Halangahu - Carter - Cross: Worst NSW Midfield Ever?

[bartman]

Hangers is just average. He's not a poor player, but he shouldnt be pulling the 10 on for the most populous, financially powerful (well it should be) province in Super Rugby. Couldnt run out of sight on a foggy night, decent enough kicker, a genuine 5'8", someone show this joker the door. He'd do OK for Exeter or Leeds - right up their alley, but not Sydney, NSW.

Carter - for all the lies damned lies and bloody statistics spouted by certain Sydney Uni apologists here, carter is willing but immensely limited. His vertical leap may have increased 20% this season, he might be 12% faster, but the fact is he has poor skills, pace, vision as required / expected by Australian provincial rugby. His limitations may be less complicating to his and his teams cause with a class 10 and 13 either side, but when all three evidence a gross lack of style, guile, genuine pace and ability, youve got problems. I am completely surprised to see Mitchell and Beale doing so well this season outside them.....oh, they consistently do well when 10-13 are on the other side of the field. Ooops.

Cross - just disinterested. Is this guy as vague in real life? I've never seen 10 run AROUND a 13 from set piece like Cooper did last night. Cross showed a gross lack of pace, agility and urgency. How on earth did Hickey think he was a good guy to recruit, after failing spectacularly at the Force?

What a trio of plodders. Some Welsh/Islander/French imports for 2012 please. Sick to death of the Tahs losing for such easily fixable reasons.

Congrats to Tah FR - Kepu you really are coming on, Robbo your getting it back and TPN leaves me speechless. Young lock Peterson will boom under these guys next year and hopefully the Syd U cabal, lead by midget orc Waugh, doesn't prevent the return of Rocky next year.....

 

[qwerty51]

Probably. But I don't agree with your thoughts on Carter. He's been the best Australian 12 this year. JOC (James O'Connor) doesn't count.

Barnes, Carter, Horne is one of the best

Try getting through that.

 

[I like to watch]

Probably. But I don't agree with your thoughts on Carter. He's been the best Australian 12 this year. JOC (James O'Connor) doesn't count.

Barnes, Carter, Horne is one of the best

Try getting through that.

Piece of piss.
Obviously at training when Hickeys tells them to assume their normal position, BB & Horne walk over to the grandstand.

 

[Sully]

But who are they going to get through?

 

[Zeno]

Couldnt run out of sight on a foggy night, decent enough kicker, a genuine 5'8"

No, he's definitely 5'10".

 

[Viking]

HAHAHAHA @Iliketowatch.... Barnes n Horne must be getting pretty comfortable there in the stands lol

 

[Groucho]

The point qwerty51 is trying to make, and it's a valid one, is that the Halangahu - Cross part of the Waratahs midfield is second choice. The first choice midfield is strong both in defence and attack, and as qwerty51 also points out, Carter has been in fine form.

It's true that Barnes and Horne are always injured, but then so are some other key players in other teams. Horwill has spent much of his career off the paddock. Elsom and Pocock haven't been spotted this year. This is unfortunate, and can be a tragedy for the athletes concerned, not a matter for gloating.

Just imagine how much weaker defensively the Reds midfield would be if A Finger broke a leg. Second-string is second-string. You can't expect it to be as strong as the first-string selection.

 

[qwerty51]

Thanks Groucho. That seemed to go right over their heads.

It's only the worst because it's second choice.

 

[bartman]

No, its not second string.

Hangers has spent a considerable amount of time at 10 over the last three seasons, relegating Barnes to 12 last season.

Carter is first choice although there was talk of him and Cross battling it out for the 12 jersey.

Cross, failing to secure 12, would be behind a fit Horne.

In total combination, this is a second choice midfield, but its not as second string as is being made out above.

Bottom line is that Carter and Cross are not athletes, lack vision, die with the ball far too often, cannot pass and cannot kick. They are in the bottom clutch of Super Rugby centres. NSW is a big province with massive resources and players of this standard should not be starting or first choice back-up. if there had been less rodomontade bluster about NSW's squad depth during pre-season-rd.5 , I would be far more forgiving.

 

[bartman]

Groucho,

Your A Finger analogy does not work as a Harris - Iaone centre combo is probably superior. Qld have greater depth, so together with a couple of young fellas, the Reds could field Davies, Morahan on the wings with Lucas at FB.

Two injuries to the Tahs and you are going into an interstate match with a most inferior midfield. This is not acceptable in a province the size of NSW.

 

[bartman]

zeno -

if hangers is 5'10", then I am ooooooohhhhh.....6'6". I think I am 6'2".

 

[Groucho]

Groucho,

Your A Finger analogy does not work as a Harris - Iaone centre combo is probably superior. Qld have greater depth, so together with a couple of young fellas, the Reds could field Davies, Morahan on the wings with Lucas at FB.

Two injuries to the Tahs and you are going into an interstate match with a most inferior midfield. This is not acceptable in a province the size of NSW.

Trying too hard, mate.

 

[qwerty51]

Groucho,

Your A Finger analogy does not work as a Harris - Iaone centre combo is probably superior. Qld have greater depth, so together with a couple of young fellas, the Reds could field Davies, Morahan on the wings with Lucas at FB.

Two injuries to the Tahs and you are going into an interstate match with a most inferior midfield. This is not acceptable in a province the size of NSW.

There are more New South Welshman in the Force, Rebels, Brumbies squads than QLDers.

 

[cyclopath]

zeno -

if hangers is 5'10", then I am ooooooohhhhh.....6'6". I think I am 6'2".

One of my best mates played golf with him the other week. He is 6'1", and he said Hangers was only a little shorter, but pretty solid. I've stood near him at games too, and he would be pretty bloody close to 5'10" I would reckon.

 

[Slash]

One of my best mates played golf with him the other week. He is 6'1", and he said Hangers was only a little shorter, but pretty solid. I've stood near him at games too, and he would be pretty bloody close to 5'10" I would reckon.

I've chatted with hangers at those fan days they do at Moore Park in January when 20 people turn up. I'm bang on 6 foot exactly. And he comes up to my chin.........at best! Lovely bloke, dedicated trainer, is now second string at this level, by a long distance too................unfortunately. Carter is the doyen of the Uni apologists, they'll chuck stats at you for as long as the day is long, but the truth of the matter is that he is not a threat in either attack or defence. He may well be the best 'club man' in the Tahs squad, but he is a liability out there. The issue is that NSWRU have not moved on from when 12 was used a crash ball option only. Most 12s in the comp now are the complete package, quick, strong defenders, elusive, great hands and great kicking game. Why on earth you would have 2 centres who are poor defensive readers and cant (or wont) catch and pass side by side is beyond me. And the young Kingston is being played out of position. He was always a 12 through juniors and school, then 13 later on. Give him a go at 13 I say, atleast his enthusiasm might rub off on those inside him then. Also, other than the penalty attempts and the intercept, was Beale sighted? Maybe his wallet was weighing him down after he took the Rebels cash! Surely now they'll bring Barnes back to 10, put Beale back to 15 and move Turner to the wing for the Rebels game. And the selections for the Tahs will clearly indicate their game plan this week. The Rebels are notorious for leaking early points and soft tries. And the Tahs cant score tries. IMO opinion, if they persist with Carter/Cross then they wont score tries and will play 10 man rugby.If they dont score early and get a good start, they may just get knocked off at home. What a turn around for the Rebels that will be.

 

[ChargerWA]

Kingston in the centres isn't a bad idea. That youthful enthusiasm has worked for a few teams. Sopoanga for the Highlanders was good before he was injured, Patrick Lambie is a superstar, JOC (James O'Connor) at the Force, to a lesser extent Elton Janties. I know three of those four play 10, but having an exciting young player in close to the action can really add to a team.

 

[qwerty51]

Well if you wanna have a go at Carter, you may as well have a go at A Fainga'a too. Those two are exactly the same.

 

[Sully]

Well if you wanna have a go at Carter, you may as well have a go at A Fainga'a too. Those two are exactly the same.

not

 

[Skippy]

Personally I think Carter is a good player... no superstar sure but I actually think if he made the Aus 'wider' squad and spent more time training with Cooper/Genia/Gits etc his skills/knowledge and ability could improve. I see him as a player who has a lot of potential that never been tapped into or unlocked. I think he's been typecast and therefore not given the chance to develop other areas of his game. He is the only genuine crash ball 12 in the country and whilst he is no Horan/Grey etc he bends the defence in attack, is strong defensively and I honestly think he's got a bit more to unlock... maybe not enough to ever play for the Wallabies but you never know.

Re Hangers. Never been a fan. Strikes me a nice bloke... I think he's talented in a way but he's not a top flight Super 15 player and a long way down the pecking order in this country. If I was him I'd go and take a Tongan shirt (Tonga?) for the WC and ask my agent to get me a gig next year in Japan or Italy.

The Waratahs were highly tipped to succeed this season and given it looks like they wont then a clear out is required. We've lost Beale and possibly Mitchell won't figure next season due to his injury. If this means we need to bring in 1 or 2 foreign players for a season or two whilst we develop another 10 from within the NSW ranks then so be it.

I personally think To'omua would be a good purchase for NSW... not sure when his contract's up. I also think they should try and sign Kingi as a 9 (again not sure of his contract with the Rebels). I for one beleive 'one' of the many problems within NSW rugby is the constant failure to sign the right young talent and I'm sick of seeing so many NSW succeed elsewhere.

 

[Brumbies Guy]

Well if you wanna have a go at Carter, you may as well have a go at A Fainga'a too. Those two are exactly the same.

To be fair I can't see what you can base this on. IMO Anthony Fainga'a is a far more skilled and accomplished player than Carter. Tom is 4 years older and to date his rugby achievements have really only extended to Sydney Uni's success in the Shute Shield. Admittedly though, Tom is in career best form this season, and like Ant for the Reds, is a linchpin in the Tah's midfield. Carter's other noting accomplishment has been his longevity in Super caps; though had it not been for Anthony's long injury spell at the Brumbies after making his debut the two would be pretty even.

On the other hand Anthony at a junior level has captained Australia Schoolboys, captained and kicked the drop goal which won the U19 Junior World Cup, and represented Australia U21. In Super rugby he has established himself as a starter at two Australian franchises, and at an international level has represented both Australia A and the Wallabies.

Obviously selectors at the higher levels throughout have acknowledge Anthony's ability for him to have progressed through the ranks, whereas it would seem they, including Eddie Jones as below, have had a differing opinion of Tom.

Carter reveals in this week's Waratahs-Force program that he met Jones at a Sevens camp some years ago. Jones told Carter "in no uncertain terms that I was never going to make it in the game because I was too slow, too small and had no skill." Carter said.

We'll he isn't too small anymore, I'll give him that one.