart81]

In my opinion a good previous record shouldn't be considered in a situation like this to reduce a sentence. It was a blatant piece of foul play and I don't believe his clean record mitigates what he did.

If he had a poor record then certainly that should increase the penalty.

I think a good behaviour record is relevant in reducing suspensions for dangerous but not malicious sort of incidents (like Rob Simmons' tip tackle for example).

 

[Schadenfreude]

I can definitely see both sides to the argument. Where my concern stems form is with the increasingly litigious society we live in, criminal charges for things like this stand a real chance of putting an end to contact sports in the long term. Because where do we draw the line?

Punching someone from behind and knocking them out. Lets draw the line there.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I can definitely see both sides to the argument. Where my concern stems form is with the increasingly litigious society we live in, criminal charges for things like this stand a real chance of putting an end to contact sports in the long term. Because where do we draw the line?

The possibility of criminal charges arising from this sort of conduct is nothing new. That possibility has not harmed the game and may even have made it safer.

 

[Scoey]

Dan54 I searched but haven't been able to find it. It was a short clip where Hansen said (and I'm paraphrasing) that he didn't really see the incident but from what he did see it looked as though Hore was simply "hooking" Davies out of the way. It wasn't at the post match press conference because I just watched that and he was slightly more contrite then, but I use the words slightly and contrite loosely. I got the feeling that the interview was in the tunnels after the game but before the presser perhaps. My first issue is with him saying that he didn't really see the incident. I assume (perhaps wrongly) that the coaches get the same TV feed that the rest of us do up in their box? So for the time that Davies was down and play had stopped and replay after replay was being shown from every possible angle, what was Steve doing? That was BS, he saw it. I didn't expect him to condemn Hore at that point, but it was a great opportunity to even describe it as an unfortunate incident or something like that.

Whilst searching for the clip I did see a few other interviews though. In one Hansen alludes to the fact that NZ Rugby is the victim in this. When asked if he was expecting that Hore would be cited he said, probably, but then what do you expect. That's what happens when we come up here. Serious?

When Greyling belted McCaw, Meyer (or it might've been DeVilliers) came out and offered McCaw an apology and said that they would never condone dirty play. Most AB fans will freely admit that Hore's shot on Davies has no place in Rugby. I think what most of the other Unions and their fans would like, is if the NZRU reassured us that they feel the same.

 

[Scoey]

Punching someone from behind and knocking them out. Lets draw the line there.

I have to play devils advocate. So is it ok to punch them in the front and knock them out, or punch them from behind and not knock them out?

I agree with you that what Hore did was not tolerable and he will be sanctioned for it. But are you saying that you would support him facing criminal charges?

 

[Dan54]

Yep Scoey, like I said I was over in NZ and probably saw more about it than you, and no I not saying Hansen should or shouldn't say anything, but I do know what I saw and heard, as I can assure you I talked about it with a lot of people in NZ, and noone excused it,in fact everyone I spoke to were pretty angry, and that was why we a little pleased that we thought on quite a long interview Hansen never tried to condone it. While I also thought it great that Meyer apologised over Greyling, he did it after judiciary hearing as he should, and I didn't criticise Deans for not apologising over Higgers thing, I can't really have different expectation of other coaches, though would be great if they did. I actually think you may of seen Hansen responding to question of do you think Hore will be cited after Samoans that upset the English press the week before weren't. I know the Samoan hits haven't had much mention in Aus, but Butler and co were pretty anti last week in pommy press.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Always the victim, never the perpetrator: All Blacks must own their acts of violence​

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/always-the-victim-never-the-perpetrator-all-blacks-must-own-their-acts-of-violence-20121128-2acrh.html#ixzz2DU4EePWs​

 

[thierry dusautoir]

I just read an article which compared what hore did to McCaw......it stated that if Higginbotham got to weeks for his two stirkes on McCaw which where clearly meant to injure poor old richie.........


If a pussy tap on the head with a knee and that restricted headbutt were meant to 'injure' McCaw than i have seen everything. The NZ media is nearly bad as the english when it comes to rugby

link below
http://www.3news.co.nz/Opinion-Hore-suspended-beats-hanging/tabid/415/articleID/278205/Default.aspx

 

[Schadenfreude]

I have to play devils advocate. So is it ok to punch them in the front and knock them out, or punch them from behind and not knock them out?

I agree with you that what Hore did was not tolerable and he will be sanctioned for it. But are you saying that you would support him facing criminal charges?

I'm suggesting that the line has been unequivocally crossed. So lets agree that this action was over the line. The semantic arguments aren't relevant here, as we both agree he was over the line. Other situations can be judged on their own merits when they arise.

And yes, I would agree criminal charges aren't unwarranted. Just as I don't agree with the "She was asking to be raped by wearing those clothes" argument, I disagree with the "he was playing rugby, so he should expect random acts of deliberate assault without a chance to defend himself" argument. Same goes for those fuckwits that break peoples arms etc. Maiming people isn't a sport (anymore).

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I just read an article which compared what hore did to McCaw..it stated that if Higginbotham got to weeks for his two stirkes on McCaw which where clearly meant to injure poor old richie...


If a pussy tap on the head with a knee and that restricted headbutt were meant to 'injure' McCaw than i have seen everything. The NZ media is nearly bad as the english when it comes to rugby

link below
http://www.3news.co.nz/Opinion-Hore-suspended-beats-hanging/tabid/415/articleID/278205/Default.aspx

One positive: there's no mention of dirty thieving convicts

 

[qwerty51]

If McCaw was the victim here and not Davies they would most definitely be calls for life bans for the perpetrator from NZ.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

If they started going toe to toe it would be different but the fact that it was unwarranted unprovoked is pretty disgusting

 

[Richo]

The NZ media is nearly bad as the english when it comes to rugby

I don't think that's entirely fair. The link above yours is from a Mark Reason piece ripping into the ABs for not owning up and apologizing.

That said, I totally agree that the article you posted is bollocks. To say it was comparing apples and oranges is way too kind.

 

[Scoey]

Fair cop Dan54 - well said.

I'm suggesting that the line has been unequivocally crossed. So lets agree that this action was over the line. The semantic arguments aren't relevant here, as we both agree he was over the line. Other situations can be judged on their own merits when they arise.

And yes, I would agree criminal charges aren't unwarranted. Just as I don't agree with the "She was asking to be raped by wearing those clothes" argument, I disagree with the "he was playing rugby, so he should expect random acts of deliberate assault without a chance to defend himself" argument. Same goes for those fuckwits that break peoples arms etc. Maiming people isn't a sport (anymore).

The semantics arguments are relevant, but only in the context of my post that you were replying to. Don't get me wrong, I agree with every part of your post except for the part where you say criminal charges aren't unwarranted. The line has been unequivocally crossed as you say and that is why it will be dealt with harshly when he is cited. Whilst I would never say that anything that happens on a Rugby field should be immune from criminal charges, I simply said that we need to be very careful about heading down that path. I don't think this is at that point.

 

[Sully]

This is getting way off track! please keep the my countries better than your country crap out of it and stick to the incident.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Who is on the Judiciary and when?

It must be soon, and should be before they announce the teams for the weekend, although I would imagine that the Lords Of Darkness have already decided that Gimli wont be available this weekend.

I'm picking 6-8 weeks/games.

 

[Muttonbird]

The trial of Andrew Hore.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

after good behaviour if he is lucky........i have seen a similar thibg happen in BJRU and it was 12 weeks

 

[It is what it is]

If they started going toe to toe it would be different but the fact that it was unwarranted unprovoked is pretty disgusting

It certainly wasn't a square up, the game had been going for all of 60 seconds.