Halangahu - Carter - Cross: Worst NSW Midfield Ever?

[Gnostic]

The problem with the NSW back-line is that apart from Beale and Mitchell, it has absolutely zero x-factor in it. Turner has gas to burn but he can't score a try - unless the line is wide open, there's less than 20m to get to it, there's no defense to beat and the ball has been strapped to his hands/chest like a Taliban suicide vest. I haven't seen Cross break the line in any of the games I've seen, Carter bends it but usually not enough to create something for the guys around him and Halagahu has been less than average. Carter is a rock defensively but the rest of the line has the propensity be taken apart by a decent back-line - see Blues/Crusaders.

Any team lining up against the Tahs knows exactly what they are gonna get with them and can confidsently build a defensive pattern to accomodate. That's why I would have had Beale at 10 from the start of the season - give him the ball as much as possible to create.

And do they have any backline moves at all??

AGin with most of this except the Beale at 10 bit. I really am not convinced. His attack from 15 is just excellent as he has the time to survey the field and check his options. At 10 he is just crowded and opts way too much for stupid low percentage kicks.

I also do not know what happened to Lachie Turner. Been infected with the conservative game plans of successive coaches. We used to see tries like this from him, against the Saders no less and from 60M out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsT_rUDhpYE

 

[Jnor]

Gold call Bullrush, one of the best around here lately. I think Turner is simply suffering from a lack of ball and is hence forced to try do something spectacular out of nothing every time he gets it. Although I don't rate him tha highly, I'd say that's also what Halangahu has been sufffering from too, as I think hawko pointed out a few days ago.

Carter's been playing very well the last few rounds and it's probably more down to Cross' lack of form that the ball hasn't been getting much wider. Still, if Carter was more consistent at the offload we might get some better and QUICKER go-forward of his usually pretty effectoove crash ball runs.

Oh, and I'm starting to think Beale really isn't a 10 just yet. He doesn't seem to have the distribution qualities yet (or is it a lack of plays/options?)

 

[fatprop]

Beale is an opportunist, he doesn't try to work sides over.

He doesn't look to put his outsides into a better position.

15 to me is his spot, let him find opportunities and drop into a game.

Let someone else do the everyday stuff.

 

[fatprop]

Turner struggles to beat a defender, always has. His only option is to go to the outside and blow them away with his pace.

That is his limitation, but he is a worker, in the same way as Doug Howlett was.

He chases hard, defends very well, is safe under the high ball, kicks OK and if given space will beat most to the line.

 

[DPK]

Could you do one of those for every player in the Tahs backline? Heck, every Tah? Pretty accurate stuff, fp.

 

[Gagger]

I think they have been trying to add attacking options, but injuries have screwed it up so far.

Barnes is a good organizer with the ability to put runners into space

Horne has that ex-factor as well, and they brought another "stepper" in Bracken-Henry - but they have been wounded.

Agree and there were times last year when I thought Hangers was doing a decent job of it as well.

However I think the bigger problem is the lack of attacking re-alignment and options offered by the backline. Echoing Bullrush, the only move was Mitchell taking the inside ball off his wing.

Otherwise the line is standing flat and stationary. I think this is all part of the Burgess slow ball phenomena - there are bugger all options for him to give it to, unless the forward pod has set up.

It makes me wonder what the backline does while the forwards practise set piece; watch them?

 

[Bowside]

It makes me wonder what the backline does while the forwards practise set piece; watch them?

Marvell at tom carters new hair cut. Now with red highlights!

 

[Groucho]

The problem with the NSW back-line is that apart from Beale and Mitchell, it has absolutely zero x-factor in it. Turner has gas to burn but he can't score a try - unless the line is wide open, there's less than 20m to get to it, there's no defense to beat and the ball has been strapped to his hands/chest like a Taliban suicide vest. I haven't seen Cross break the line in any of the games I've seen, Carter bends it but usually not enough to create something for the guys around him and Halagahu has been less than average. Carter is a rock defensively but the rest of the line has the propensity be taken apart by a decent back-line - see Blues/Crusaders.

Any team lining up against the Tahs knows exactly what they are gonna get with them and can confidsently build a defensive pattern to accomodate. That's why I would have had Beale at 10 from the start of the season - give him the ball as much as possible to create.

And do they have any backline moves at all??

That's hard on Turner. He can't beat a man but he has an outstanding highlights reel: he scored some cracking tries in S14, not least the corker where he leaped high to take a Beale kick out of Dan Carter's hands in a final.

 

[Ali's Choice]

Halangahu is a solid backup first five. In Super rugby, teams generally don't have the luxury of having two world class first fives in their squad. Is he any worse than the backups 10s in the NZ teams?

Crusaders - Berquist
Blues- Luke McAlister
Hurricanes - Daniel Kirpatrick
Chiefs - Mike Delany
Highlanders - Lima Sopoaga

As for Carter, he's the same player he's always been. He's always been an honest, strong, straight running inside centre who make his tackles and gives 100%. And I'm sure as a school boy and at club level, his strength, speed and determination were enough for him to dominate. But at this level, when players are all big and strong, a no.12 needs more feathers in his cap to be really effective. And it's this little bit extra that Carter dosen't have. He lacks the genuine speed or accelaration to allow him to consistently trouble defensive lines, and he lacks the passing and kicking skills that allow him to set up his outside men, or take pressure off his first five.

 

[Gooch]

Highlanders - Tony Brown

 

[ChargerWA]

Halangahu is a solid backup first five. In Super rugby, teams generally don't have the luxury of having two world class first fives in their squad. Is he any worse than the backups 10s in the NZ teams?

Crusaders - Berquist
Blues- Luke McAlister
Hurricanes - Daniel Kirpatrick
Chiefs - Mike Delany
Highlanders - Lima Sopoaga

As for Carter, he's the same player he's always been. He's always been an honest, strong, straight running inside centre who make his tackles and gives 100%. And I'm sure as a school boy and at club level, his strength, speed and determination were enough for him to dominate. But at this level, when players are all big and strong, a no.12 needs more feathers in his cap to be really effective. And it's this little bit extra that Carter dosen't have. He lacks the genuine speed or accelaration to allow him to consistently trouble defensive lines, and he lacks the passing and kicking skills that allow him to set up his outside men, or take pressure off his first five.

I would rate all of those reserves except maybe Berquist and Sopoaga above Halangahu. I haven't seen enough of Berquist to know and Sopoaga is still young and a little bit flakey, but will eventually be a class 5/8 imo.

 

[Ali's Choice]

I think you'll find that Brown is actually the Highlanders 3rd choice first five. Colin Slade was the clear 1st choice and Sopoaga was initially his understudy.

 

[Gooch]

Yeah I know, just being a smart arse. It would be nice to bring in a 5/8 that can run a back line like Brown has for the Clan.

 

[Bullrush]

Turner struggles to beat a defender, always has. His only option is to go to the outside and blow them away with his pace.

That is his limitation, but he is a worker, in the same way as Doug Howlett was.

He chases hard, defends very well, is safe under the high ball, kicks OK and if given space will beat most to the line.

Not even close. Dougie may have actually gotten better as he slowed down. He didn't have the top end pace at the end but the hard work you mention was very effective and he still scored tries.

That's hard on Turner. He can't beat a man but he has an outstanding highlights reel: he scored some cracking tries in S14, not least the corker where he leaped high to take a Beale kick out of Dan Carter's hands in a final.

Maybe it is hard as I'm really going off this season but there's been maybe 3-4 tries that I think he should have scored but didn't.

Halangahu is a solid backup first five. In Super rugby, teams generally don't have the luxury of having two world class first fives in their squad. Is he any worse than the backups 10s in the NZ teams?

Crusaders - Berquist
Blues- Luke McAlister
Hurricanes - Daniel Kirpatrick
Chiefs - Mike Delany
Highlanders - Lima Sopoaga

As for Carter, he's the same player he's always been. He's always been an honest, strong, straight running inside centre who make his tackles and gives 100%. And I'm sure as a school boy and at club level, his strength, speed and determination were enough for him to dominate. But at this level, when players are all big and strong, a no.12 needs more feathers in his cap to be really effective. And it's this little bit extra that Carter dosen't have. He lacks the genuine speed or accelaration to allow him to consistently trouble defensive lines, and he lacks the passing and kicking skills that allow him to set up his outside men, or take pressure off his first five.

Crusaders - Berquist > Halangahu
Blues- Luke McAlister > Halangahu
Hurricanes - Daniel Kirpatrick = Halangahu (or maybe a bit worse) Weepu (when playing) > Halangahu
Chiefs - Mike Delany = Halangahu (maybe a bit better)
Highlanders - Lima Sopoaga.....ummmm Brown has been backing up at the Highlanders and even at 64 yrs old he's better than Halangahu.

Just my opinion....

 

[fatprop]

Agree and there were times last year when I thought Hangers was doing a decent job of it as well.

However I think the bigger problem is the lack of attacking re-alignment and options offered by the backline. Echoing Bullrush, the only move was Mitchell taking the inside ball off his wing.

Absolutely agree, it is down to the receivers to giving the guy with the ball options.

Half the problems with Burgess standing around is that there are no options for the guy.

 

[Jnor]

Agree and there were times last year when I thought Hangers was doing a decent job of it as well.

However I think the bigger problem is the lack of attacking re-alignment and options offered by the backline. Echoing Bullrush, the only move was Mitchell taking the inside ball off his wing.

Otherwise the line is standing flat and stationary. I think this is all part of the Burgess slow ball phenomena - there are bugger all options for him to give it to, unless the forward pod has set up.

It makes me wonder what the backline does while the forwards practise set piece; watch them?

I think this has to be by far the most pertinent question. What on earth are they doing with themselves to appear so completely rudderless in attack? Even with NO coaching you would think they could come up with some more imaginative play.