Highlanders v Waratahs - R5, 2015

[Brumby Runner]

The Waratahs were on attack, they did not have a defensive line set, Fekitoa stripped it and moved it quickly to Naholo. Counter-attack in that situation is different to counter-attack from, say, a kick return of a bad kick, so it is one of the more vulnerable situations to defend. Carraro got done for pace, so too Beale, and Phipps (the best cover defender for the Tahs) couldn't really get close. Apparently Naholo is pretty quick, or so it seemed to others. Yes, defensive lapses, but to blithely ignore the preceding circumstances and focus one one of 2-3 players who missed the player is hardly an objective overview of the passage of play, which is a complex thing of many parts.

And yet some are focusing only on the ball being stripped in that particular play as the deciding factor in the try being scored. I can readily accept that it was a series of circumstances including the strip, the non-alignment of the defense and the missed tackles. My original post did not just refer to this incident, but to the fact that KB (Kurtley Beale) missed three tackles that directly led to or influenced a try being scored.

I just think it is time that Tahs' fans had a realistic look at his defensive deficiencies and acknowledged that he needs to do something about them. Otherwise I thought the team performance was a step up from the previous week. A continuation of that improved form will ensure a close game this weekend.

 

[Braveheart81]

Your point about Beale being a weak tackler is only valid in the Ben Smith try where he missed a one on one tackle he should have made.

Complain about him not being fast enough to make a decent attempt on Naholo.

He could not get in position to do it. Carraro was much, much closer and was still beaten for pace.

I don't know how you've pinned the Osborne try on Beale. Potgieter ran out of the line and from there, no one was going to stop Osborne.

I think there are plenty of Tahs fans who are being completely realistic about his tackling ability. It's pointless trying to blame him for things that aren't his fault though.

 

[cyclopath]

And yet some are focusing only on the ball being stripped in that particular play as the deciding factor in the try being scored. I can readily accept that it was a series of circumstances including the strip, the non-alignment of the defense and the missed tackles. My original post did not just refer to this incident, but to the fact that KB (Kurtley Beale) missed three tackles that directly led to or influenced a try being scored.

I just think it is time that Tahs' fans had a realistic look at his defensive deficiencies and acknowledged that he needs to do something about them. Otherwise I thought the team performance was a step up from the previous week. A continuation of that improved form will ensure a close game this weekend.

I did. I just don't think it's the over-arching problem that you do.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I'm done BH. At least until next week.

 

[fatprop]

Your point about Beale being a weak tackler is only valid in the Ben Smith try where he missed a one on one tackle he should have made.

Complain about him not being fast enough to make a decent attempt on Naholo.

He could not get in position to do it. Carraro was much, much closer and was still beaten for pace.

I don't know how you've pinned the Osborne try on Beale. Potgieter ran out of the line and from there, no one was going to stop Osborne.

I think there are plenty of Tahs fans who are being completely realistic about his tackling ability. It's pointless trying to blame him for things that aren't his fault though.

If we started shooting each player that missed a one on one with Ben Smith most sides would have no one left for the following week

 

[Ruggo]

Forget singling out one or two incidents. Beale is not a good defender plain and simple. I don't understand why people are so precious to defend him on this simple fact. That he is constantly hidden at FB indicates it enough. It can't be justified as a counter attacking measure because you have one of the best attacking players in Falou.

Highlanders are just an awsome side. Not pretty at times but the grit they show is fantastic and the level of fitness incredible. You want to be on your game when you play these buggers or else.

 

[barbarian]

Highlanders generally peak in the first half of the season, before injuries and fatigue hit them and their lack of depth is exposed.

Last year we got them late and won by 20. They are a totally different prospect in round 4 IMO.
.

 

[Braveheart81]

Forget singling out one or two incidents. Beale is not a good defender plain and simple. I don't understand why people are so precious to defend him on this simple fact. That he is constantly hidden at FB indicates it enough. It can't be justified as a counter attacking measure because you have one of the best attacking players in Falou.

Highlanders are just an awsome side. Not pretty at times but the grit they show is fantastic and the level of fitness incredible. You want to be on your game when you play these buggers or else.

Even Beale's biggest fans (of which I'd count myself one) think he is a weak defender. There's no debate there. It's a fact.

It's not about defending Beale's defence. It's about trying to judge it fairly and actually point to the spots he needs to improve (one on one tackling of which he missed one that resulted in a try), rather than focusing on an incident where he tried to make a covering tackle and didn't get there because he didn't have the pace (although he had more pace than the Carraro who was in a much better position to make a tackle).

The Waratahs generally play two players at the back, Beale and Folau on either side of the field. Beale being back there doesn't stifle Folau's counter attacking. They're there to cover more ground and to be able to counter attack as a pair.

This is becoming like the Hooper isn't a 7 argument. Many commentors are losing the objectivity to actually look at what happened and instead want to focus on generalisations.

You've made the comment that they shouldn't be hiding Beale at the back because Folau should be there when the reality is that they are both there. For three seasons now, the Tahs have played two fullbacks in general play on defence.

 

[Pfitzy]

I think Hooper isn't a proper 7 because he doesn't execute WWE moves like Liam Gill.

 

[chasmac]

In the try to Naholo, should Foley have made the pass to Folau in the first place?
Skeltons hitup prior to the strip play from Fekitoa didn't bend the line enough and it was all in slow motion.

I know this is blatant 20/20 but Foley should have gone back inside to TPN or Carraro who had both made a run into that channel.
Foley's judgement was out in this instance, Fekitoa out foxed him with his defensive rush, the rest was just good counter attack from Highlanders.
Marking Beale down for his defense in this phase of play is bollocks.

A previous poster made the point that the Waratahs were outpointed in the middle 20mins. This was their mistake as a team. Either lift the intensity or control the tempo or both.

 

[Pfitzy]

Was a really good read by Fekitoa IMHO.

Your basic point covers our entire game plan for the night though - we were going wide too early. Ball was a bit slow. And as you say, we didn't use the inside channel too much. When we did it was effective.

 

[Ruggo]

Even Beale's biggest fans (of which I'd count myself one) think he is a weak defender. There's no debate there. It's a fact.

It's not about defending Beale's defence. It's about trying to judge it fairly and actually point to the spots he needs to improve (one on one tackling of which he missed one that resulted in a try), rather than focusing on an incident where he tried to make a covering tackle and didn't get there because he didn't have the pace (although he had more pace than the Carraro who was in a much better position to make a tackle).

The Waratahs generally play two players at the back, Beale and Folau on either side of the field. Beale being back there doesn't stifle Folau's counter attacking. They're there to cover more ground and to be able to counter attack as a pair.

This is becoming like the Hooper isn't a 7 argument. Many commentors are losing the objectivity to actually look at what happened and instead want to focus on generalisations.

You've made the comment that they shouldn't be hiding Beale at the back because Folau should be there when the reality is that they are both there. For three seasons now, the Tahs have played two fullbacks in general play on defence.

And it has worked for them in the past but now the competition is onto it. It is exactly the same issue as the Reds had when they (we) won the title. Competition worked out how Quade was hidden and he had to learn to man up in defense which is exactly what Beale needs to do.

Dropping two players back is problematic in it's own right and explains why Feketoa, Smith and co caused you so much problems.

We have a thread to discuss Hooper as a 7 so we can deal with that there but I don't think it is about generalisations but about trends in their individual games over a period of time. We should be discussing the impacts it has on team performance and how they can evolve those trends as they progress in their careers. Even more for front line internationals how they can adapt to the team requirement in different team environments. That is pretty much why I don't like pointing individual incidents because all players will have a bad night at the office like we all do at some point in life.

 

[Braveheart81]

And it has worked for them in the past but now the competition is onto it. It is exactly the same issue as the Reds had when they (we) won the title. Competition worked out how Quade was hidden and he had to learn to man up in defense which is exactly what Beale needs to do.

Dropping two players back is problematic in it's own right and explains why Feketoa, Smith and co caused you so much problems.

The incident we are talking about involved no one standing at fullback because we were in attack and turned the ball over.

Beale was the only person quick enough to get anywhere near making the tackle. The only player in the backline with similar or better pace is Betham and he was on the opposite wing so was never a chance.

Three of the four tries the Waratahs conceded were the direct result of errors. One of those errors was made by Beale (which wasn't this try). The other two were Folau and Potgieter. None of them had anything to do with playing two fullbacks in defence.

 

[Hawko]

The incident we are talking about involved no one standing at fullback because we were in attack and turned the ball over.

Beale was the only person quick enough to get anywhere near making the tackle. The only player in the backline with similar or better pace is Betham and he was on the opposite wing so was never a chance.

Three of the four tries the Waratahs conceded were the direct result of errors. One of those errors was made by Beale (which wasn't this try). The other two were Folau and Potgieter. None of them had anything to do with playing two fullbacks in defence.

Its frustrating I know but these posters start with the feeling that they hate Beale and then move on to the assumption that Beale is responsible for every mistake. Its bollocks but you can't change their thinking with facts.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Its frustrating I know but these posters start with the feeling that they hate Beale and then move on to the assumption that Beale is responsible for every mistake. Its bollocks but you can't change their thinking with facts.

I said I was done, but this post really needs a retort.

Fact 1. I do not hate Beale. I certainly disrespect him for the way he has carried on over the years, and in any contest between him and another of similar talent and skill, I will go with the other any and every day of the week.

Fact 2. Nowhere did I attribute every mistake the Tahs made at his feet. Three only that I identified as having a significant impact on the game.

Fact 3. I am always open to changing my mind based on the facts before me. I can see, and acknowledge, the improved performance of Will Skelton in the scrums, and even a hint of it at lineout time. I am quite content now that he will be a positive influence at RWC time, though he was really a handicap in the EOYT.

 

[Viking]

A reputation is not built on one game. Beale won't be able to change that until he does better in defence. If he had made consistent improvements in defence then he wouldn't get as much unjustified criticism.

Hiding him at fullback is probably the most effective strategy for the Tahs but it is certainly not doing Beale any favours in his development. His weakness will remain a weakness until they stop shifting him around, exactly what happened to QC (Quade Cooper).

 

[Pfitzy]

Fact 2. Nowhere did I attribute every mistake the Tahs made at his feet. Three only that I identified as having a significant impact on the game.

Yes, but you said:

The biggest problem for the Tahs is KB (Kurtley Beale)'s inability to tackle. Three missed tackles directly led to three tries.

So looking at your comments on face value:

1) You said the Tahs' biggest problem was Beale's tackling. It isn't.

2) He has the ability to tackle. Therefore you are wrong.

3) His missed tackle on Naholo did NOT lead to a try, it failed to prevent one, and was barely half a chance anyway. Therefore, you are wrong again.

You may try to now justify what you said by putting it in the context of points scored against us in actions involving Beale. If that is your primary thinking in terms of ability and selection, then I'd recommend booting Lilo before he misses any more kicks.

It doesn't change the fact that a lot of our defenders were not doing their job at 100% of ability.