JRugby2
Charlie Fox (21)
I think we're singing from the same song sheet here.
Having no NRC is better how?
- Thread starter MungoMan
- Start date
Wilson
Phil Kearns (64)
Australia A helps super players bridge the gap to test rugby, it doesn't do much of anything for club players making the jump to super - the main developmental role of the NRC or equivalent
wamberal99
Jim Clark (26)
For the record, an Eastwood side with no Super Rugby players beat Easts, who have a few. And the game was at Easts home ground.
The Ghost of Raelene
Simon Poidevin (60)
Just showing why I’m not fussed about the Tahs moving on from guys like Tuipulotu and Wilson. They’ve had a go.
Good win for Eastwood. I’m sure they thoroughly enjoyed it with the exodus of players and coach to Easts.
wamberal99
Jim Clark (26)
Eastwood fielded a team of players most of whom I did not recognise! Mind you, I do not go to the games any more, we live in the Far North.
The Ghost of Raelene
Simon Poidevin (60)
They don’t have many at the moment. Reece Tapine has played for the Force and Bacon with Aus 7s. Other than that it’s a lot of Clubmen.
Will Goddard the Prop is one for the future. Monster for the NSW U18s last year. Playing 1st grade is a good achievement. He’s got to be 120kg and built like a tank not just heavy.
In regards to the lack of NRC, obviously QLD and QRU do the challenger series which rewards the top Premier Grade players with a little series vs contracted Reds players.
I actually wrote to QRU last year while liking the whole series idea suggesting they could improve on it further with that lack of an NRC, by creating merit teams from all the different competitions around the state and having a mini states comp with maybe 2 teams from QPR, a team from Sunny Coast, Gold Coast, Northern Qld, Darling Downs which from that competition they select the challenger team for the Challenger series they do, only downside to it is cost but would help grow the game further state wide and reward players outside of the QPR catchment.
I actually wrote to QRU last year while liking the whole series idea suggesting they could improve on it further with that lack of an NRC, by creating merit teams from all the different competitions around the state and having a mini states comp with maybe 2 teams from QPR, a team from Sunny Coast, Gold Coast, Northern Qld, Darling Downs which from that competition they select the challenger team for the Challenger series they do, only downside to it is cost but would help grow the game further state wide and reward players outside of the QPR catchment.
JRugby2
Charlie Fox (21)
Love the thought but with all due respect to the regions they'd get absolutely bopped by the QPR teams in this format. Would say that there is likely enough talent (particularly in SEQ Country Regions) to field a competitive team but not without the support an established club environment provides. QLDC played off against some "premier grade" teams at the end of 2021(2022?) with some mixed results.
QLD Country will host their own state champs in Rockhampton in June when these regions will come together to play for selection in the QLDC Heelers/ Orchards squads and is a good opportunity for exposure to other Brisbane Clubs (several Heelers/ Orchards have gone on to win selection in Premier Grade teams each season).
I'd love to see better regional representation in our feeder system but would require a complete knock down/ rebuild of the established hospital cup concept.
I do agree those sides would get bopped by the QPR boys, but its better for the game to get that exposure for the regional players who maybe can’t afford moving to brisbane to link up with a QPR side to get a crack at one of those sides.
I think Aus rugby definately needs something extra, which could help also to keep alot of the schoolboys away from leagues grasps
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
Why not use the Australian Rugby Shield? Run it across two divisions. A 'Premiership' and a 'Championship'. Premiership would feature rep squads from the Shute Shield, Hospitals Cup (two a piece), John Dent, Melbourne and Perth. The Championship would feature a team from Adelaide, Tasmania and the NT alongside a 2nd rep squad from each of the Melbourne and Perth as well as the winner of the respective country championships in NSW and QLD. I would even look to automatically involve a rep squad from the Gold Coast, Hunter and Illawarra comps being larger centres to bring that to ten.
The Premiership would run for 6 rounds minimum. Everyone plays one another once. Finals would see the top two go through to the major semi finals while 3-6 playoff to see who will face them. 7th place plays no one. Major Semi to determine the two that go through to the final. A;; up 9 weeks.
The Championship featuring 10 'regions' would be split into two pools of 5. Playing against each of the pool opponents. Top two from each pool into the finals. Total around 7 weeks.
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
Definitely an idea WCR but what happens with the rest of the players from the respective club competitions while these championship rounds play out? There will be a lot of class players not catered for even with representative sides. Up to 9 weeks of extra playing for the representative few is a fair whack of time for the rest to be idle, especially if injuries take out some of those still playing before the test seasons are upon us.
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
I assume you're referring to the teams in what would be the Championship level. There's no such thing as perfect and I certainly am not going to pretend otherwise. So players will inevitably miss out. However, I would suggest that the guys living in regional areas that would be competing in this pathway are playing the game for fun and not necessarily pursuing anything more at if they got to play in this structure that it would be seen as an added bonus. If there are those that are seriously looking to pursue Rugby then they may look to move to a region that is more permanent in their representation at that level. That's something that happens across a number of sports all the time.
JRugby2
Charlie Fox (21)
ARS currently works as it's only a week long commitment for these guys - in this model you're asking each team to travel every 2nd weekend for 2 months. A lot of these ideas are great in theory until you remember that Australia is a bunch of small places with a shit load of nothing between them.
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
Not necessarily. For the 2nd Division you could keep much of the same format.
JRugby2
Charlie Fox (21)
I like the thinking in general - but I see some holes which I appreciate you've called out, it's not perfect. Maybe just for some context, as much as I love country rugby - I think you severely overestimate both the standard of rugby in regional areas (particularly in places like the Gold Coast, Illawarra etc. despite their relative size) as well as the purpose of these rep teams, so a couple of things to consider:
You wouldn't put the winners of the QLDC/NSWC into the ARS as it would both degrade the prestige of playing for the Heelers/ Cockatoos but also erode the standard of that competition. NSWC is different but for QLD at a senior level currently the regions ladder up to North, Central and South to play off at the QLDC championships. A big reason for this is logistics as the state is so geographically sparse that it's impossible to run a proper round robin for all age groups up to seniors for a reasonable cost. So having these teams ladder up to a single country team elevates the jersey to a higher standard and solves the cost problem as only the best of best have to pay up (and it's easier to attract sponsorship).
The ACT, Perth and Melbourne comps already have a rep team in the ARS that NSWC and QLDC are competitive with - so having those areas put their 2s into the championship could result in both their 1stXV getting destroyed by the Hospital Cup/ SS teams and their 2ndXVs getting handily beaten in the championship too.
I think the reality is that the old NRC was actually a pretty decent comp and with some persistence could have in time been a realistic option to replace super rugby at least in Australia. We need to bring it back.
You wouldn't put the winners of the QLDC/NSWC into the ARS as it would both degrade the prestige of playing for the Heelers/ Cockatoos but also erode the standard of that competition. NSWC is different but for QLD at a senior level currently the regions ladder up to North, Central and South to play off at the QLDC championships. A big reason for this is logistics as the state is so geographically sparse that it's impossible to run a proper round robin for all age groups up to seniors for a reasonable cost. So having these teams ladder up to a single country team elevates the jersey to a higher standard and solves the cost problem as only the best of best have to pay up (and it's easier to attract sponsorship).
The ACT, Perth and Melbourne comps already have a rep team in the ARS that NSWC and QLDC are competitive with - so having those areas put their 2s into the championship could result in both their 1stXV getting destroyed by the Hospital Cup/ SS teams and their 2ndXVs getting handily beaten in the championship too.
I think the reality is that the old NRC was actually a pretty decent comp and with some persistence could have in time been a realistic option to replace super rugby at least in Australia. We need to bring it back.
Joe King
Dave Cowper (27)
If we end up with only 4 Super Rugby teams, then at the very least those 4 teams (minus test players) should play home and away with a final in the off-season (Sept-Oct). It would only take 7 weeks from start to finish and would give each Super Rugby team a minimum of 6 extra games in which to bring in the best new players from club rugby, and build combinations, cohesion, and game plans for the following SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) season.
It would also act as the vehicle for selecting the Australian A team.
It would run parallel to the Super Rugby u16 and u19 comps. No one could complain that it is interrupting club rugby. They could even squeeze in the suggested national club championship beforehand.**
Australia needs to have a structure for the best club players to step up into the Super Rugby teams, but also a structure that builds stronger Super Rugby teams. This will benefit the SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) competition and also be better for the Wallabies. This assumes we are locked into Super Rugby until 2030. Let’s just do it well.
**Just on the suggested club rugby championship, I honestly believe that all we need is the winner of the Shute Shield to play the winner of the Hospital Cup at the end of their respective seasons. Promote it as a Super Bowl type game. I think it would create a lot of interest. But I don’t think they should try to develop club rugby too much more beyond this.
It would also act as the vehicle for selecting the Australian A team.
It would run parallel to the Super Rugby u16 and u19 comps. No one could complain that it is interrupting club rugby. They could even squeeze in the suggested national club championship beforehand.**
Australia needs to have a structure for the best club players to step up into the Super Rugby teams, but also a structure that builds stronger Super Rugby teams. This will benefit the SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) competition and also be better for the Wallabies. This assumes we are locked into Super Rugby until 2030. Let’s just do it well.
**Just on the suggested club rugby championship, I honestly believe that all we need is the winner of the Shute Shield to play the winner of the Hospital Cup at the end of their respective seasons. Promote it as a Super Bowl type game. I think it would create a lot of interest. But I don’t think they should try to develop club rugby too much more beyond this.
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JRugby2
Charlie Fox (21)
Agree - having it in preseason like we do now while a great way to kick off the rugby year, kinda takes away from the prestige of the trophy
Cockatoo Run
Herbert Moran (7)
We currently have Super Rugby teams touring to get experience and exposure beyond club level.
With the U16 and U19 having a national competition for 6 weeks around October, you would think a similar compressed 4-teams national comp (less Wallaby players) is the simplest and cheapest way forward domestically and adding a game or two on already planned match days and venues.
If we really want to be clever, we can have an additional trophy involving:
- Sydney (Shute Shield XV)
- Brisbane (Hospitals Cup XV)
- ACT & Southern (John I Dent Cup and Melb combined)
- ‘Combined States’ (WA Premier Rugby and Aust Rugby Shield combined XV)
i.e. you will never get 4 equal teams but it's a step up for non-contracted talented players to get some exposure at a higher level.
A game day in Sydney could be:
1.00pm NSW U16 vs QLD U16
3.00pm NSW U19 vs QLD U19
5.00pm Sydney vs Brisbane (non-contracted players)
7.00pm Waratahs vs Reds (contracted players)
Four team comps, home and away, two games a weekend – done in 6 weeks.
With the U16 and U19 having a national competition for 6 weeks around October, you would think a similar compressed 4-teams national comp (less Wallaby players) is the simplest and cheapest way forward domestically and adding a game or two on already planned match days and venues.
If we really want to be clever, we can have an additional trophy involving:
- Sydney (Shute Shield XV)
- Brisbane (Hospitals Cup XV)
- ACT & Southern (John I Dent Cup and Melb combined)
- ‘Combined States’ (WA Premier Rugby and Aust Rugby Shield combined XV)
i.e. you will never get 4 equal teams but it's a step up for non-contracted talented players to get some exposure at a higher level.
A game day in Sydney could be:
1.00pm NSW U16 vs QLD U16
3.00pm NSW U19 vs QLD U19
5.00pm Sydney vs Brisbane (non-contracted players)
7.00pm Waratahs vs Reds (contracted players)
Four team comps, home and away, two games a weekend – done in 6 weeks.
Bob Peters
Peter Burge (5)
Couldn’t agree more. Never understood why this isn’t the logical opportunity. No, not a full NRC but it’s at least something.