Graph of player numbers in each RWC nation

[matty_k]

This is a pretty interesting graphic depicting the number of players in each RWC country versus the number of senior males.

Some interesting and surprising statistics.

Sourced from Rugby Magazine.

Australia has a far higher retention of senior males than NZ.

 

[potogold]

what does senior males mean?? like at club rugby and upwards towards pro??

 

[Lee Grant]

I take it that senior males means all males playing Grade or subbies - or, in other words, anything above Colts. Registered social players would be included too.

I don't know how they distinguish between a Colt who ends up playing in Grade since the figures are probably taken from annual registrations. Any officials from clubland know?

England senior male rugby players 167K. Total population of Tonga 104K (about the same number as RSA senior male players).

Oz fights above their weight but not as well as NZ - although there seems to be a statistical discrepancy between the ratio of senior males to total players between Oz and NZ. Both compare well in fighting weight to the giants - England, RSA and France but not as well as Tonga and other countries with small rugby populations.

How does NZ do better than us with a smaller number of senior men, (and they always have had fewer)?

There are many reasons but one is their National Provincial Championship, to give it it's generic name. Until we have our own domestic comp at the same level, and the rugby infrastructure needed to grow that (and especially a national coaching network) we will always be looking for one-off wins against them unless we have the careers of great Wallabies aligning every now and then.

No need to talk about an ARC in this thread but there is much more to come out of it than we think. After 10 years of maturity we will see salutary effects beyond our fondest hopes.

 

[Richo]

What this graph tells me is that the US will likely be quite good at rugby quite soon. They have a large and growing player pool, good retention rates and with more and more attention being paid to the dangers of American football there are going to be a lot of kids shunted towards rugby as the less brutal of contact sports. They have a pro comp starting in a few years, or so I'm told, which can only help. They also have a potentially powerful development network in the NCAA (college sports).

While the last thing I want is America to be good at yet another sport, I can't help but think this would be good for rugby... Right?

 

[Rev Spooner]

Jesus H Christ - England's like fucking Jupiter on that graph.

 

[teach]

There is an ever increasing number of american colleges offering rugby scholarships. Imagine if they tapped into their massive Samoan population base.
From what I understand, in the past the American RFU have targeted College age players who have not made the cut at that level, offering them another sport.
We have had a few casual enquiries at school about hosting American high schools on tours of NZ. So it is starting to grow. We already host UK and Aussie based teams. We just had 2 Chilean teams play our 1st and 2nd XVs last weekend.

 

[Antony]

England...
Senior men's players: 166,762
Outside-centre: Tindall.

Really?

 

[Antony]

We just had 2 Chilean teams play our 1st and 2nd XVs last weekend.

How did the Chileans go?

 

[Rob42]

...How does NZ do better than us with a smaller number of senior men, (and they always have had fewer)?...

But they do have a greater total number of players, so presumably they have a better base of players to select from when it comes to the late teens and going on to senior rep teams. I guess they lose a lot of guys who in Australia might stay on as social senior players - perhaps due to Saturday afternoon weather in NZ compared to Australia...

But I'd love to see the ARC back too. Seeing that "You don't know me...yet" promo should be all the explanation we need.

 

[EVERYFWDTHINKTHEYREA6OR7]

There is an ever increasing number of american colleges offering rugby scholarships. Imagine if they tapped into their massive Samoan population base.
From what I understand, in the past the American RFU have targeted College age players who have not made the cut at that level, offering them another sport.
We have had a few casual enquiries at school about hosting American high schools on tours of NZ. So it is starting to grow. We already host UK and Aussie based teams. We just had 2 Chilean teams play our 1st and 2nd XVs last weekend.

Yeah the amount of atheletes after college they could tap into is immense. It's great for them to tap into them being forwards. I do however believe they need to get their skills up early for backline type players.

 

[saulih]

What this graph tells me is that the US will likely be quite good at rugby quite soon. They have a large and growing player pool, good retention rates and with more and more attention being paid to the dangers of American football there are going to be a lot of kids shunted towards rugby as the less brutal of contact sports. They have a pro comp starting in a few years, or so I'm told, which can only help. They also have a potentially powerful development network in the NCAA (college sports).

While the last thing I want is America to be good at yet another sport, I can't help but think this would be good for rugby... Right?

Absolutely fantastic for rugby. With growth in the American market comes the possibility of tapping the wealth of TV rights. Unlike the Australian market, people here in the US are willing to pay for TV, and the money in it is huge. To break that market though, the sport needs to become much larger than it is now. Remember that the population of the US is approx 300 million, and 80,000 players is like a drop in the bucket.

It is interesting that you said that rugby would be considered the less brutal of the NFL and Rugby. I can tell you that that is not the widely held view. Yanks consider rugby players to be brutes because they do not wear padding or armor. I don't know how many times I have heard that comment, and while I don't have any hard facts to dismiss them with, I do what I can to reassure them that it is not a game where players can indiscriminately harm others.

What is true though, is that are masses of players that did not make the cut either at HS level, or at College level. In football (ie gridiron) there is no other outlet for these players to continue at club level or socially. the vast majority of players become spectators in HS or college, and a great number have potential to be good rugby players. I have heard that a number of programs try to convert these players to the heaven's game, and are quite successful at it.

It is only a matter of time. I cannot tell you the number of people (different group of people to the 'rugby is brutish' lot I mentioned above), who love the game. Their usual comment is about how free flowing the game is, unlike the stop/start nature of NFL that begins to bore people.

 

[Bullrush]

Yeah the amount of atheletes after college they could tap into is immense. It's great for them to tap into them being forwards. I do however believe they need to get their skills up early for backline type players.

When you see the athleticism and speed of some the NFL players, it's scary to think what they would do on a rugby field. The biggest challenge though is getting your head around how different the two sports really are.

I play both games and it took a good couple of years to really start to 'get' gridiron and understand how to really play it.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

In my backpacking days I found myself in a bar with a couple of Yanks and watched a game from start to finish of American Football.

It's a bloody great game & once you start to look at it like a game of Chess, it's fantastic to watch. The athletic ability of the running backs and the size and ferocity of the linebackers is awesome once you appreciate what they are looking to do.

If you've ever wondered how it works, watch a full game with a couple of passionate fans. By the time you get to the end, you'll get it. Especially, if like me, you are partial to the odd rugby game which the media (spit) will desribe as an arm wrestle.

 

[chequebalance]

No Argies??

 

[matty_k]

No Argies??

That's what the little disclaimer at the bottom right says.

 

[chequebalance]

Thanks (no eyesight)

 

[matty_k]

I didn't notice it until you pointed out that there was no Argentina.

 

[Wato]

Yeah the amount of atheletes after college they could tap into is immense. It's great for them to tap into them being forwards. I do however believe they need to get their skills up early for backline type players.

So they need to start teaching kids how to knock on and run over the sideline from an early age?

 

[teach]

How did the Chileans go?

Great games. They got smashed by our firsts and but just squeaked past our seconds. Very savvy as far as short lineouts and fake jumpers, but did not like a tight game, with runners hitting it up or rolling mauls. They loved to run it in the backs. Our 2nds tried to spin the ball all day and lost the first half. When they finally settled down and started hitting it up, the gaps appeared, but too little to late. Good for our lads to take a spanish speaking billet for the night.

My youngest is loving his intro to high school rugby. He has played Ozzies, Poms and Chileans. Possibly a japanese team next year. And his team got 3rd in the South Island U15 invitational, so he is chuffed, as am I since I actually coached him as well.

 

[Antony]

They loved to run it in the backs.

Fascinating, that. Obviously a couple of high-school teams can't speak for an entire rugby culture, but you'd think the trend might have been to take their cues from how the argies play it (i.e. delete 'they loved to run it in the', and put a question mark after 'backs?'). But I'm probably revealing my ignorance of the south american geopolitical scene here.

I really love seeing how even small rugby nations have developed distinct styles, like the forward-play of the eastern europeans, and the insanity of the namibians. Good form. What a sport.