Here is an opinion on Aussie rugby

[I like to watch]

yep

 

[qwerty51]

We have players who are good enough for Super rugby going overseas because there's a lack of pro contracts here, if the Rebels didn't exist that's another 30 going overseas.

 

[Schadenfreude]

People don't seem to realise someone has to come last.

If you accept it's fine that one team should win almost all their games to be crowned champion, then it should be reasonable that a team loses nearly all their games.

In fact it's just as likely YOUR team will win as it is to come last.

So while it's all well and good to complain the Force didn't win many games, one team is always going to be last. So why all the hand-wringing?

 

[Antony]

Make it so that 3 of the foreign players have to be from RC nations.

Is that just to encourage the selection of Argentinians? I think that's a good, flexible way of achieving that end, and not one I'd heard before.

 

[Scotty]

Is that just to encourage the selection of Argentinians? I think that's a good, flexible way of achieving that end, and not one I'd heard before.

Yeah, I think it would be great to have a stack of Argentinians playing in the super xv. Would make their national side stronger and our super teams stronger. A win win all around!

 

[Lindommer]

Consider this: a super squad is 30 players plus 5 EPS, and only 3 of those are allowed to be foreigners (for the WF anyway). This represents 8.5% of the squad. In Western Australia, 40.7% of the population was born overseas......the 3 player rule seriously cuts down our ability to do the one thing we rely on in the West to compete globally, import labour.

The Force are free to sign up any of that 40.7% who've committed to living in Australia and aren't tied to other countries. I suspect it'd be most of the 40.7 who play rugby.

 

[Dam0]

The only concern I have about Argentinian's playing en masse in the Super XV is that some who come without having played for the Pumas might find it very tempting to play for their adopted country after only being here for the 3 year stand down. This could end up raping Argentine rugby rather than helping it. I don't know how you'd get around the problem without breaching competition law. It would be tough to write in clauses which required the players to remain eligible for the Pumas, particularly since there may be pressure from the individual SANZAR unions for them to trade allegiances.

 

[Lee Enfield]

It is too early to right off the expansion as a failure, but thecurrent situation should be reviewed to see if it is being run and handled in the most effective and effcient manner.

As for the Wallabies lacking the "Digger" approach, sadly in my opinion, this isn't just isolated to the Wallabies. I believe Australian society is lacking this approach, as a Country, our whole attiude and personality has changed. Our nation is as soft as butter now, with everyone looking to take offence at everything and nothing. The digger mentality in Australia is long dead.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Doesn't Taine ignore the elephant in the room?
S15 may not be a development tournament for NZ but they have a 3rd tier, and then some.
Where would the players currently at the force and rebels get the requisite experience if they did fold?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Yeah, I think it would be great to have a stack of Argentinians playing in the super xv. Would make their national side stronger and our super teams stronger. A win win all around!

I assume they get paid a truckload more to play in France than they would do here?

 

[rugbyisfun]

Horwill returns serve...

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...-wallabies-a-quality-side-20121008-2799e.html

Pretty weak response to some very valid points raised by Randall.

The 'top down' approach has screwed Australian Rugby. There can be no denying that.

But it's Ok according to Horwill....we just have to wait a few years for it all to pay off....

 

[Hugh Jarse]

You really shouldn't be setting the (injured) national captain in to bat for a criticism against the code.

There are any number of very articulate former Wallaby elder statesmen and coaches that would be well placed, and more suitable to return service. The interns at ARU Media Unit should be on top of this, even if there is no official ARU response, not that this warrants an official ARU response.

The current squad (including Team Rehab) have better things to focus on than issues such as this.

 

[Bon]

Doesn't Taine ignore the elephant in the room?
S15 may not be a development tournament for NZ but they have a 3rd tier, and then some.
Where would the players currently at the force and rebels get the requisite experience if they did fold?

I agree. In the absence of a third tier competition it is essential that Australia keep five teams in the Super Rugby even if one or two were to struggle a bit at times.Filling out the numbers with overseas players may not be helpful long term.

 

[rugbyisfun]

I agree. In the absence of a third tier competition it is essential that Australia keep five teams in the Super Rugby even if one or two were to struggle a bit at times.Filling out the numbers with overseas players may not be helpful long term.

And this is where the 'grow at all costs' point raised to Taine is spot on. Maybe in the early 2000's we really should have focused all of our collective energies on building the game at a lower level.

Imagine what we could have achieved if all of that 'top up' cash for Sailor, Rogers, Tuqiri etc etc had have been used to sustain a 3rd tier when the game was in a strong position, as it was.

A strong Tahs, Reds and Brumbies with a red hot 3rd tier below it would have produced so much more for Australian Rugby than the current situation has.

 

[Braveheart81]

If we had a third tier competition and only three super rugby franchises, I wonder what our player retention would look like.

I'd be betting that players like Nathan Sharpe, Radike Samo, Adam Wallace Harrison and a bunch of other veterans would all be playing overseas by this stage of their career.

I think we need a third tier competition as well, but I absolutely think 5 Super Rugby franchises strengthens our game and player depth within just a few years.

 

[DPK]

The only concern I have about Argentinian's playing en masse in the Super XV is that some who come without having played for the Pumas might find it very tempting to play for their adopted country after only being here for the 3 year stand down. This could end up raping Argentine rugby rather than helping it. I don't know how you'd get around the problem without breaching competition law. It would be tough to write in clauses which required the players to remain eligible for the Pumas, particularly since there may be pressure from the individual SANZAR unions for them to trade allegiances.

This sounds really unlikely. If it was to happen, it would be in very small numbers of players.

 

[fatprop]

Short term pain for long term gain

Are the S15 teams weaker from such a massive increase in pro rugby playing numbers in Aus in a relatively short time? Yep

Is Aus rugby better off in the long term? Bloody oath

 

[ChargerWA]

I agree. In the absence of a third tier competition it is essential that Australia keep five teams in the Super Rugby even if one or two were to struggle a bit at times.Filling out the numbers with overseas players may not be helpful long term.

But the chicken and egg scenario is going to play out shortly.

What should be our largest most successful franchise is a cash drain. The punters don't turn up in disgust with the venue and style of rugby they play while the Force (and the Rebels I think also?) generate income back to the ARU. The ARU then closes all bar the Sydney and Brisbane academies, leaving the Force and Rebels to develop their talent on their own.

If there isn't a modicum of success for these franchises the punters will stop turning up and they will also become a cash drain on the ARU. I accept that a few franchises will always be near the bottom, but the anti competition blanket rules the ARU impose coupled with tiny development pools in WA and VIC will ensure that it is likely to always be these two once the Rebels overseas players dispensation is revoked.

Just leaving two teams to struggle in aid of the greater good isn't the long term answer to increasing player depth.

 

[BPC]

Remind me again of what success Taine Randell had as a player, particularly in Super Rugby, that makes his opinion on the Australian provinces so valuable.

 

[BDA]

haha Randell give yourself an uppercut. This is Hyperbole rubbish

Since the addition of the 5th aussie team we've had an aus team win the Super title, we've won the Tri-nations, we've consistently been ranked number 2 in the world. Finished a respectable 3rd in the world cup, we finished 2nd in the RC despite having more first choice players injured than the other three countries combined....i mean clearly we have had a pretty poor 2012 at Super and Test level but i dont think the sky is falling in. Come back to me when we are at least behind the Six Nation champions in the IRB rankings.

As others have already pointed out, with no national competition, 5 teams is a must. Casual aussie fans want to see Aussie teams play.
more games between aussie teams = more aussies watching rugby.
more aussies watching rugby = more aussie rugby fans.
more aussie rugby fans = more aussie rugby players.
more aussie rugby players = more quality talent to pick from
more quality talent to pick from = success at Super and Test level.

It's a simple formula and it does not equate to overnight success. No pain no gain.

In the meantime there are simple solutions to the shor tterm lack of depth. The ARU should allow more international players to play for our Super teams maybe 2 star imports + 2 or 3 development players. I understand why they have strict rules is in place, but those rules probably need to be relaxed a bit for the time being.