Having no NRC is better how?

[Highlander35]

While not my preferred model, IF you presuppose a 10 team competition where every super side supports 2 NRC sides, AND you ensure every player with an Australian Super Rugby contract is obliged to play NRC, then having say, the Rebels top up a 3rd NRC team in QLD and the Brumbies and the Force top up 3rd and 4th NSW teams is not a terrible idea. Any suggestion of Adelaide/Tasmania is ridiculous unless there are some wealthy folks in those areas willing to cover flights accom and what would have to be significant allowances that clubbies would need to take to relocate for 8-10 weeks.

 

[Rebel man]

While not my preferred model, IF you presuppose a 10 team competition where every super side supports 2 NRC sides, AND you ensure every player with an Australian Super Rugby contract is obliged to play NRC, then having say, the Rebels top up a 3rd NRC team in QLD and the Brumbies and the Force top up 3rd and 4th NSW teams is not a terrible idea. Any suggestion of Adelaide/Tasmania is ridiculous unless there are some wealthy folks in those areas willing to cover flights accom and what would have to be significant allowances that clubbies would need to take to relocate for 8-10 weeks.

The Tassie government tries to support getting sport down there

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

While not my preferred model, IF you presuppose a 10 team competition where every super side supports 2 NRC sides, AND you ensure every player with an Australian Super Rugby contract is obliged to play NRC, then having say, the Rebels top up a 3rd NRC team in QLD and the Brumbies and the Force top up 3rd and 4th NSW teams is not a terrible idea. Any suggestion of Adelaide/Tasmania is ridiculous unless there are some wealthy folks in those areas willing to cover flights accom and what would have to be significant allowances that clubbies would need to take to relocate for 8-10 weeks.

This is a big one. This was a reason a lot of guys said no thanks to the NRC.

We need those guys aged 22-30 who are genuine 1st graders to make it a competitive competition. It can't be a continuation of the U19s into a U21s and rehabbing Wallabies.

 

[Highlander35]

The Tassie government tries to support getting sport down there

No doubt there would be some money. But working through the rough numbers:

35 players is probably correct for an 11 game competition. With 10 teams, thats 350 players.

Roughly 200 players signed to super rugby sides. Realistically, 10% of that group will be injured or sent into surgery, then another 40 will be in the international framework either in frame to play or part of team rehab. so say, optimistically, that there's 140 available, at roughly 14 per NRC side.

So, you still probably need 20-odd EPS/Academy/Premier/Club players to turn up per side to ensure that sides have the depth required for an actual competition rather than some sort of sprint series.

Melbourne, Perth and somewhat Canberra already have the professional arrangements in place to top up a half squad with academy players, locals, and one or two fly ins that they want to see work with the senior coaches/physios etc.. In Brisbane & Sydney the Premier teams have enough shamatuerism and ambition that it shouldn't be "too" difficult to bring in enough additional capable bodies so long as there is a bit of cash flying around.

Trying to force that in Adelaide or Hobart well, you will probably need to transplant at least 15 clubbies alongside the pros: you can't possibly suggest that there are 20 players from the Black Falcons or Jackjumpers ready to play in a competition of the standard we're aiming for: and that's before physios, coaches, medicos, ground rental for both training and matches, additional flights.

Not impossible by any means, but it requires a level of investment that far supersedes any local drive or practical financial ability to do so.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

It's extra detail and cost Rugby shouldn't be worried about right now.

Get the fundamentals in place and moving. All going well, who knows these things could be looked at but we can barely catch a pass right now. Lets not launch a torpedo bomb for RA to figure out.

 

[Rebel man]

No doubt there would be some money. But working through the rough numbers:

35 players is probably correct for an 11 game competition. With 10 teams, thats 350 players.

Roughly 200 players signed to super rugby sides. Realistically, 10% of that group will be injured or sent into surgery, then another 40 will be in the international framework either in frame to play or part of team rehab. so say, optimistically, that there's 140 available, at roughly 14 per NRC side.

So, you still probably need 20-odd EPS/Academy/Premier/Club players to turn up per side to ensure that sides have the depth required for an actual competition rather than some sort of sprint series.

Melbourne, Perth and somewhat Canberra already have the professional arrangements in place to top up a half squad with academy players, locals, and one or two fly ins that they want to see work with the senior coaches/physios etc.. In Brisbane & Sydney the Premier teams have enough shamatuerism and ambition that it shouldn't be "too" difficult to bring in enough additional capable bodies so long as there is a bit of cash flying around.

Trying to force that in Adelaide or Hobart well, you will probably need to transplant at least 15 clubbies alongside the pros: you can't possibly suggest that there are 20 players from the Black Falcons or Jackjumpers ready to play in a competition of the standard we're aiming for: and that's before physios, coaches, medicos, ground rental for both training and matches, additional flights.

Not impossible by any means, but it requires a level of investment that far supersedes any local drive or practical financial ability to do so.

Look I get that but a lot of people can work and study remotely. Obviously the lads in construction would find it hard

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Study sure, but work...

If we expect this comp to be serious they will be expected to be training like pros during the season. Double session days would be normal with a field session and a gym or fitness session then treatments, video sessions.

Need some accommodating employers if all I can give you is a couple hours during the day then I'll catch up after hours.

I might be exaggerating somewhat on what it may be but we need this to be more than Tues, Wed, Thurs night field sessions with a game on Saturday.

 

[KentwellCup>ShuteShield]

Thoughts on the structure of this so called "club-centric" 3rd Tier?

 

[Joe King]

Thoughts on the structure of this so called "club-centric" 3rd Tier?

Probably the best model for tribalism and to attract club fans.

Potentially the worst model to strengthen Super Rugby teams.

If they go with this model, I’d like them to finish club comps early to fit it in AND still be able to play a round of Super Rugby AU along side Super Rugby u16s & u19s late Sep-Oct.

This way club championship flows straight into some sort of Super Rugby rep team and hopefully fans flow to. After all, that seems to be the point according to Herbie.

A but if a compromise, but maybe best of both worlds.

 

[Rebel man]

Yawn exactly what’s wrong with rugby. Keep it to the traditional clubs. No wonder the game is a joke here

 

[Highlander35]

Yawn exactly what’s wrong with rugby. Keep it to the traditional clubs. No wonder the game is a joke here

I hope the SRU and to a lesser extent QRU are ready to let big boys die.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Thoughts on the structure of this so called "club-centric" 3rd Tier?

This club based 3rd tier idea combined with centralisation seems to be solely aimed at strengthening the Waratahs. MOWGA - Make Our Waratahs Great Again.

 

[Pfitzy]

Yawn exactly what’s wrong with rugby. Keep it to the traditional clubs. No wonder the game is a joke here

Inventing new entities to contest the last version of the NRC was not bought into in any way by the Sydney clubs.

@Highlander35 said elsewhere: let them in. Let them fail. Then we can get on with whatever's next.

Unless you do that, you sit with the shit sandwich we have, and smile while you eat it.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Inventing new entities to contest the last version of the NRC was not bought into in any way by the Sydney clubs.

@Highlander35 said elsewhere: let them in. Let them fail. Then we can get on with whatever's next.

Unless you do that, you sit with the shit sandwich we have, and smile while you eat it.

I wonder if RA are keeping close tabs on Soccer and their 2nd Tier? 8 Current traditional Clubs around Aus with the intention of it growing to 10 - 12 by 2025. With this 2nd tier or B League as it's being nicknamed it may inevitably see other Clubs in State leagues shrink and fail or fort themselves out to get access.

I'll be interested to see the engagement which I think could surpass A league in at least Sydney and Melbourne. A Sydney FC fan is likely to have an older tie to Sydney Olympic, Marconi or South Melbourne etc... Apia Have said they expect crowds between 4,500-6000 and 7000-8000 for the Derby games.

I know a lot of these Clubs have a bigger footprint than our Rugby Clubs currently but the structure could be something we copy. I'd love to know the application process for this apart from the verbal vomit "Each club demonstrated not only their readiness in terms of operational and commercial elements but also their alignment with the strategic objectives of Australian football,". What metrics are used in assessment? How could RA do the same if the Club approach is one that is being favourited by RA currently. I don't think promotion relegation is a thing for Rugby like Soccer but if Super Rugby is staying for the foreseeable future what do we do below it to get something going as soon as possible?


(No I haven't come down from Super Rugby A hill and using the existing facilities, coaching and making the competition as hard as possible to get into)

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I wonder if RA are keeping close tabs on Soccer and their 2nd Tier? 8 Current traditional Clubs around Aus with the intention of it growing to 10 - 12 by 2025. With this 2nd tier or B League as it's being nicknamed it may inevitably see other Clubs in State leagues shrink and fail or fort themselves out to get access.

I'll be interested to see the engagement which I think could surpass A league in at least Sydney and Melbourne. A Sydney FC fan is likely to have an older tie to Sydney Olympic, Marconi or South Melbourne etc... Apia Have said they expect crowds between 4,500-6000 and 7000-8000 for the Derby games.

I know a lot of these Clubs have a bigger footprint than our Rugby Clubs currently but the structure could be something we copy. I'd love to know the application process for this apart from the verbal vomit "Each club demonstrated not only their readiness in terms of operational and commercial elements but also their alignment with the strategic objectives of Australian football,". What metrics are used in assessment? How could RA do the same if the Club approach is one that is being favourited by RA currently. I don't think promotion relegation is a thing for Rugby like Soccer but if Super Rugby is staying for the foreseeable future what do we do below it to get something going as soon as possible?


(No I haven't come down from Super Rugby A hill and using the existing facilities, coaching and making the competition as hard as possible to get into)

Not that it's my preferred model but if we are going down the club first route then something akin to how FA has done it is probably the most equitable approach from my perspective. Set criteria like those above without the whole 'strategic objective' feel good rubbish and call for bids regardless of who they are. Set a defined number of initial participating licences out front so everyone is aware.

Now I would prefer that to include a guaranteed team from each of Melbourne and Perth geared toward the best local talent from each but if that's not possible then I guess we'll have to deal with that.

So say they determine that they will start with a 10 competition and 2 of those places are guaranteed for Melbourne and Perth. Let the clubs to bid for the other 8. If that means 2 Brisbane, 1 Canberra and 5 Sydney then fine. If that 5 Brisbane and 2 Sydney that's fine as well.

 

[Brumby Runner]

If a club based comp is the next to be tried, then I think it should go full FA style. Start with say 120 clubs, either by invitation as the top clubs in various selected competitions, or by opening participation up to bids, and make it knock out. That's 119 games, spread over say 15 or 20 weeks at 8 or 6 games per week, mid-week during and after the Super Rugby season.

In the early stages, play sides that are close geographically so costs are kept to a minimum. Stronger sides will probably play largely reserves in the early stages but will strengthen their sides as the comp progresses. Good for development of younger players as well as increasing exposure to the game nation-wide through more content for the current broadcaster/streaming service. At the end, crown a National Club Champion.

I should say, however, that my preferred model would be based around Super Rugby 'A' teams supplemented by regional or stronger club teams.

 

[wamberal99]

If a club based comp is the next to be tried, then I think it should go full FA style. Start with say 120 clubs, either by invitation as the top clubs in various selected competitions, or by opening participation up to bids, and make it knock out. That's 119 games, spread over say 15 or 20 weeks at 8 or 6 games per week, mid-week during and after the Super Rugby season.

I should say, however, that my preferred model would be based around Super Rugby 'A' teams supplemented by regional or stronger club teams.

"A" for creativity. But I don't would have any chance of being implemented in practical terms.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Love the concept but there are safety issues in contact sports with this.

Also has the potential to limit the extra games we are after if team get knocked out early they’re done.

It’s a cool fan concept but not a development tool for players.

 

[KentwellCup>ShuteShield]

Would be sick.

We desperately need a good fan product though. I need something to fall back rugby wise when the Wallabies are doing shit.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Love the concept but there are safety issues in contact sports with this.

Also has the potential to limit the extra games we are after if team get knocked out early they’re done.

It’s a cool fan concept but not a development tool for players.

I think that can be said about any form of club based competition, though GoR. Hence, why I prefer something based on the existing Super Rugby sides at the level between club and Super.